The One And Only Offseason Thread 2

[sunsbum]

Jeebus Christ ... Some of you act like Dragic is an old man. He can ball for the next 5 easy

Plus, I think Love would mesh better with him and the MoBros.

And what's this jabbering about who we can afford to keep AFTER next yr. crap o mighty... We have a cap wizard manning the books. Too much thinking by tiny thinkers going on here. Our FO knows the #s far better than 99% here

I don't understand the age thing either. We went and signed Nash when he was three years older than Dragic is now to play with a young core in Amare, JJ, etc. Dragic is the same age Nash was in 2001-02. And with medical advances people play much longer these days.

People gotta stop comparing Nash and Dragic. Dragic is a scorer who drives to the basket and takes contact a la KJ or Wade. Nash's game was low-to-the-ground, avoiding contact, making plays for others. Dragic's game is predicated on athleticism, Nash's wasn't.

The biggest parallels between Nash and Dragic is that they're both Suns, and they're both white. Neither is useful when we're talking about longevity.

I disagree. While Goran may be more athletic and slashier, he will also age very well because he is crafty. I see him having a ginobli like career. Goran also has very low basketball mileage on him.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I don't understand the age thing either. We went and signed Nash when he was three years older than Dragic is now to play with a young core in Amare, JJ, etc. Dragic is the same age Nash was in 2001-02. And with medical advances people play much longer these days.

People gotta stop comparing Nash and Dragic. Dragic is a scorer who drives to the basket and takes contact a la KJ or Wade. Nash's game was low-to-the-ground, avoiding contact, making plays for others. Dragic's game is predicated on athleticism, Nash's wasn't.

The biggest parallels between Nash and Dragic is that they're both Suns, and they're both white. Neither is useful when we're talking about longevity.

I disagree. While Goran may be more athletic and slashier, he will also age very well because he is crafty. I see him having a ginobli like career. Goran also has very low basketball mileage on him.

Your last point is true, and that is a plausible comparison.

... As far as I see it, there are three ways to trade for Love. A Bledsoe-centered deal, a Dragic-centered deal, and a youth-centered deal. I vote option #2. Many are saying screw Love, which I think is probably the second-best option. Trading the youth away is by far the worst option, imo.

[sunsbum]

To follow that up, anyone wanna bet Dragic is all-NBA this year? Because I think there's no chance. Rose, Rondo, Westbrook, and Kobe are all back. His stats were lower when he played with Bledsoe, IIRC. He'll also play fewer minutes due to IT and the emergence of Archie Goodwin. All that is to say, he very likely peaked last season.

Any takers? Surely no....

Does he have to be all NBA again to be our leader and MVP? If he puts up 17/5/4 on 50% with 40% 3pt are you still going to poop on the poor guy every chance you get?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

To follow that up, anyone wanna bet Dragic is all-NBA this year? Because I think there's no chance. Rose, Rondo, Westbrook, and Kobe are all back. His stats were lower when he played with Bledsoe, IIRC. He'll also play fewer minutes due to IT and the emergence of Archie Goodwin. All that is to say, he very likely peaked last season.

Any takers? Surely no....

Does he have to be all NBA again to be our leader and MVP? If he puts up 17/5/4 on 50% with 40% 3pt are you still going to poop on the poor guy every chance you get?

"Poor"? I like Dragic a lot, I just don't maintain sentimental interest in players. I want to win, and of our assets, he is to me the one who makes the most sense to trade. I'm being analytical. Others are worried about Bledsoe's injuries, and maybe I underestimate their severity. I just prefer think his defense is more valuable and less easily replaced. That's all.

[sunsbum]

If Minnesota wants to clean out our cupboards then I say wait a year and go all out for wittle gasol.

[Frank Lee]

I have never seen Bledsoe drop 25 pts in a quarter.... Come on cos, don't fall for the new girl with the sequined gown

[kennydorglas]

If Minnesota wants to clean out our cupboards then I say wait a year and go all out for wittle gasol.

that would be a dream

[bwgood77]

Jeebus Christ ... Some of you act like Dragic is an old man. He can ball for the next 5 easy

Plus, I think Love would mesh better with him and the MoBros.

