The One And Only Offseason Thread 2

[sdballer]

I'm sorry, are you under the impression that one of us is Ryan McDonough? We're not, but just for the record if he thinks Thomas is worth a big deal I'm taking his scouting over yours every day. I don't care how many Kings games you've watched.

82games.com shows the Kings were much better defensively when Thomas was on the court.

Part of that is that the Kings didn't really have a backup pg besides a 2nd rounder who only came on in the last couple weeks. And part of that is that advanced stats like defensive win shares don't always tell the whole story.

But by all means, sign him to a big deal and then see for yourself.

Are you new to fan forums? All we do is talk about stuff we are barely qualified to discuss. And for the record, David Kahn had the same kind of job.

Besides, I'm not suggesting IT would be a horrible signing. Only disputing the fact that someone said he was a good defender.

He is what he is. A gutsy, undersized, defensively-challenged scoring pg. If you could surround him with good defenders (something the Kings couldn't), that would help. But he can be a ball stopper and selfish scorer so he's best suited as a 6th man that can focus on scoring.

[bwgood77]

And this Bledsoe stuff didn't just start after he got injured, as soon as we got him people were talking about flipping him in another trade and talking about what we could get for him down the line.

I don't remember that at all.
What I remember is some posters suggesting to flip Dragic as well as the rest of the '13 holdovers to start clean...

Yeah, I thought many thought Dragic might be traded and then he blossomed.

[LukasBMW]

Wow! What a difference from the past few years of ownership and management. We are now ALMOST back to the glory days when the Colangelos owned/managed the team and we made (mostly) smart moves.

Ryan McDonough is brilliant.

-If we can pickup Thomas cheap, he becomes another asset.
-It also will make a enemy team think twice about maxing up Beldsoe. (Do we really want to offer this guy a max deal given that the Suns just picked up a possible replacement? Will we be left holding the bag on a max PG with knee problems?)
-Even if we do max up Bledsoe, Thomas will keep the pressure on him to perform.
-If both perform, maybe we ship out Thomas, maybe we ship out Bledsoe, it gives us options.
-Maybe a bench of Thomas, Goodwin, and Green becomes the most dangerous slashing and shooting bench 1-3 in the NBA?

We need to fill out our roster and we may as well fill it out with reasonably priced guys who have potential to grow.

[SunsFanSSOL]

And this Bledsoe stuff didn't just start after he got injured, as soon as we got him people were talking about flipping him in another trade and talking about what we could get for him down the line.

I don't remember that at all.
What I remember is some posters suggesting to flip Dragic as well as the rest of the '13 holdovers to start clean...

As soon as we didn't reach an extension with him by the November deadline, I recall some people were suggesting we trade him if he wanted more than $10m/yr.

[AtheJ415]

David Kahn was bad at his job. McDonough isn't. I'm not saying that because McDonough is a GM--I'm saying that because McDonough is a good GM. The post you were referring to was made by me. I wasn't saying he's a good defender--I was saying he's not the death-knell to our defense that some are suggesting.

I'm sorry, are you under the impression that one of us is Ryan McDonough? We're not, but just for the record if he thinks Thomas is worth a big deal I'm taking his scouting over yours every day. I don't care how many Kings games you've watched.

Part of that is that the Kings didn't really have a backup pg besides a 2nd rounder who only came on in the last couple weeks. And part of that is that advanced stats like defensive win shares don't always tell the whole story.

But by all means, sign him to a big deal and then see for yourself.

Are you new to fan forums? All we do is talk about stuff we are barely qualified to discuss. And for the record, David Kahn had the same kind of job.

Besides, I'm not suggesting IT would be a horrible signing. Only disputing the fact that someone said he was a good defender.

He is what he is. A gutsy, undersized, defensively-challenged scoring pg. If you could surround him with good defenders (something the Kings couldn't), that would help. But he can be a ball stopper and selfish scorer so he's best suited as a 6th man that can focus on scoring.

[AtheJ415]

Either way--point being, I think Thomas is undervalued overall in free agency so far. He put up an efficient 20 and 6 as a young player, and he's been shown very little interest. This is the type of guy Phoenix should target because they can probably get him at a discount.

David Kahn was bad at his job. McDonough isn't. I'm not saying that because McDonough is a GM--I'm saying that because McDonough is a good GM. The post you were referring to was made by me. I wasn't saying he's a good defender--I was saying he's not the death-knell to our defense that some are suggesting.

