Early Top 8 in the East projections.

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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#221 » by Prokorov » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:38 am

Waylon Mercy wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Waylon Mercy wrote:
2 years ago...

Lopez wasn't coming off another major injury,


Actually he was coming off the exact same major injury to the exact same foot.


Yup 2 years ago he was coming off one surgery now he's coming off two surgeries
and to the same foot...

That's why there's so many ?'s with him


isnt it still the same question mark? will his foot hold up or wont it? either way i dont think its all that relevant. We are basically bringing back the exact same starting lineup we had from the playoffs only with mirza instead of pierce:

dwill
Anderson
Johnson
Mirza
KG/plumlee

off the bench we replace Blatche with Lopez, Mirza with Bogs, and Livingston with jack.

Jack
Brown
Bogdanovic
Plumlee/Kirilenko
Lopez

we probably could us an ivan johnson type insurance big for when AK misses some time. other then that we are pretty set. the nets arent contending for anything, but their floor is still .500+

Lopez only needs to play 18-20 mpg. and beat up on second unit centers. if he goes down, plumlee has shown he is capable of playing big minutes
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#222 » by Trader_Joe » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:47 am

Prokorov wrote:
Waylon Mercy wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Actually he was coming off the exact same major injury to the exact same foot.


Yup 2 years ago he was coming off one surgery now he's coming off two surgeries
and to the same foot...

That's why there's so many ?'s with him


is it still the same question mark? will his foot hold up or wont it? either way i dont think its all that relevant. We are basically bringing back the exact same starting lineup we had from the playoffs only with mirza instead of pierce:

dwill
Anderson
Johnson
Mirza
KG/plumlee

off the bench we replace Blatche with Lopez, Mirza with Bogs, and Livingston with jack.

Jack
Brown
Bogdanovic
Plumlee/Kirilenko
Lopez

we probably could us an ivan johnson type insurance big for when AK misses some time. other then that we are pretty set. the nets arent contending for anything, but their floor is still .500+

Lopez only needs to play 18-20 mpg. and beat up on second unit centers. if he goes down, plumlee has shown he is capable of playing big minutes

Yeah the more I think about our team, the more I'm fine with it.

We are bring back 10 players from last year and essentially the same team minus PP.
Keep in mind that team went 34-17 in 2014 despite all the injuries.

We're adding Lopez, AK will hopefully not miss so much time, and D.Will should have two cleaned out ankles (they removed bone spurs and cleaned out his ankles, so it's not as though there was a break or they were working on tendons or ligaments).

If you compare if to the 49 win team coached by Avery and PJC, we are much better both player wise and personnel wise.

'12-'13 - 49 wins
D.Will / Watson
JJ / Brooks
Wallace / Bogans
Evans / Hump
Lopez / Blatche

vs.

'14-15 - ?? wins
D.Will / J.Jack
JJ / Anderson
AK / Bogdanovic
Teletovic / Plumlee
Lopez / KG

Anything from Brown, Karasev, Teague and Jefferson will just be a bonus.

We'll be somewhere in the 6-8 range (hopefully)
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#223 » by Sebastian » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:48 am

il_knicks7 wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
kinghasnoequal wrote:
Ya with a fully healthy and unrusty rose though.


Well everything hinges on Rose, obviously. But this is the most talent any Thibodeau team has had. Barring serious injury, they're going to be some form of very good or great.


I fail to see how this Bulls team has more talent than the 2011 team with MVP Rose, a prime Boozer and Deng.
What talent does this team have? Butler? a 34 YO Gasol? is Gibson a "talent" now?


Is this a joke? This team has shooters and the best frontcourt in the league. Both Gasol and Gibson are better than 2011 Boozer.
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#224 » by Hello Brooklyn » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:58 am

Troubadour wrote:Few items:

1) Shaun Livingston v Jarret Jack
Livingston is the vastly superior defender. It's not even close. His size and quickness allows him to defend 1 through 3. Jack is a combo guard whose primary strength is scoring. He is a strong finisher and finds ways to score late in games. There is almost a complete overlap in his skills with Deron Williams' abilities as a player. Starting Joe Johnson against quicker 2s, AK47 at 3, and starting a traditional 4 will reverse any progress the Nets made as a small-ball team.

