The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread

[chabber]

Do people really think that if we offer 2/20 for a guy like Deng, who has the exact same offer on the table from Miami, that he would pass on South Beach, for us?

We have to overpay, that's the way it is.

The annual salary sucks and is an overpayment, but the 2 year deal, actually maintains our flexibility.

If both Henderson+Jefferson pick up their player options, their deals and Marvin's will expire at the same time, giving us 27.5m in cap room, just in time for MKG's new deal and the vaunted FA class of 2016.

As long as Jefferson has a half decent season, he's not picking up that option. Looking at the signings so far, and assuming this is now a trend, there's little to no chance Al Jefferson doesn't land a huge contract next summer. The way things are, Henderson could probably have landed himself a 4/32 deal somewhere this summer. Wouldn't completely surprise me if he opted out next summer.

Exactly, I already read on the Miami board some posters there were hoping they could poach him from us. As long as he doesn't get injured, If Jefferson has a brain, he will opt out.

[Liver_Pooty]

Do people really think that if we offer 2/20 for a guy like Deng, who has the exact same offer on the table from Miami, that he would pass on South Beach, for us?

We have to overpay, that's the way it is.

The annual salary sucks and is an overpayment, but the 2 year deal, actually maintains our flexibility.

If both Henderson+Jefferson pick up their player options, their deals and Marvin's will expire at the same time, giving us 27.5m in cap room, just in time for MKG's new deal and the vaunted FA class of 2016.

Good point about the class of 2016.

We're going all in on a 2 year window with Al.

Marvin has experienced Alfense, and knows what it is about.

We get our backup SF who offers a different dimension to MKG.

We add experience to the PF rotation.

We maintain future flexibility.

I still think Zeller can beat him out for that starting spot.

[Elden Payton]

Do people really think that if we offer 2/20 for a guy like Deng, who has the exact same offer on the table from Miami, that he would pass on South Beach, for us?

We have to overpay, that's the way it is.

The annual salary sucks and is an overpayment, but the 2 year deal, actually maintains our flexibility.

If both Henderson+Jefferson pick up their player options, their deals and Marvin's will expire at the same time, giving us 27.5m in cap room, just in time for MKG's new deal and the vaunted FA class of 2016.

I'd like to think we'll resign Kemba too, but I don't know...he didn't go to UNC.

We'll re-sign Kemba but not for as much as people think imo.

[Elden Payton]

Good point about the class of 2016.

We're going all in on a 2 year window with Al.

Marvin has experienced Alfense, and knows what it is about.

We get our backup SF who offers a different dimension to MKG.

We add experience to the PF rotation.

We maintain future flexibility.

I still think Zeller can beat him out for that starting spot.

I really hope he can, but worst case, Williams is decent enough insurance for a stretch four.

[Liver_Pooty]

Do people really think that if we offer 2/20 for a guy like Deng, who has the exact same offer on the table from Miami, that he would pass on South Beach, for us?

We have to overpay, that's the way it is.

The annual salary sucks and is an overpayment, but the 2 year deal, actually maintains our flexibility.

If both Henderson+Jefferson pick up their player options, their deals and Marvin's will expire at the same time, giving us 27.5m in cap room, just in time for MKG's new deal and the vaunted FA class of 2016.

As long as Jefferson has a half decent season, he's not picking up that option. Looking at the signings so far, and assuming this is now a trend, there's little to no chance Al Jefferson doesn't land a huge contract next summer. The way things are, Henderson could probably have landed himself a 4/32 deal somewhere this summer. Wouldn't completely surprise me if he opted out next summer.

Exactly, I already read on the Miami board some posters there were hoping they could poach him from us. As long as he doesn't get injured, If Jefferson has a brain, he will opt out.

If Jefferson comes even close to being an All NBA performer next season hes going to opt out and get the max from someone, and Im not sure if we will be able to keep him.

With that being said Zeller, Vonleh, and Biyombo better get it together because life without Al might be painful.

[Liver_Pooty]

We're going all in on a 2 year window with Al.

Marvin has experienced Alfense, and knows what it is about.

We get our backup SF who offers a different dimension to MKG.

We add experience to the PF rotation.

We maintain future flexibility.

I still think Zeller can beat him out for that starting spot.

I really hope he can, but worst case, Williams is decent enough insurance for a stretch four.

I do like the signing as a formidable backup at the forward spots, and although im sure this will piss plenty of people off, hes a much better overall player than Tolliver.

[BeesWax]

Good point about the class of 2016.

We're going all in on a 2 year window with Al.

Marvin has experienced Alfense, and knows what it is about.

We get our backup SF who offers a different dimension to MKG.

We add experience to the PF rotation.

We maintain future flexibility.

I still think Zeller can beat him out for that starting spot.

Williams provides what Clifford craves at every position but C and that is he can hit from outside. He stretches the floor. I think Williams starts at PF and gets about 24 minutes there while the other two guys split what is left. Then he plays some minutes at backup SF to get to around 30 a game.

[Elden Payton]

I still think Zeller can beat him out for that starting spot.

I really hope he can, but worst case, Williams is decent enough insurance for a stretch four.

I do like the signing as a formidable backup at the forward spots, and although im sure this will piss plenty of people off, hes a much better overall player than Tolliver.

Great minds LP.

[Liver_Pooty]

We're going all in on a 2 year window with Al.

Marvin has experienced Alfense, and knows what it is about.

We get our backup SF who offers a different dimension to MKG.

We add experience to the PF rotation.

We maintain future flexibility.

I still think Zeller can beat him out for that starting spot.