I'm sorry, are you under the impression that one of us is Ryan McDonough? We're not, but just for the record if he thinks Thomas is worth a big deal I'm taking his scouting over yours every day. I don't care how many Kings games you've watched.

Are you new to fan forums? All we do is talk about stuff we are barely qualified to discuss. And for the record, David Kahn had the same kind of job.

Besides, I'm not suggesting IT would be a horrible signing. Only disputing the fact that someone said he was a good defender.

He is what he is. A gutsy, undersized, defensively-challenged scoring pg. If you could surround him with good defenders (something the Kings couldn't), that would help. But he can be a ball stopper and selfish scorer so he's best suited as a 6th man that can focus on scoring.

[JTrain]

UNBELIEVABLE!! http://www.lebronjames.com

[Sunsss]

I think Thomas wants starter role and $10m salary. So I really wonder what McD is up to.

[gaspar]

Some of you guys must really hate Bledsoe. Every post it's some different proposal about how to get rid of him, how we should sign and trade him, and now people thinking it's a good idea to let him walk for Isaiah Thomas. Isaiah Freaking Thomas? Next you're going to tell me we should sign and trade him for Ersan Ilyasova? Oh wait, that idea already came up.

And this Bledsoe stuff didn't just start after he got injured, as soon as we got him people were talking about flipping him in another trade and talking about what we could get for him down the line. It's inexplicable. Teams would love to have a player like Bledsoe, that's why we're talking about him getting the max, and why we're talking about Thomas getting 1/3rd of that. The only explanation I can come up with is that some fans are so strongly enamored with Dragic that they find Bledsoe threatening to Dragic's future with the Suns.

Bingo!

[AtheJ415]

This, which I'll never get. Dragic and Bledsoe were arguably the best backcourt in basketball last year when Bledsoe was healthy. The idea that you can't invest max money in both is misguided. With a salary cap expected to rise to 80 million in a few years, you can max out both at their current max qualifiers and field a great team so long as you have enough guys on rookie or cheap deals at other positions. With our amount of draft picks that seems pretty easy to accomplish.

Some of you guys must really hate Bledsoe. Every post it's some different proposal about how to get rid of him, how we should sign and trade him, and now people thinking it's a good idea to let him walk for Isaiah Thomas. Isaiah Freaking Thomas? Next you're going to tell me we should sign and trade him for Ersan Ilyasova? Oh wait, that idea already came up.

And this Bledsoe stuff didn't just start after he got injured, as soon as we got him people were talking about flipping him in another trade and talking about what we could get for him down the line. It's inexplicable. Teams would love to have a player like Bledsoe, that's why we're talking about him getting the max, and why we're talking about Thomas getting 1/3rd of that. The only explanation I can come up with is that some fans are so strongly enamored with Dragic that they find Bledsoe threatening to Dragic's future with the Suns.

Bingo!

[spanishninja]

This, which I'll never get. Dragic and Bledsoe were arguably the best backcourt in basketball last year when Bledsoe was healthy. The idea that you can't invest max money in both is misguided. With a salary cap expected to rise to 80 million in a few years, you can max out both at their current max qualifiers and field a great team so long as you have enough guys on rookie or cheap deals at other positions. With our amount of draft picks that seems pretty easy to accomplish.

Some of you guys must really hate Bledsoe. Every post it's some different proposal about how to get rid of him, how we should sign and trade him, and now people thinking it's a good idea to let him walk for Isaiah Thomas. Isaiah Freaking Thomas? Next you're going to tell me we should sign and trade him for Ersan Ilyasova? Oh wait, that idea already came up.

And this Bledsoe stuff didn't just start after he got injured, as soon as we got him people were talking about flipping him in another trade and talking about what we could get for him down the line. It's inexplicable. Teams would love to have a player like Bledsoe, that's why we're talking about him getting the max, and why we're talking about Thomas getting 1/3rd of that. The only explanation I can come up with is that some fans are so strongly enamored with Dragic that they find Bledsoe threatening to Dragic's future with the Suns.

Bingo!

I'm not one of those fans. I think the reason we're rather polarized about what to do with Bledsoe is that this past season was somewhat of an incomplete for him. And the rest of the league feels the same way, allowing McD to use this as an advantage. Assuming there's anything substantial going on here with Thomas, this is some real cerebral stuff that's about to happen right now.