2) Losing Paul Pierce
He may not have had a great season, but he was the key to this team turning its season around. Without him as a stretch 4, the Nets' style of play would not have emerged. Lionel Hollins is also a traditional coach who I expect to play two bigs at all times.

3) Aging/Injuries
This is not the same Nets team that won 49 games two years ago. Lopez's stress fracture, Williams having surgery on both ankles, and the core becoming one of the oldest in the league will continue to show this year. Williams was woefully inconsistent, Lopez's lack of any mobility will force the Nets to change their defensive schemes, and the aging roster will force Hollins to coach his traditional style.

Williams / Jack
Johnson / Bogdanovic
AK47 / Anderson
KG / Teletovic
Lopez / Plumlee

Plumlee and Bogdanovic offer some youth, but the core players on this roster do not mesh well. Teams will double Lopez off of Kirilenko/Garnett on every possession. Without the spacing to punish teams that double, Lopez will be less effective in his return from a severe injury. Williams is not as adept as he once was in creating off the dribble and creating for others. Iso Joe can carry this team to a few wins, but he's no LeBron or Carmelo when it comes to carrying a team for a season.

Here's my #Hottake for the upcoming season: only one team from the Atlantic Division makes the playoffs (guess which team I think it is...haha).


1) Livingston is also an offensive liability. He has not shooting ability and people often play us 4 on 5 when hes away from the basket. Jack has proven with the Warriors he can be one of the best bench players in the league. I don't see why he can't do that again. The system in Cleveland was bad for him.

2) You didn't watch the Nets. He wasn't the "key" for the Nets. Johnson was the one who elevated his game. His game winner vs OKC was the first step towards the turn around. Pierce was there but he wasn't essential.

3) Fine. You can say Lopez will be unable to return properly from injury. If thats you argument, Im ok with it. However, I don't buy it. Hes been rehabbing all summer and he has shown the ability to return from injury before. Last year he looked really good. He had another dimension to his offensive game and he was finally starting to improve his defense. I expect the best version of Lopez weve ever seen, Second off, how are we an aging roster? Getting rid of Pierce did the opposite.

Deron and Johnson are not old. They are both barely 30 and are not gonna start declining just yet.

Again you say Johnson/Deron/Lopez don't mesh well. Yet, you seem to have forgotten 2013 season existed. They know how to play together.

I just don't see how this team is missing the playoffs. I don't see it winning less than 42 games. At the worst.
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#225 » by nuposse04 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:00 am

Assuming optimistic level of health levels and logical declines and ascents...

1-Cavs: I mean, any team with LBJ is going to do well (50+wins). But Wiggins looks like an immediate impact player, Bennett actually looks semi decent and they have decent players throughout. I'm no Kyrie fan but he compliments well here and will coattail off LBJ just like Wade did in order to inflate his perceived value.

2-Tor: They haven't lost anyone really worth a damn, and they have enough young talent to make incremental strides and possible tremendous strides by Jonas.

3- ATL: Key is Horford, if he stays heathy he's the best center in the east. Their offense is beautiful and can get even better.

4-Indy: This assumes they keep lance, If not, I could see them missing the playoffs all together. They are the most volatile team I think.

5- Was: Semi homerish pick from me, but I generally like our offseaon moves and Porter/Rice are showing well enough to stave off the loss of Ariza. I think Beal makes a jump this season, and Wall continues to get even better incrementally. Him and Gortat developed some superb chemistry last season post all star break. Key will be Nene of course. I expect him to miss 1/3rd of the season.

6- CHA I like their drafting but it needs to show now. Williams was a decent player in his last year in ATL so hopefully he reinvents himself. I still don't like CHA's wing play overall. Zeller and Vanleh need to step up otherwise they'll have the same issues I believe.