And what's this jabbering about who we can afford to keep AFTER next yr. crap o mighty... We have a cap wizard manning the books. Too much thinking by tiny thinkers going on here. Our FO knows the #s far better than 99% here

I don't understand the age thing either. We went and signed Nash when he was three years older than Dragic is now to play with a young core in Amare, JJ, etc. Dragic is the same age Nash was in 2001-02. And with medical advances people play much longer these days.

People gotta stop comparing Nash and Dragic. Dragic is a scorer who drives to the basket and takes contact a la KJ or Wade. Nash's game was low-to-the-ground, avoiding contact, making plays for others. Dragic's game is predicated on athleticism, Nash's wasn't.

The biggest parallels between Nash and Dragic is that they're both Suns, and they're both white. Neither is useful when we're talking about longevity.

I'm not comparing him to Nash, and I really haven't seen anyone else compare the two either. I just was using an example for ages. Perhaps Nash's style helped him play longer. But the point is some guys break down and some guys don't, regardless of style of play. Bledsoe, for example, has obviously shown more wear and tear and the breakdown of his body despite being younger and not playing as much. Derrick Rose started breaking down at 23. Westbrook too. You are making WAY too big of deal about age, especially for a guy who just turned 28 and has NEVER had injury problems.

As for you underestimating Bledsoe's injury, it may have not been severe, but the first season he is a starter he plays in less than half of his games. That's not concerning at all? And he's had the same injury twice, which requires removal of cartilage in the knee.

I don't want to trade either one of them, mainly because there doesn't seem to be good value for what we'd get back, but I'd lean towards trading Bledsoe because of his injury history and he hasn't really shown he can run a team by himself. The team was outscored on the court when he was on it without Dragic.

[NapoleonII]

I don't understand the age thing either. We went and signed Nash when he was three years older than Dragic is now to play with a young core in Amare, JJ, etc. Dragic is the same age Nash was in 2001-02. And with medical advances people play much longer these days.

People gotta stop comparing Nash and Dragic. Dragic is a scorer who drives to the basket and takes contact a la KJ or Wade. Nash's game was low-to-the-ground, avoiding contact, making plays for others. Dragic's game is predicated on athleticism, Nash's wasn't.

The biggest parallels between Nash and Dragic is that they're both Suns, and they're both white. Neither is useful when we're talking about longevity.

I disagree. While Goran may be more athletic and slashier, he will also age very well because he is crafty. I see him having a ginobli like career. Goran also has very low basketball mileage on him.

Look up Nash's stats in Dallas...he was driving it a lot more, taking contact and getting free-throws. His game wasn't always so low to the ground, pick n roll and elite shooting. I don't see why Dragic can't also make that transition.

[rsavaj]

Anthony Tolliver as stretch 4?

Actually not a bad idea

[SunsFanSSOL]

2.6 RPG?

SIGN HIM UP!

[lilfishi22]

In terms of guard play, Dragic does play a fairly low impact style. He's like Ginobili in that he takes just enough contact to get the contact but rarely does he go for the full body contact to draw fouls like some of the more physical guards like Rose, Westbrook and Bledsoe does. His style is also less predicated on explosiveness than it is on finesse. I think he'll age very well, maybe not Nash averaging a double double at 37 well but still will be serviceable in his mid-30's.

[rsavaj]

Did anyone read about Baron Davis making a comeback?

I think he'd be a nice fit here. He's a vet who's been through a lot and can teach these young kids a thing or two.

good joke man

[Daredevilish]

Tolliver could be good, but he's shorter and older than Marcus. I could easily see Marcus putting up Tolliver-like stats next season.

[BobbieL]

We gotta drop it with the Kevin Love fantasies on this board, he's not coming here via trade. Minnesota is turning down better offers from CLE and GS. There's no reason to gut the team for one guy - recent NBA history shows us this is a bad idea.

At this point, shouldn't we be rooting for him NOT to get moved?

If MIN makes the playoffs, we get their pick. It's obvious that this is more likely if Love is on their team.

If Love enters free agency, we'll be one of the few teams that have the cap space and the talent to pitch him a competitive offer next year. In the mean time, we can see what guys like Green and the Mo Bros are really made of.

