Official Speculation Thread Part 1 (Summer League 2014)

[tiderulz]

People who have already given up on Gordon before he's played a single NBA game should be held accountable next season.

Gordon basically had the same game as Exum's his first game. 7 pts 5 rebs, a highlight alley oop dunk, and a block where he jumped up and took it out of the air. Zach Lavine had 13 pts. All these guys are about the same age and I expect the other two will have some really bad games this SL too.

It's not just stats man, the way Exum looked you could tell he will be something one day. Gordon looked like a tweener with no real skills yet except hustle and some passing.

why are we overrating SL play? Ibaka didnt look like the Ibaka of now during his rookie year. Gordon has yet to go to camp with the team and start learning from the vets.

Just amazed that everyone wants to judge 18 ad 19 yr olds as finished products after just a couple of SL games.

[akhenaten]

Man Hennigan effed up, don't care what anyone says.

Exum is ready to play right now, not weak with the ball when he gets pressured, stupid quicks, vision... got damn you don't pass this dude to pick Aaron Gordon.

As far as the we have Payton "cushion" to fall back on to make us feel better, yeah look, Payton is a really nice PG who realistically has to work on more things than Exum although his defensive accumen is ahead of Exum but I honestly could go either way with getting elite D from the PG spot cause at 6'6" he's gonna have height and length advantages and maybe even a speed advantage.

And btw peeps glomming onto Gordon being 18, Exum just turned 19 right now (early AM) so that isn't a good crutch either.

Henny messed up, no 2 ways about it, he got some good players who'll need a little more work (namely Payton) and alot of more work (namely Gordon) than the #5 pick.

What did Exum do that Payton didn't show? On offense they were really similar. Good vision, nice passing, unselfish, hesitant to shoot, both like to penetrate and find open teammates. And yes, Elfrid gets after on defense.

Exum looked good, but I watched that game as intently as the next person and came away still comfortable with Elfrid Payton as our PG of the future.

Payton was a turnover machine all week, 20 to's in 5 games, and most of them looked bad. Yes he did a lot of good things, but he had turnover problems. Only one game, but Exum only one turnover in 27 minutes last night. To me he looked like he had better control than Payton. So that's what I think Exum showed that Payton didn't.

[SOUL]

It's fruitless arguing these people. They already have their minds made up and want whoever they wanted in the draft and won't come off it til they see Gordon average like 20/10.

Like they say, you see only what you want to see. I saw a ton of great things from Gordon but a lot of things he has to obviously work on at the offensive end, which I think he can.

[OrlandO]

Man Hennigan effed up, don't care what anyone says.

Exum is ready to play right now, not weak with the ball when he gets pressured, stupid quicks, vision... got damn you don't pass this dude to pick Aaron Gordon.

As far as the we have Payton "cushion" to fall back on to make us feel better, yeah look, Payton is a really nice PG who realistically has to work on more things than Exum although his defensive accumen is ahead of Exum but I honestly could go either way with getting elite D from the PG spot cause at 6'6" he's gonna have height and length advantages and maybe even a speed advantage.

And btw peeps glomming onto Gordon being 18, Exum just turned 19 right now (early AM) so that isn't a good crutch either.

Henny messed up, no 2 ways about it, he got some good players who'll need a little more work (namely Payton) and alot of more work (namely Gordon) than the #5 pick.

What did Exum do that Payton didn't show? On offense they were really similar. Good vision, nice passing, unselfish, hesitant to shoot, both like to penetrate and find open teammates. And yes, Elfrid gets after on defense.

Exum looked good, but I watched that game as intently as the next person and came away still comfortable with Elfrid Payton as our PG of the future.

Payton was a turnover machine all week, 20 to's in 5 games, and most of them looked bad. Yes he did a lot of good things, but he had turnover problems. Only one game, but Exum only one turnover in 27 minutes last night. To me he looked like he had better control than Payton. So that's what I think Exum showed that Payton didn't.

Wrong, Exum turned it over twice. They missed one in the box score. 3 assist, 2 tov is not amazing. The Sixer's B team defense was practically non-existent against him, too. There were a few plays where a player actually played defense on him and he got blocked, stripped and generally looked less comfortable (was quick to give up the ball to teammates, clumsy dribbling). We'll certainly need more than 1 SL game to get a better idea of his assist/turnover rate.

Outside of the first game where payton looked extremely nervous, his passing was fine. Even in the game where he had 10 assists and 7 tov, a few of those tov were not concerning at all (either simple mistakes that he won't make in the future or tov caused by his teammate). The important thing is he finished extremely strong with an 8 assist, 2 tov performance and that was when he finally got to start with both gordon and dipo. He averaged 9 assists and 4 tov when starting.... That is GREAT for summer league.

