What happened to the Nationals being the worst franchise??

jefbo_80 · Post #1 » by **jefbo_80** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:50 pm

28-37 and 19-12 in their last 31...
Just had a very good draft...
LHP Ross Detwiler
LHP Josh Smoker(Steal at #31)
OF Michael Burgess(Steal at #49)

OF/1B 2006 1st rounder Chris Marrero putting up power #'s in low A ball only matched by a young A-Rod... Just promoted to High A Potomac...

Done a great job scouting in the Dominican and have a few guys to keep tabs on... SS/3B Switch hitting Luis Castillo(Dominican Summer League, LHP Raudy Almonte(Dominican Summer League), SS Switch hitting Smiley Gonzalez(He'll be in the Gulf Coast League)...

Manny Acta has done a great job with this young team...
LHP Matt Chico has come along very nicely and at 23 looks to have a promising future... The rest of the makeshift staff is performing WELL above expectations... Christian Guzman looks to FINALLY be back from injury... Ryan Zimmerman has struggled with the bat but still is a very good young all around 3B... Dmitri Young is hitting out of his mind lately and is batting around .340 for the year... 22 year old Rule 5 draft pick C Jesus Flores looks very promising... Still have RHP Collin Balester in AA ready to emerge maybe as a September call up...

This isn't the worst "franchise" in baseball... Bright future... Kastan has a very good plan and the ownership group to back him... They've already made headway with a PATHETIC farm system inherited...
Look at the pathetic Pirates(Drafted Moskos at #4), Royals(Luke Hoveacher over Andrew Miller last year and Moustakas over Vitters this year, Alex Gordon still not performing), Tampa Bay(David Price was the right pick but they're still so far away especially with Delmon Young not coming out of the gates like they had hoped), etc., etc., etc...

Post #2 » by **GYBE** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:06 pm

Tampa is a lot closer to being ready to contend than Washington is.

Post #3 » by **Three34** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:07 pm

I love the fact that you claim Tampa as being "pathetic", with your only cited reason being Delmon Young. And why shouldn't that weigh more heavily in a debate than their 5 games under .500 record!

jefbo_80 · Post #4 » by **jefbo_80** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:14 pm

People were saying this Nats team would be the worst ever...
Nowhere close...
Not even gonna be the worst this season...
They're only 9 games under .500!! That's an accomplishment considering the bashing before the year...

And I think there's more to Tampa being pathetic than Delmon Young, who I personally like, he's just off to a slow start after the bat incident last year... How about them being downright god awful during their entire existence... Crawford, Upton, Young, etc. is a pretty good young core to start with...
Kazmir, Shields, and Price could be very good... Too bad they won't spend and end up getting stripped of their best players in a few years... I won't back off Tampa Bay being a horrid franchise... The Nats were 81-81 in their initial year in the league with a STRIPPED farm system. They struggled last year trying to rebuild this thing but turned Alfonso Soriano into Josh Smoker and Jordan Zimmerman out of the draft... Ryan Zimmerman hit .287 with 47 2B, 20 HR, 110 RBI in his first full year at 21 with already stellar defense at 3B... They dealt Livan for Chico and Mock, got Lopez and Kearns... They've at least showed a willingness to care for and rehabilitate their bare farm system no matter the cost... Other teams haven't done that... The Nationals are on the right path... ANd they'll spend money... New ballpark in '08...

Post #5 » by **Three34** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:29 pm

I do admire the fact that you've clearly done your research on the Nationals. It is a beautiful thing. But don't go around pretending that you know the circumstances of every other franchise in baseball. You harp on and on about the Nationals farm system but apparently only know of David Price in the Rays one. Yet instead of admitting as much, you've instead seemingly decided that you only know of Price because he's the only one in it worth mentioning.

It's cute, but it's also a bit silly.

jefbo_80 · Post #6 » by **jefbo_80** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:16 pm

Sham wrote:I do admire the fact that you've clearly done your research on the Nationals. It is a beautiful thing. But don't go around pretending that you know the circumstances of every other franchise in baseball. You harp on and on about the Nationals farm system but apparently only know of David Price in the Rays one. Yet instead of admitting as much, you've instead seemingly decided that you only know of Price because he's the only one in it worth mentioning.