Why are fans of this team so intent on getting rid of the assets we have?

I am not so sure that the Cleveland offer being reported of Benett, Thompson and a first rounder is better than Dragic and the Morris twins.
Seriously, Dragic and Morris twins have shown more at the NBA level than theCleveland players offered so far. And just because Cleveland drafted them 1 and 4 - who gives a crap - who was their GM? He sucked hard like Lance Blanks.

I am not sure what Minnesota is looking for but if they had a chance at Klay Thompson and David Lee - they are stupid. That is a good trade.

[BobbieL]

Tolliver could be good, but he's shorter and older than Marcus. I could easily see Marcus putting up Tolliver-like stats next season.

Why do the Suns need a stretch four?

I just do not get the fascination? A guy that can step out and shoot three pointers?

Personally, off the bench with Kieff staring - give me a guy who can defend the 4, hustle, foul, block some shots and be a physical defensive presence

In lieu of that - I think they need a guy on a one year deal for 8-10- callig Shawn Marion. I get it, don't spend money to spend money but if you sign Bledsoe before anoter player, bird rights, gone.

[WeekapaugGroove]

People gotta stop comparing Nash and Dragic. Dragic is a scorer who drives to the basket and takes contact a la KJ or Wade. Nash's game was low-to-the-ground, avoiding contact, making plays for others. Dragic's game is predicated on athleticism, Nash's wasn't.

The biggest parallels between Nash and Dragic is that they're both Suns, and they're both white. Neither is useful when we're talking about longevity.

I disagree. While Goran may be more athletic and slashier, he will also age very well because he is crafty. I see him having a ginobli like career. Goran also has very low basketball mileage on him.

Your last point is true, and that is a plausible comparison.

... As far as I see it, there are three ways to trade for Love. A Bledsoe-centered deal, a Dragic-centered deal, and a youth-centered deal. I vote option #2. Many are saying screw Love, which I think is probably the second-best option. Trading the youth away is by far the worst option, imo.

I agree with you on a deal around dragic being the best of those scenarios. I'm not saying Bledsoe is better but if it's the Bledsoe option the suns would have a very real chance of losing both love and dragic for nothing next offseaon. The youth option might not get it done and it's super risky because they could end up trading all their upside guys for a one year rental. And I'm not sure we even have a youth option that the wolves would want.

I'm not totally comfortable trading for love in any scenario because he's for sure testing the market next summer. I do get reasoning behind a dragic centered deal though because they probably don't want to offer Goran the full 5 yr max so it's pretty much open competition for him next summer where if you got love at least they would be comfortable giving a full 5 year max and that would give them some advantage in keeping him next summer.

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[Wormwood74]

Some one asked why stetch 4's are such a big deal...

I will write this slowly and use small words...

Because when we have had a stretch 4 over the past 5 seasons, we have done vastly better. Channing Frye was our most or second most valuable player every year he has been here according to both RPM and net +/- per 48.

Stretch 4's make everyone vastly better on offense, and especially guards with a penchant for driving. A significant volume of data suggests we are going to be a lot worse off this year than last if we do not find a better replacement for Frye than the Morii.

In short, if this is the team we go to war with next year, we're probably still going to miss the playoffs even if Bledsoe stays healthy (huge if...)

[NTB]

Tolliver could be good, but he's shorter and older than Marcus. I could easily see Marcus putting up Tolliver-like stats next season.

Why do the Suns need a stretch four?

I just do not get the fascination? A guy that can step out and shoot three pointers?

Personally, off the bench with Kieff staring - give me a guy who can defend the 4, hustle, foul, block some shots and be a physical defensive presence

In lieu of that - I think they need a guy on a one year deal for 8-10- callig Shawn Marion. I get it, don't spend money to spend money but if you sign Bledsoe before anoter player, bird rights, gone.

Spacing? Especially when you play with 2 PGs.

[Revived]

Dragic isn't getting moved. Sarver is trying to make amends with the fan base not trying to piss them off.

If he trades the Suns BEST player and fan favorite Dragic away then there's no doubt people will quit going to games and Sarver will be forced to sell.

I don't give a s**t if it nets us Kevin Love.