7- Bulls: They could be better, but getting Pau doesn't inspire me much. They lost Augustine who was damn good for em. DJ was putting up great advanced stats and per 36 stats for em. I'm aware Rose is "healthy" but color me skeptical in thinking he will be as efficient this season. I also expect an even **** year out of Kirk.

8- Heat: Bosh is good enough to make em treadmill worth, so is the addition of Deng.
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#226 » by Waylon Mercy » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:01 am

Prokorov wrote:
Waylon Mercy wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Actually he was coming off the exact same major injury to the exact same foot.


Yup 2 years ago he was coming off one surgery now he's coming off two surgeries
and to the same foot...

That's why there's so many ?'s with him


isnt it still the same question mark? will his foot hold up or wont it? either way i dont think its all that relevant. We are basically bringing back the exact same starting lineup we had from the playoffs only with mirza instead of pierce:

dwill
Anderson
Johnson
Mirza
KG/plumlee

off the bench we replace Blatche with Lopez, Mirza with Bogs, and Livingston with jack.

Jack
Brown
Bogdanovic
Plumlee/Kirilenko
Lopez

we probably could us an ivan johnson type insurance big for when AK misses some time. other then that we are pretty set. the nets arent contending for anything, but their floor is still .500+

Lopez only needs to play 18-20 mpg. and beat up on second unit centers. if he goes down, plumlee has shown he is capable of playing big minutes


The Nets fan I was debating with is insinuating that it will be the same Brook Lopez from 2 years ago
as if its a given he will be the stud he was...

The ? marks with him are...

1) Can he be a stud again after his 2nd surgery
2) Can he stay healthy for an entire season
3) Will he be on a minutes restriction

I agree though I have the Nets in the 6-9 range
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#227 » by Hello Brooklyn » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:09 am

Waylon Mercy wrote:

2 years ago...

Lopez wasn't coming off another major injury, D-Will was still considered an elite PG and
didn't look like he lost a step and JJ was 31 as opposed to 33 where father time could kick
in at anytime.

Also the dynamic of the East has changed a lot since then and looks to be more competitive
since then.

As for Paul Pierce not being clutch in the regular season...

Truth Still Matters
Despite his struggles last season, Paul Pierce trailed only Kevin Durant and Damian Lillard in clutch-time 3-pointers (final five minutes of 4th quarter/OT when score is within five points). Here's a look:

Players Clutch 3's
Kevin Durant 20
Damian Lillard 19
Chris Bosh 16
Paul Pierce 16
Klay Thompson 15
-- ESPN Stats & Information


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11208 ... api_public

I think you guys will really miss Livingston defensively but Jack should be an offensive upgrade...

But I'm not sold on the Nets depth and all the ?'s you guys have to pencil you in to the
top 6-7 playoff spots in the East and it looks like almost all NBA pundits and fans agree.

How long will it take the Nets to adjust to Lionel Hollins system?
Can Brook Lopez stay healthy?
Will Brook Lopez be on a minute restriction?
Can Brook Lopez still play at a high level?
Can Deron Williams be an elite PG again especially after the work on his ankles?
Can Joe Johnson continue to fight off father time?
Can Jarrett Jack bounce back after an off year for him?
Is Teletovic and Plumlee expected to take a big leap?
Can you get anything out of the corpses of KG and AK47?

That's a lot of ?'s that most of the East playoff teams don't have


LOL 2 yeas ago is that long?

Actually youre wrong on all three counts.

Lopez WAS coming off of a major injury. So there goes that argument. D-Will absolutely did look like he lost a step. He hasnt even made an all-star team with the Nets outside of 2012. And although JJ wasn't 33, he was playing a lot worse then he did last year.