[MellowRose]

Man Hennigan effed up, don't care what anyone says.

Exum is ready to play right now, not weak with the ball when he gets pressured, stupid quicks, vision... got damn you don't pass this dude to pick Aaron Gordon.

As far as the we have Payton "cushion" to fall back on to make us feel better, yeah look, Payton is a really nice PG who realistically has to work on more things than Exum although his defensive accumen is ahead of Exum but I honestly could go either way with getting elite D from the PG spot cause at 6'6" he's gonna have height and length advantages and maybe even a speed advantage.

And btw peeps glomming onto Gordon being 18, Exum just turned 19 right now (early AM) so that isn't a good crutch either.

Henny messed up, no 2 ways about it, he got some good players who'll need a little more work (namely Payton) and alot of more work (namely Gordon) than the #5 pick.

What did Exum do that Payton didn't show? On offense they were really similar. Good vision, nice passing, unselfish, hesitant to shoot, both like to penetrate and find open teammates. And yes, Elfrid gets after on defense.

Exum looked good, but I watched that game as intently as the next person and came away still comfortable with Elfrid Payton as our PG of the future.

Payton was a turnover machine all week, 20 to's in 5 games, and most of them looked bad. Yes he did a lot of good things, but he had turnover problems. Only one game, but Exum only one turnover in 27 minutes last night. To me he looked like he had better control than Payton. So that's what I think Exum showed that Payton didn't.

Out of those 27 minutes, in how many possessions was Burke the "PG" and in how many minutes was Exum the "PG"?

That's what I thought.

[rcklsscognition]

I would not be surprised if Exum puts up 16/3/3/1 his first season. I would expect a 5:1:0.75:0.25 ratio out of him for his career, so for example if he got 20PPG, he'd average 4 assists, 3 boards and 1 steal. I expect Payton's ratio to be 3:1.75:1.25:0.5, so 15ppg, 8.75 apg, 6.25 rpg, 2 steals.

This is just an example, I don't know what role Payton will have with us year one, same goes for Exum. But I think these ratios will scale with their minutes.

[Def Swami]

Man Hennigan effed up, don't care what anyone says.

Exum is ready to play right now, not weak with the ball when he gets pressured, stupid quicks, vision... got damn you don't pass this dude to pick Aaron Gordon.

As far as the we have Payton "cushion" to fall back on to make us feel better, yeah look, Payton is a really nice PG who realistically has to work on more things than Exum although his defensive accumen is ahead of Exum but I honestly could go either way with getting elite D from the PG spot cause at 6'6" he's gonna have height and length advantages and maybe even a speed advantage.

And btw peeps glomming onto Gordon being 18, Exum just turned 19 right now (early AM) so that isn't a good crutch either.

Henny messed up, no 2 ways about it, he got some good players who'll need a little more work (namely Payton) and alot of more work (namely Gordon) than the #5 pick.

What did Exum do that Payton didn't show? On offense they were really similar. Good vision, nice passing, unselfish, hesitant to shoot, both like to penetrate and find open teammates. And yes, Elfrid gets after on defense.

Exum looked good, but I watched that game as intently as the next person and came away still comfortable with Elfrid Payton as our PG of the future.

Payton was a turnover machine all week, 20 to's in 5 games, and most of them looked bad. Yes he did a lot of good things, but he had turnover problems. Only one game, but Exum only one turnover in 27 minutes last night. To me he looked like he had better control than Payton. So that's what I think Exum showed that Payton didn't.

Payton also led our entire summer league in total assists. And as OrlandO mentioned, had a 9 to 4 A/TO ratio, which is really good for any rookie PG, and a more appropriate metric. And Payton did that going up against higher quality ball pressure throughout the span of the week. Exum didn't face real pressure from opposing guards until toward the end of the game last night. Let's see how he does when players pick him up full-court or start trapping him off the screen and roll.

Also, anyone else want to comment on the quality of Payton's TO's? Anyone else think "most of them looked bad?" I think anyone who watched all 5 games knows that he struggled in game 1, but looked relatively poised the rest of the week. You're being hyperbolic with this claim.

[MoGrAdY]

To be fair Exum could have easily had upwards of 8 assists last night. He created so many shots for other players and they would either miss the shot or get fouled down low. He looked very very good, no denying the skill is there.

[Tayswagzzz]

Let's stop talking about Exum, it makes me sad.

I'm glad we picked up Payton and I think he's a gem. I just can't see the silver lining with Gordon but I hope he proves me wrong..gotta be optimistic.