The biggest thing that occurred to me with the Tucker signing is: "I thought we were supposed to make retaining Bledsoe our first priority this offseason!"

[AtheJ415]

Definitely. It's uncomfortable to give a max contract to a guy who only started pieces of a season. The advantage of RFA though is that we only have to match the best offer by another team. We'll see what LAL and Miami do if they don't land their top targets, but I believe nobody with the ability to offer a max deal has shown interest so far.

This, which I'll never get. Dragic and Bledsoe were arguably the best backcourt in basketball last year when Bledsoe was healthy. The idea that you can't invest max money in both is misguided. With a salary cap expected to rise to 80 million in a few years, you can max out both at their current max qualifiers and field a great team so long as you have enough guys on rookie or cheap deals at other positions. With our amount of draft picks that seems pretty easy to accomplish.

Bingo!

I'm not one of those fans. I think the reason we're rather polarized about what to do with Bledsoe is that this past season was somewhat of an incomplete for him. And the rest of the league feels the same way, allowing McD to use this as an advantage. Assuming there's anything substantial going on here with Thomas, this is some real cerebral stuff that's about to happen right now.

The biggest thing that occurred to me with the Tucker signing is: "I thought we were supposed to make retaining Bledsoe our first priority this offseason!"

[gaspar]

I'd like to remind everyone that Dragic will be an unrestricted free agent next summer and it's not a foregone conclusion that he will re-sign with the Suns even for $15M per year. He will have a lot of suitors.

[sunskerr]

Does anyone want to mock up something really quick on how we could potentially allocate minutes between Dragic, Bledsoe and Thomas (including other bench players too of course)?

I think Thomas would be a bargain if he could be had for cheap.

[TASTIC]

Wow! What a difference from the past few years of ownership and management. We are now ALMOST back to the glory days when the Colangelos owned/managed the team and we made (mostly) smart moves.

Ryan McDonough is brilliant.

-If we can pickup Thomas cheap, he becomes another asset.
-It also will make a enemy team think twice about maxing up Beldsoe. (Do we really want to offer this guy a max deal given that the Suns just picked up a possible replacement? Will we be left holding the bag on a max PG with knee problems?)
-Even if we do max up Bledsoe, Thomas will keep the pressure on him to perform.
-If both perform, maybe we ship out Thomas, maybe we ship out Bledsoe, it gives us options.
-Maybe a bench of Thomas, Goodwin, and Green becomes the most dangerous slashing and shooting bench 1-3 in the NBA?

We need to fill out our roster and we may as well fill it out with reasonably priced guys who have potential to grow.

Bro you just wrote exactly what I was thinking!

And in terms of the bench unit, I still think that Ryan Anderson for Green + a pick deal might be on the table still...

Bledsoe is waiting for a max...and I don't think it's coming. Other teams have to be slightly weary that we haven't made an offer (publicly at least), especially pairing his injury history with our med staff.

The other theory is we're covering our butts for a Dragic/Love deal, I wonder if MIN wants to attach Kevin Martin too and Thomas is signed as the 6th man/Bledsoe insurance?

Plumlee
Love
Tucker
KMart
Bledsoe
------
Thomas
Goodwin
Green
Kieff
Warren
Ennis

I'm assuming MIN would ask for Len too, along with picks and Mook as a throw in? We'd need some FA help at C, Jordan Hill would be ideal rebounding next to Love - dude grabbed 7+ Rebs in only 20min!

Have to love a front office that keeps it's mouth shut.

[Revived]

**** yeah. Much better. At this point, if Bledsoe gets offered $16M a year and McD lets him walk without matching, I might commend him for having the balls to do so. Not many would have the balls to do so. But that is an absurd overpayment for what he has accomplished in his career and how often he is on the injury list. IT at $5 would be a super bargain.

Lol yes because the 6'1 build like a truck Bledsoe has a higher chance of getting injured and missing games going forward than the 5'9 scrawny Thomas right?

Your the type of guy who would rather pay 'Melo $10M and take him than pay LeBron $20M+.

Are you just in total denial that Bledsoe is and has been a huge injury risk?

Lol yes I'm in denial that must be why I acknowledged his injury trouble in this thread

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1323186

[Revived]

**** yeah. Much better. At this point, if Bledsoe gets offered $16M a year and McD lets him walk without matching, I might commend him for having the balls to do so. Not many would have the balls to do so. But that is an absurd overpayment for what he has accomplished in his career and how often he is on the injury list. IT at $5 would be a super bargain.