Maybe he did make clutch 3s. But I still don't see how others such as Johnson or Teletovic are incapable of hitting big 3s. They have done it before.
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#228 » by Troubadour » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:14 am

TommyTBolt wrote:1. Cavs
2. Wizards
3. Heat
4. Bulls
5. Knicks
6. Bobcats
7. Pacers
8. Hawks


.... :lol:
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#229 » by Waylon Mercy » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:23 am

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Waylon Mercy wrote:

2 years ago...

Lopez wasn't coming off another major injury, D-Will was still considered an elite PG and
didn't look like he lost a step and JJ was 31 as opposed to 33 where father time could kick
in at anytime.

Also the dynamic of the East has changed a lot since then and looks to be more competitive
since then.

As for Paul Pierce not being clutch in the regular season...

Truth Still Matters
Despite his struggles last season, Paul Pierce trailed only Kevin Durant and Damian Lillard in clutch-time 3-pointers (final five minutes of 4th quarter/OT when score is within five points). Here's a look:

Players Clutch 3's
Kevin Durant 20
Damian Lillard 19
Chris Bosh 16
Paul Pierce 16
Klay Thompson 15
-- ESPN Stats & Information


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11208 ... api_public

I think you guys will really miss Livingston defensively but Jack should be an offensive upgrade...

But I'm not sold on the Nets depth and all the ?'s you guys have to pencil you in to the
top 6-7 playoff spots in the East and it looks like almost all NBA pundits and fans agree.

How long will it take the Nets to adjust to Lionel Hollins system?
Can Brook Lopez stay healthy?
Will Brook Lopez be on a minute restriction?
Can Brook Lopez still play at a high level?
Can Deron Williams be an elite PG again especially after the work on his ankles?
Can Joe Johnson continue to fight off father time?
Can Jarrett Jack bounce back after an off year for him?
Is Teletovic and Plumlee expected to take a big leap?
Can you get anything out of the corpses of KG and AK47?

That's a lot of ?'s that most of the East playoff teams don't have


LOL 2 yeas ago is that long?

Actually youre wrong on all three counts.

Lopez WAS coming off of a major injury. So there goes that argument. D-Will absolutely did look like he lost a step. He hasnt even made an all-star team with the Nets outside of 2012. And although JJ wasn't 33, he was playing a lot worse then he did last year.

Maybe he did make clutch 3s. But I still don't see how others such as Johnson or Teletovic are incapable of hitting big 3s. They have done it before.


Ok I don't know why this is so hard to understand...

You keep on comparing the Nets from 2 years ago...

The Brook Lopez from 2 years ago was coming off ONE surgery to his foot...

The Brook Lopez today here in 2014 is coming off TWO surgeries to his foot...

Just because he was able to do it before doesn't mean he's guaranteed to do it again and since
he's your best player his health and level of play has a big impact on what the Nets do next year
especially since you lost Paul Pierce one of your better players.
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#230 » by Lazymanic » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:30 am

1. Bulls- - 54 Wins
2. Brooklyn- 51 wins
3. Wizards- 49 wins
4. Pacers-53 wins
5. Cleveland - 52 wins
6. Miami- 47 wins
7. Toronto- 46 wins
8. Hornet/Hawks- 40 wins
entire conference will be fairly close. 1-6 can be interchangeable.
10. Detroit
11. Knicks
12. Bucks
13. Orlando
14. Boston
15. Sixers
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#231 » by IGotDaMagicInMe » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:35 am

1. Pacers
2. Heat
3. Bulls
4. Raptors
5. Cavs
6. Wizards
7. Pistons
8. Magic
9. Hawks
10. Hornets
11. Nets
12. Knicks
13. Bucks
14. Celtics
15. Sixers
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#232 » by d1n9 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:01 am

1. Bulls
2. Pacers
3. Heat
4. Cavs
5. Wizards
6. Bobcats
7. Raptors
8. Hawks
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#233 » by Th3RaptorSwag » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:36 am

Eastern Conference:

1. Cleveland Cavaliers
2. Chicago Bulls
3. Indiana Pacers
4. Washington Wizards
5. Toronto Raptors
6. New York Knicks
7. Miami Heat
8. Atlanta Hawks
9. Brooklyn Nets
10. Charlotte Bobcats
11. Orlando Magic
12. Boston Celtics
13. Milwaukee Bucks
13. Detroit Pistons
15. Philadelphia 76ers
Toronto Raptors
Orlando Magic
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#234 » by majortom71 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:38 am

Th3RaptorSwag wrote:Eastern Conference:

1. Cleveland Cavaliers
2. Chicago Bulls
3. Indiana Pacers
4. Washington Wizards
5. Toronto Raptors
6. New York Knicks
7. Miami Heat
8. Atlanta Hawks
9. Brooklyn Nets
10. Charlotte Bobcats
11. Orlando Magic
12. Boston Celtics
13. Milwaukee Bucks
13. Detroit Pistons
15. Philadelphia 76ers


You have the Knicks higher than the Heat and Hawks, even Knicks fans would disagree with you! :lol:
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#235 » by il_knicks7 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:39 am

Sebastian wrote:Is this a joke? This team has shooters and the best frontcourt in the league. Both Gasol and Gibson are better than 2011 Boozer.


When somebody starts calling Taj Gibson a "talent" or "better than somebody" is just about the time lunacy has taken over the conversation and it's time to step out. Also, when you talk about Pau Gasol as if It's 2010 and not 2014 - that's a time to end the conversation. That team will not be nearly as good as you think it will.
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#236 » by NBAfan3024 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:03 am

Can't believe some have Miami ahead of LeBron's Cavs. Didn't anybody see how much they depended on him all year?
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#237 » by majortom71 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:14 am

NBAfan3024 wrote:Can't believe some have Miami ahead of LeBron's Cavs. Didn't anybody see how much they depended on him all year?

You can't just plug in a player and say now this team will win a championship.
There are many dynamics to this, otherwise the Nets (Pierce/Garnett) and Lakers (Nash/Howard) would have done a lot better than they did.
If all goes well, yea they can be at top of list but usually it does not work like this.

Also I am surprised some people have the Hawks at the bottom or even out of playoffs. :noway:
They took the Pacers to 7 with their best player out!
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#238 » by NBAfan3024 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:20 am

majortom71 wrote:
NBAfan3024 wrote:Can't believe some have Miami ahead of LeBron's Cavs. Didn't anybody see how much they depended on him all year?

You can't just plug in a player and say now this team will win a championship.
There are many dynamics to this, otherwise the Nets (Pierce/Garnett) and Lakers (Nash/Howard) would have done a lot better than they did.
If all goes well, yea they can be at top of list but usually it does not work like this.

Also I am surprised some people have the Hawks at the bottom or even out of playoffs. :noway:
They took the Pacers to 7 with their best player out!
I'm not saying Cavs win it all or are a lock to be best in the east bit Miami ahead of them? Can't see that at all.
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#239 » by Sebastian » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:26 pm

il_knicks7 wrote:
Sebastian wrote:Is this a joke? This team has shooters and the best frontcourt in the league. Both Gasol and Gibson are better than 2011 Boozer.


When somebody starts calling Taj Gibson a "talent" or "better than somebody" is just about the time lunacy has taken over the conversation and it's time to step out. Also, when you talk about Pau Gasol as if It's 2010 and not 2014 - that's a time to end the conversation. That team will not be nearly as good as you think it will.


What exactly do you value in a basketball player, then? I would love to know. Defensive ability is a skill or talent worth extolling, and Taj Gibson is arguably the best defender in the world at his position. On top of that he has a more than serviceable offensive game -- if the only Bulls games you watched last season were the 5 against the Wiz you would know at least that much.
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Re: Early Top 8 in the East projections. 

Post#240 » by Chuck Everett » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:36 pm

Some of these points are hilarious. We got people saying how good Marvin Williams was last year in "Atlanta." Some of you don't pay attention to the league at all.

As of right now, the only Eastern Conference teams who won't make the playoffs (barring major trades): Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Orlando and Boston. Everyone else is in it.
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