[LBPTarHeel27]

I can't tell you how many posts I've clicked "quote" and been ready to go off on how ignorant and stupid some of these posts are. Then I remind myself it's a waste of time. There is no discussion or debate going on here...just knee jerk reactions from unrealistic people with outragious opinions.

If anyone truly believes they have formulated accurate projections for ANY rookie...delete your account.

[OrlandO]

To be fair Exum could have easily had upwards of 8 assists last night. He created so many shots for other players and they would either miss the shot or get fouled down low. He looked very very good, no denying the skill is there.

8 is pushing it. Maybe 6 at most. Some of his good passes didn't result in shot attempts either. Anyway, you can say the same thing about Payton, which is why it's encouraging he was still able to lead the Orlando SL with 7 assists even though he played limited minutes in two of the five games. Look at some of these performances from guys he frequently connected with...

osby 2-7 (twice)
dedmon 1-7
gordon 3-11, 0-3, 3-10
curry 2-9
marble 1-9, 0-7
And Oladipo was busy playing iso ball most of the time

[BadMofoPimp]

For those trashing Gordon, look how Vonleh has played.

[Orlwillbeback]

For those trashing Gordon, look how Vonleh has played.

[Orlwillbeback]

Should we have drafted this guy or the other guy?

Who cares now? The draft is over, we got three VERY promising guys and lets just enjoy what's to come.

No matter the opinions or how much we debate on it, it won't change that we have Gordon (who I like a lot), Payton (who's rising fast in my fav Magic player list) and Marble (who can flat out play ball) and we don't have Exum or other guys.

Watch them grow, support the team. It makes things easier

amazing sig....

[SOUL]

For those trashing Gordon, look how Vonleh has played.

Even that means nothing though. Vonleh can > Exum and Gordon.

SL means nothing. I just know I'm supporting who we got.

[Melvinlocker]

I would not be surprised if Exum puts up 16/3/3/1 his first season. I would expect a 5:1:0.75:0.25 ratio out of him for his career, so for example if he got 20PPG, he'd average 4 assists, 3 boards and 1 steal. I expect Payton's ratio to be 3:1.75:1.25:0.5, so 15ppg, 8.75 apg, 6.25 rpg, 2 steals.

This is just an example, I don't know what role Payton will have with us year one, same goes for Exum. But I think these ratios will scale with their minutes.

Is there a good article on the ratios that you are referring to? It seems interesting enough to read about, but I'm not quite sure if there is anything there to be gleaned. If have anything, even if it is just your personal explanation, I'd appreciate it.

[OrlandO]

For those trashing Gordon, look how Vonleh has played.

He was so bad and missed so many shots that the stat keeper refused to believe he scored on a putback and didn't count it...

[tooler]

Don't care about the picks right now but I do enjoy breaking down the thought process. I feel better when I understand, whether I agree or not. (Same wih politics!)

Exum worked out for us, right? And last night we saw he was quick and had a good first step. Well, it's not like bricking a bunch of shots at the workout. You're either quick or you're not. So unless Henny was legally blind, he saw what we all saw last night.

That means he must be prioritizing other things. We can debate those if you want. Character vs talent, defense vs offense, etc. but I seriously doubt last night was a surprise to our GM, so it shouldn't be to us either.

[WillyJakkz]

It's fruitless arguing these people. They already have their minds made up and want whoever they wanted in the draft and won't come off it til they see Gordon average like 20/10.

Like they say, you see only what you want to see. I saw a ton of great things from Gordon but a lot of things he has to obviously work on at the offensive end, which I think he can.

Only post you've made where I agree with.

Futile to argue against lemmings and I definitely don't support bad judgment.

We drafted the wrong guy at #4 end of story, can't nothing be done about it.

We have who we have and I'm definitely feeling Payton and hope he can grow into what I see him becoming, Gordon is a huge W.I.P. and I hope whatever they saw in him that warranted the #4 pick develops as he is farther back than expected.

The Gordon pick reminds me of the HS draft picks back in the day when some panned out and some didn't, the coordination and footwork of Gordon is what has me worried, his handles are decent, not great like people think, especially going to his left.

I've coached kids like him and it's astonishing after a yr of college at a major university his game fundamentally is not quite as sound as I'd imagine but then again when I think of Arizona bball I think of Lute Olson and not the new regime (though Lute has had guys that didn't pan out as well like the Miles Simon kid at the time).

[arkknight1988]

Rob made me nervous with that Gordon pick. I hope he didn't try to get too fancy with it.

First time I've really questioned a henny move