The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread

[Elden Payton]

People are really this upset with this signing?

He got paid too much, but a 2 year deal isn't going to hold us back longterm.

He plays 2 positions, that we need depth in, and he is playoff seasoned, which we needed.

He's also a high character guy, who will cause zero problems for the franchise.

He's 28 years old, and we should be getting the best version of Marvin there has ever been.

His game suits both Jefferson and MKG.


Kemba/Hendo/Gilchrist/Williams/Jefferson

Kemba/MKG/Williams/Zeller/Jefferson

I wouldn't be surprised to see us run with this second lineup, quite often this season.

Amen.

[JDR720]

Is the timing of this deal a bit odd?

The Jazz matched the Hayward offer and within a few hours, Marvin was in the bag?

The Hayward+Marv deals, would have had us over the cap?

Did we make a run at Hayward, knowing that they would match, pushing Marvin lower on their list of priorities?

Obviously we were rumoured to be interested in him, I just find the timing of it all a bit odd, after thinking about it.

all part of cho's master plan for world domination

[Elden Payton]

Is the timing of this deal a bit odd?

The Jazz matched the Hayward offer and within a few hours, Marvin was in the bag?

The Hayward+Marv deals, would have had us over the cap?

Did we make a run at Hayward, knowing that they would match, pushing Marvin lower on their list of priorities?

Obviously we were rumoured to be interested in him, I just find the timing of it all a bit odd, after thinking about it.

all part of cho's master plan for world domination

I'll go out on a limb and say that oneday Choseph Smith looked into a hat...

[Marvel]

TBH, i wouldn't have hated signing Marvin since Cho was cornered into overpaying for Hayward, but at $7 mil?!? **** me backwards that's terrible. Again, i think signing Marvin wasn't such a bad idea, but at $7 mil...i can't put my head around that. He sucked playing the "stretch 4" for Utah and even if Cliff plays him at SF all he can do is shoot 3s.

[MPM]

I'll suffer through, but Tolly brings everything that Marvin does (and more) at a fraction of the cost. Bad signing for the dollars. Plus, Marvin's wrestled with injury issues and did not seem to be that great of a fit in Utah's Alfense, part one. Struggling to come to terms with the money here.

Good read from a Jazz fan perspective: http://www.slcdunk.com/nba-free-agency/ ... -uncertain

We still have a shot at Lance?

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I’ll admit that my first response to the signing was hugely negative. Then I looked up his stats and thought about it. I’m still not THRILLED, but I’m OK with this now.

Here’s the deal for me.

1. The 2 year contract is big. This is almost certainly when the team expects that Zeller and Vonleh will be developed enough to be completely steady as starters. I think what the team hoped for was another year or two of McBob holding down the fort while these guys got better without the pressure of starting regularly on a winning team. They didn’t want to overpay for years 3+. Now as far as Marvin is concerned, it’s been rightly pointed out that the mid-level (which is huge this year thanks to the cap bump) was likely to be what Marvin was getting offered from other teams. Don’t forget that multiple teams have been rumored to be interested in him. That was likely his floor at 3-4 years. To get him for 2 years as a stop-gap the team was going to have to overpay a bit.

(In related Gordon was obviously the guy Cho wanted out of free agency. Speculation on my part, but I think that Cho expected to get McBob back on either a 2 year deal for good money … or a 4 year deal making a bit more than he did last year. The thing was when Miami went agro over McBob Cho was not in a really good position to match. The timing was wrong with Gordon being in play. McBob smartly chose security and to get paid and Cho kept course and went after his main target. I’m OK with both of those.)

2. Marvin has more size than Tolliver and can spread the floor just as well. He’s not going to replace what McBob brought or Gordon would have brought in terms of versatility, but he can play. I’ll freely admit that last year wasn’t his best, especially defensively, but Williams has the tools and if you look at his career numbers he does have potential as a floor spreader and cog in Cliff’s defensive scheme. Tolliver really fell off after mid-season … likely the amount of time it took other teams to really scout him. I don’t think that he would have been nearly effective this year as he was at the start of last year if he had come back in a similar role. Marvin on the other hand has been at least serviceable for years. He’s fine as a stop-gap, even if he isn’t sexy in the way Hayward and Lance are.

[LamarMatic7]

People are really this upset with this signing?

He got paid too much, but a 2 year deal isn't going to hold us back longterm.

He plays 2 positions, that we need depth in, and he is playoff seasoned, which we needed.

He's also a high character guy, who will cause zero problems for the franchise.