It's cute, but it's also a bit silly.

They do have Evan Longoria and Jeff Neiman...
Outside of those two and the insanely :crazy:

Elijah Dukes I can't say that they are a prime haven for young gifted prospects... They haven't scouted well outside of the US and haven't had a legit free agent signing in their tenure in MLB...
The Nationals are pretty much an expansion club circa 2005...
I think they've made great strides... It's not all about the minors but the ability to do the work at the major league level to compete... The Devil Rays have been pathetic at that... Admit that much... I don't even wanna harp on the Rays cause they DO have an influx of talent come through the minors the past few years... This is more about the Nationals not being the "worst franchise" in baseball...

Post #7 » by **Basketball Jesus** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:05 pm

jefbo_80 wrote:had a legit free agent signing in their tenure in MLB

What? The Devil Rays have signed quite a few players that have significantly contributed to the team. Just because they're not household names doesn't mean they're not legit.

Post #8 » by **Chach** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:46 pm

Tampa has, quite possibly, the best farm system in baseball and that was before adding David Price. The team has a lot of high end talent and a lot of solid pitching prospects. Jacob McGee has 82/24 K/BB ration in 70 inning! 54 hits to the tune of a .208 BAA. Did I mention he's a 20 year old lefty at High A? Yeah, he's one of the top pitching prospects in all of baseball, he's dog meat.

The Nats certainly have improved themselves from even four months ago and I do like Manny Acta but try to keep your foot away from your mouth. The Pirates are by far the worst team in baseball. The Royals have made some nice moves recently. Billy Butler, Alex Gordon, Hockavar (Miller was looking at an insane signing bonus and he's pitched well this year) and taking Moustakas over Vitters was a nice choice too. mahalo
~Chach~

Post #9 » by **Three34** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:43 pm

jefbo_80 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

They do have Evan Longoria and Jeff Neiman...
Outside of those two and the insanely Elijah Dukes I can't say that they are a prime haven for young gifted prospects... They haven't scouted well outside of the US and haven't had a legit free agent signing in their tenure in MLB...
The Nationals are pretty much an expansion club circa 2005...
I think they've made great strides... It's not all about the minors but the ability to do the work at the major league level to compete... The Devil Rays have been pathetic at that... Admit that much... I don't even wanna harp on the Rays cause they DO have an influx of talent come through the minors the past few years... This is more about the Nationals not being the "worst franchise" in baseball...

Given that your current team is worse than Tampa, and that your farm system is worse than Tampa's, please explain again how the Nationals are less "pathetic" - to use your own words - than Tampa? And how can a team whose recent history involves being moved, crap attendance, lots of losing and being owned by the league, still invoke the "recent history" argument?

Post #10 » by **craig01** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:52 pm

I love the rap that keeps drilling the Rays.

Most of the (c)rap is old news.

The Rays do have the best farm system in baseball, and it is just beginning to produce at the major league level.

The nice thing about it, is that this team is stockpiled for several years at minimum.

Not too many teams can say that.

Post #11 » by **FNQ** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:02 am

Love the Hochevar over Andrew Miller reference when the Royals, much like the small-market A's, have to pick lesser talent higher in the draft, under the premise of taking less money :nonono:

And the Nationals still are the worst franchise. The Royals are close, but the Pirates?!?! Please...

Post #12 » by **studcrackers** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:44 am

the nationals arent the worst franchise b/c the rangers decided they'd like to enjoy that title instead of sitting in the middle of the pack and going nowhere. Rebuilding FTW!

Post #13 » by **Chach** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:46 am

510Reggae wrote:Love the Hochevar over Andrew Miller reference when the Royals, much like the small-market A's, have to pick lesser talent higher in the draft, under the premise of taking less money

And the Nationals still are the worst franchise. The Royals are close, but the Pirates?!?! Please...