Williams provides what Clifford craves at every position but C and that is he can hit from outside. He stretches the floor. I think Williams starts at PF and gets about 24 minutes there while the other two guys split what is left. Then he plays some minutes at backup SF to get to around 30 a game.

Clifford also likes a half decent passer from the high post, and that is something Williams is absolutely horrific at. We will see how it works out. Now that I;ve had some time to look over the signing and relax I kind of like it.

[mrknowitall215]

Well, the advanced stats read that Marvin Williams was a worst defender than Gordon Hayward, but a much better component for the Jazz' offense. I can see how that would send a light bulb to Cho's head. It appears that the fact that Cho overvalued Hayward that it allowed him to contrast Williams alongside him and miscalculate on him too

[EwingSweatsALot]

Did he play mainly PF for the Jazz last year? I have no idea.

Yea he started at PF, but the other bigs on the team were centers, the 2nd best PF was Jeremy Evans so Marvin was really their only option

No wonder they were one of the worst teams in the league. Starting Marvin Williams at PF was all a part of the tanking strategy. I'm about to go do some statistical research to see how the team fared with him on/off the court

Per 82 games

on/off: +6.3 for offense, +2.7 for defense which comes to +3.6 overall.

eFG% was up 3% with him on the court
Rebounding was awful, -3.2% when he was on the court vs off

ESPN's real plus minus has him at an overall of -.07.

[JDR720]

Williams will be MKG's backup at the SF for about 15 mins and play PF for about 10

[BeesWax]

I still think Zeller can beat him out for that starting spot.

Williams provides what Clifford craves at every position but C and that is he can hit from outside. He stretches the floor. I think Williams starts at PF and gets about 24 minutes there while the other two guys split what is left. Then he plays some minutes at backup SF to get to around 30 a game.

Clifford also likes a half decent passer from the high post, and that is something Williams is absolutely horrific at. We will see how it works out. Now that I;ve had some time to look over the signing and relax I kind of like it.

Problem is we don't have any really good passers from the high post at PF. What he may do is use Williams to stretch the floor and run MKG out of the high post. Seems like a perfect fit to me in that sense.

[Liver_Pooty]

Yea he started at PF, but the other bigs on the team were centers, the 2nd best PF was Jeremy Evans so Marvin was really their only option

No wonder they were one of the worst teams in the league. Starting Marvin Williams at PF was all a part of the tanking strategy. I'm about to go do some statistical research to see how the team fared with him on/off the court

Per 82 games

on/off: +6.3 for offense, +2.7 for defense which comes to +3.6 overall.

eFG% was up 3% with him on the court
Rebounding was awful, -3.2% when he was on the court vs off

ESPN's real plus minus has him at an overall of -.07.

That rebounding is atrocious. Then again McRoberts wasn't a very good rebounder either, but still..

[Liver_Pooty]

Williams provides what Clifford craves at every position but C and that is he can hit from outside. He stretches the floor. I think Williams starts at PF and gets about 24 minutes there while the other two guys split what is left. Then he plays some minutes at backup SF to get to around 30 a game.

Clifford also likes a half decent passer from the high post, and that is something Williams is absolutely horrific at. We will see how it works out. Now that I;ve had some time to look over the signing and relax I kind of like it.

Problem is we don't have any really good passers from the high post at PF. What he may do is use Williams to stretch the floor and run MKG out of the high post. Seems like a perfect fit to me in that sense.

Id love to see MKG work out of the high post.

[BeesWax]

Well, the advanced stats read that Marvin Williams was a worst defender than Gordon Hayward, but a much better component for the Jazz' offense. I can see how that would send a light bulb to Cho's head. It appears that the fact that Cho overvalued Hayward that it allowed him to contrast Williams alongside him and miscalculate on him too

Yet he had a better defensive real plus minus than Lance. Not saying it means anything but just threw it out there.

[EwingSweatsALot]

I still think Zeller can beat him out for that starting spot.

I really hope he can, but worst case, Williams is decent enough insurance for a stretch four.

I do like the signing as a formidable backup at the forward spots, and although im sure this will piss plenty of people off, hes a much better overall player than Tolliver.

I agree with all of this. My issue is just with the amount. I know we have to overpay for FAs, but this just seems like a little more than an overpay. I do like the years and the fact he coems off in the next big FA year and the theory that we paid this much to get him on a short deal does make some sense.

[BeesWax]

Clifford also likes a half decent passer from the high post, and that is something Williams is absolutely horrific at. We will see how it works out. Now that I;ve had some time to look over the signing and relax I kind of like it.

Problem is we don't have any really good passers from the high post at PF. What he may do is use Williams to stretch the floor and run MKG out of the high post. Seems like a perfect fit to me in that sense.

Id love to see MKG work out of the high post.

Me too. I think he would thrive there. If his jumper gets even slightly respectable in games he would be a perfect fit.

[EwingSweatsALot]

No wonder they were one of the worst teams in the league. Starting Marvin Williams at PF was all a part of the tanking strategy. I'm about to go do some statistical research to see how the team fared with him on/off the court

Per 82 games

on/off: +6.3 for offense, +2.7 for defense which comes to +3.6 overall.

eFG% was up 3% with him on the court
Rebounding was awful, -3.2% when he was on the court vs off

ESPN's real plus minus has him at an overall of -.07.

That rebounding is atrocious. Then again McRoberts wasn't a very good rebounder either, but still..

McRobert's was -2.2% last year.

[amcoolio]

Well, the Jazz were horribly coached and built last season. Its possible Marvin was totally misused and comes in here being a more reliable Tolliver. But I still don't get it.