He's 28 years old, and we should be getting the best version of Marvin there has ever been.

His game suits both Jefferson and MKG.

Kemba/Hendo/Gilchrist/Williams/Jefferson

Kemba/MKG/Williams/Zeller/Jefferson

I wouldn't be surprised to see us run with this second lineup, quite often this season.

That's pretty much how I feel. I don't like the money we're paying him but as long as his contract ends the same summer the Al experiment ends it isn't that bad.

[Elden Payton]

People are really this upset with this signing?

He got paid too much, but a 2 year deal isn't going to hold us back longterm.

He plays 2 positions, that we need depth in, and he is playoff seasoned, which we needed.

He's also a high character guy, who will cause zero problems for the franchise.

He's 28 years old, and we should be getting the best version of Marvin there has ever been.

His game suits both Jefferson and MKG.

Kemba/Hendo/Gilchrist/Williams/Jefferson

Kemba/MKG/Williams/Zeller/Jefferson

I wouldn't be surprised to see us run with this second lineup, quite often this season.

That's pretty much how I feel. I don't like the money we're paying him but as long as his contract ends the same summer the Al experiment ends it isn't that bad.

Hopefully people simmer down soon, when they go through the stages of grief.

[UNCNYC]

I like this signing. He is a long time NBA contributor who can give you 2 positions. He should be a great replacement for McRoberts. He is only signed for 2 years which doesnt hurt us at all because at the least we can trade him next year to come off the books for someone.

[Bassman]

In theory Williams would appear a good fit for his versatility. However, his contract is too big a hit, and his injury issues could render him an expensive bench warmer.

Since Cho seems enamored with Jazz players, I fear he was seeing Marvin through Cho-colored glasses.

I'd like to know what Hump was asking for?

[Hornet Mania]

It's an overpay but it's only two years. We can go big with with Williams at the 3 or small with him at the 4. I think if he wasn't burdened with being a disappointing no.2 pick (ahead of CP3!) folks would have a much kinder opinion of his ability. Not thrilled with the signing, but I'm not looking for the nearest tall building either. In Austria it would be easier to find a nice cliff anyway

So does this leave us with about $13 million in space? Still enough for Lance if so, and we can grab a backup PG with the room exception unless I'm mistaken. If we exit this summer with only a Marvin Williams overpay plus scrubs it will be a bummer. If we finish it with Williams/Lance/Jameer Nelson (or equivalent) it changes everything. I'm keeping hope alive til the bitter end.

[Benjamin Linus]

I liked the idea of bringing in Marvin as a cheap vet that could give us some minutes at the forward spots, but man, $7 million is bit much, even if it is for only two years.

I would have much rather kept McBob at $5.75 million and then moved him in two years.

[MPM]

It's an overpay but it's only two years. We can go big with with Williams at the 3 or small with him at the 4. I think if he wasn't burdened with being a disappointing no.2 pick (ahead of CP3!) folks would have a much kinder opinion of his ability. Not thrilled with the signing, but I'm not looking for the nearest tall building either. In Austria it would be easier to find a nice cliff anyway

So does this leave us with about $13 million in space? Still enough for Lance if so, and we can grab a backup PG with the room exception unless I'm mistaken. If we exit this summer with only a Marvin Williams overpay plus scrubs it will be a bummer. If we finish it with Williams/Lance/Jameer Nelson (or equivalent) it changes everything. I'm keeping hope alive til the bitter end.

Meh on Marvin, but if we walk away with Williams, Lance, Jameer (or even DJ), I'd consider it a strong offseason.

[mrknowitall215]

Good read from a Jazz fan perspective: http://www.slcdunk.com/nba-free-agency/ ... -uncertain

Reading the comments, it read like Jazz fans didn't care much for his presence as for he was mediocre in every attribute except for being a bad defender. Even the writer 'tried' to make Marvin Williams seem tolerable while openly admitting being a "unashamed Marvin Williams fan" that doesn't have high hopes for him on the Jazz

[Pryftan]

People are really this upset with this signing?

He got paid too much, but a 2 year deal isn't going to hold us back longterm.

He plays 2 positions, that we need depth in, and he is playoff seasoned, which we needed.

He's also a high character guy, who will cause zero problems for the franchise.

He's 28 years old, and we should be getting the best version of Marvin there has ever been.

His game suits both Jefferson and MKG.