You don't agree that the Pirates are the worst run franchise in baseball? mahalo
~Chach~

Post #14 » by **FNQ** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:56 am

They have 2 good, young pitchers (one potential ace in Tom) Gorzelanny and Snell... have a decent farm system and are pretty young in terms of positional starters... would I trade the Nats system for the Pirates? In a heartbeat.

jefbo_80 · Post #15 » by **jefbo_80** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:20 am

Sham wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Given that your current team is worse than Tampa, and that your farm system is worse than Tampa's, please explain again how the Nationals are less "pathetic" - to use your own words - than Tampa? And how can a team whose recent history involves being moved, crap attendance, lots of losing and being owned by the league, still invoke the "recent history" argument?

Becuase, quite frankly, the ownership staff of the Devil Rays have taken THIS long just to get good, young talent through the system and MAYBE contribute successfully at the MLB level. Delmon Young has been decent, BJ Upton has looked really good, Shields, Kazmir, and Dukes have come in and 2 of the 3 have looked really good. Guess what... They're still only marginally better record wise than the Nats who've made better decisions at the MLB level. It's not all about having the best farm system. When you stink year in and year out for so long you SHOULD develop players in the lower levels. They still have been a pathetic franchise. Please. And to the guy saying the Pirates aren't pathetic... :rofl:

Post #16 » by **Three34** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:02 pm

jefbo_80 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Becuase, quite frankly, the ownership staff of the Devil Rays have taken THIS long just to get good, young talent through the system and MAYBE contribute successfully at the MLB level. Delmon Young has been decent, BJ Upton has looked really good, Shields, Kazmir, and Dukes have come in and 2 of the 3 have looked really good. Guess what... They're still only marginally better record wise than the Nats who've made better decisions at the MLB level. It's not all about having the best farm system. When you stink year in and year out for so long you SHOULD develop players in the lower levels. They still have been a pathetic franchise. Please. And to the guy saying the Pirates aren't pathetic...

Now you know they've changed owners, don't you?

Post #17 » by **Chach** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:33 pm

510Reggae wrote:They have 2 good, young pitchers (one potential ace in Tom) Gorzelanny and Snell... have a decent farm system and are pretty young in terms of positional starters... would I trade the Nats system for the Pirates? In a heartbeat.

HAHAHA Not a **** chance bro. Then got Andrew McCutchen (who hasn't hit this year) and Neil Walker, who's move to third, which lessens his value, but is tearing the cover off the ball right now, and that's about it. Washington's system has some holes in it as well but Bowden got off the sauce long enough to have an excellent draft if they spend a little money. The Bucs took Moskos with the #4 overall pick over Wieters, which I think just about sums it up for the organization. They seem to have some depth on the major league roster but Littlefield can't seem to make any moves that really benefit the team. mahalo
~Chach~

Post #18 » by **FNQ** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:14 pm

The Pirates operate under the same low-salary the A's and other teams do... they probably cut a deal with Moskos that was better than what anyone else would take. It's no different than 25 teams passing on the best pitcher (Porcello) because his price tag was too high... the Pirates have to draft like the A's.

The Pirates still have some good prospects in the minors, more than just Walker and McCutchen... Bullington, Van Benschoten (pitching Sat), Bixler... this one tall as hell RHP, upwards of 6'5, can't remember his name... combine their minor leagues with their already youthful major league team, and I'd take them over the Nats any day.

OSBB · Post #19 » by **OSBB** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:45 pm

The Nat's farm system is maybe the worst in baseball and Tampa's is the best.

Niemann, McGee, Davis, Longoria, Brignac, Hellickson, Price are ALL better than the Nat's top prospect (Colin Balester, I guess). And that's not counting Young, Dukes and Sonnanstine.

Tampa has new owners, they too get hit with the "cheap" tag but look at their off-season aquisitions: Carlos Pena (hitting about .314 with 14 HR), Aki Iwamura (OBP is .430+, GG defense), Brendan Harris (.312 BA, 6 HR, solid defense at SS). Plus they paid Al Reyes to sit at home last year so they'd have him this year (15/15 saves, sub 2.0 ERA).

Plus Delmon is only 21.

All they need to do at this point is pay up for extensions.

OSBB · Post #20 » by **OSBB** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:05 pm

jefbo_80 wrote:Tampa Bay(David Price was the right pick but they're still so far away especially with Delmon Young not coming out of the gates like they had hoped), etc., etc., etc...

I don't mean to harp on this but how are the Rays "so far away"?

I think they're a wild card team next year.