Lol yes because the 6'1 build like a truck Bledsoe has a higher chance of getting injured and missing games going forward than the 5'9 scrawny Thomas right?

Your the type of guy who would rather pay 'Melo $10M and take him than pay LeBron $20M+.

I'd happily pay either of those guys those prices. Well, Bledsoe has torn his meniscus twice already at an early age. Every time you tear it the torn part must be cut out. Roy tore his a third time RIGHT after getting a huge contract and was done after that. People kept denying he was done but that didn't help. People keep saying Bledsoe's injuries are not that big of deal. Smart on the Suns part to SAY that, but it's certainly not stupid to consider trading him or not investing a ton of cash in him. It might be a little different if we didn't already have Dragic too.

Your acting as if there is a rule that says "WE MUST HAVE TWO POINT GUARDS IN THE LINEUP".

Bledsoe-Dragic worked because Bledsoe is great defensively and Dragic is great offensively.

Dragic-Thomas WON'T WORK because they may both be great offensively but they both suck defensively.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Even if you don't want Bledsoe back at the max (I don't either so I'm with you on this one) then let's get a 3 & D SG not a short PG who can't play D.

[Revived]

Some of you guys must really hate Bledsoe. Every post it's some different proposal about how to get rid of him, how we should sign and trade him, and now people thinking it's a good idea to let him walk for Isaiah Thomas. Isaiah Freaking Thomas? Next you're going to tell me we should sign and trade him for Ersan Ilyasova? Oh wait, that idea already came up.

And this Bledsoe stuff didn't just start after he got injured, as soon as we got him people were talking about flipping him in another trade and talking about what we could get for him down the line. It's inexplicable. Teams would love to have a player like Bledsoe, that's why we're talking about him getting the max, and why we're talking about Thomas getting 1/3rd of that. The only explanation I can come up with is that some fans are so strongly enamored with Dragic that they find Bledsoe threatening to Dragic's future with the Suns.

On point man.

There's a reason why Kings fan are jerking off to the idea of them getting Bledsoe in a sign and trade for Isaiah Thomas.

You think if he's as good as everyone else here thinks he is then they would be doin that? No.

Its hilarious that people are comparing Dragic and Bledsoe to Thomas. Lets start comparing Tucker to Durant then. Dragic to Magic and Green to Jordan. Sure those comparisons are even more ridiculous but their all ridiculous.

[Fo-Real]

In a year when it is decided that we cant get a big name free agent now we have extra money...So we sign PJ Tucker to a front-loaded deal that doesnt hurt its on the 2nd or 3rd year. If we can also ink IsaiahThomas to a front loaded deal it can only help us going forward since this year anyway is a waste of money... why not waste money on good investments... bottom line if we actually intend to use Thomas as a third guard off the bench our attack will be absolutely f****** relentless. A true guard driven system.... no rest defensivly for any team playing against us. Ish was hit or miss.... Thomas is a dynamo. I know we drafted a pg, but how manny guys come in as rooks drafted in the late teens and is a contributor??? Much like the Nash years... a way to make substandard bigs look better is to have superior guard play. As long as its not for starter money... HELL FU#$!NG YES I would sign Thomas if you get him at the price you want. RELENTLESS WITH THOSE THREE GUYS..... Thats not even counting hilight reel Gerald Green and up incoming Archie Goodwin..... RELENTLESS..... Any good big man play only adds to the soup. If the front office is serious about keeping all 3.... Jeff will have a serious engine for the hotrod!!! Guards makd it go.... and those 3 would make for the best in the league as a whole!!!

[ruiner]

We're not dealing Bledsoe unless it's for a star or big trade. We're not signing Thomas unless we have something lined up. or really cheap. Definitely not swapping the two. Kings fans can jerk off at the dream of it all happening. but it'll be shattered.


People are always gonna talk about dealing one cuz of logistics of keeping both at high price money can't work. Just how it is. And from sound of it, Suns are wary of Bledsoe enough to potentially shop him or only seemingly commit to a certain price (so much so Thomas is being brought in at least for a visit). That and/or feel more comfortable with Dragic, with being able to keep him or they're more willing to go high price for him after an all nba type season.