Kemba/Hendo/Gilchrist/Williams/Jefferson

Kemba/MKG/Williams/Zeller/Jefferson

I wouldn't be surprised to see us run with this second lineup, quite often this season.

The primary complaint here is its an overpay which you seem to agree with. He's a decent player but paying him $7m per year is dumb. Who else was gunning for this guy? Who were we bidding against? No one disputes the basketball case. People dispute the financial case. If you only judged this decision by the basketball case there's no need to be upset. But that is short-sighted in my opinion. You don't just look at the talent you acquire but what you exhausted in terms of cap space to acquire it. This was not a good deal. People are completely justified in being upset when your GM makes a bad move.

[buffaloblue]

The primary complaint here is its an overpay which you seem to agree with. He's a decent player but paying him $7m per year is dumb. Who else was gunning for this guy? Who were we bidding against? No one disputes the basketball case. People dispute the financial case. If you only judged this decision by the basketball case there's no need to be upset. But that is short-sighted in my opinion. You don't just look at the talent you acquire but what you exhausted in terms of cap space to acquire it. This was not a good deal. People are completely justified in being upset when your GM makes a bad move.

Multiple teams with the Mid Level Exception.

They could offer 3 years over 16 or 4 years 23.

This means if we went shorter, we needed to beat 2 years 11.5 by enough to give him reason to accept.

That number was 14 which means we paid 1.2 to 1.3 million over market to get him.

[Elden Payton]

People are really this upset with this signing?

He got paid too much, but a 2 year deal isn't going to hold us back longterm.

He plays 2 positions, that we need depth in, and he is playoff seasoned, which we needed.

He's also a high character guy, who will cause zero problems for the franchise.

He's 28 years old, and we should be getting the best version of Marvin there has ever been.

His game suits both Jefferson and MKG.

Kemba/Hendo/Gilchrist/Williams/Jefferson

Kemba/MKG/Williams/Zeller/Jefferson

I wouldn't be surprised to see us run with this second lineup, quite often this season.

The primary complaint here is its an overpay which you seem to agree with. He's a decent player but paying him $7m per year is dumb. Who else was gunning for this guy? Who were we bidding against? No one disputes the basketball case. People dispute the financial case. If you only judged this decision by the basketball case there's no need to be upset. But that is short-sighted in my opinion. You don't just look at the talent you acquire but what you exhausted in terms of cap space to acquire it. This was not a good deal. People are completely justified in being upset when your GM makes a bad move.

When you're overpaying the guy by 2.4m over 2 seasons does it matter?

If Miami and San Antonio, both offered him the MLE, would he accept the same amount to play in Charlotte?

I highly doubt it, we've always had to pay a premium to attract FA's, and until we have some form of consistent success, we'll continue having to do so.

Also, it's not proven that this is a bad move yet, he'll have to actually play some minutes before we know either way.

[Elden Payton]

The primary complaint here is its an overpay which you seem to agree with. He's a decent player but paying him $7m per year is dumb. Who else was gunning for this guy? Who were we bidding against? No one disputes the basketball case. People dispute the financial case. If you only judged this decision by the basketball case there's no need to be upset. But that is short-sighted in my opinion. You don't just look at the talent you acquire but what you exhausted in terms of cap space to acquire it. This was not a good deal. People are completely justified in being upset when your GM makes a bad move.

Multiple teams with the Mid Level Exception.

They could offer 3 years over 16 or 4 years 23.

This means if we went shorter, we needed to beat 2 years 11.5 by enough to give him reason to accept.

That number was 14 which means we paid 1.2 to 1.3 million over market to get him.

Exactly!

Good post.

[KembaWalker]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io5JBS__4v4#t=33[/youtube]

now I know why we drafted him

Cho needed some competition (@ 33 sec)

[tondi123]

People are really this upset with this signing?

He got paid too much, but a 2 year deal isn't going to hold us back longterm.

He plays 2 positions, that we need depth in, and he is playoff seasoned, which we needed.

He's also a high character guy, who will cause zero problems for the franchise.

He's 28 years old, and we should be getting the best version of Marvin there has ever been.

His game suits both Jefferson and MKG.

Kemba/Hendo/Gilchrist/Williams/Jefferson

Kemba/MKG/Williams/Zeller/Jefferson

I wouldn't be surprised to see us run with this second lineup, quite often this season.

That's pretty much how I feel. I don't like the money we're paying him but as long as his contract ends the same summer the Al experiment ends it isn't that bad.

The Al experiment ends after this year unless he gets hurt or we agree to pay him huge money when he opts out after this season.