Jr smith on first take

[nyJnyKnyY]

let me dumb it down for you

shumpert goes 2-7 and smith goes 8-20

who was the least productive?

Depends... How many threes did smith make? 8? 24 points... Wouldn't be mad at it


NYK
NYJ
NYY

[Fat Kat]

That's not really cool of JR to be talking about Tysons personal issues like that in public. If I was Tyson, I'd be pretty angry right now.

He was trying to shed light on why Tyson played like a punkbitch. Tyson should thank him.

I missed it what did JR say about Tyson? He should of called him a punk bitch who quit on the team

- Tyson Chandler and Raymond Felton's discombobulation factored into the overall lack of execution. "A lot of pick-and-roll situations we weren't agreeing on, and that right there will kill you...."

- Chandler also had personal issues, like his mother's health, which hurt his on-court play.

[goldengirlpromo]

Shumpert shows up in the playoffs.

[Fat Kat]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShobpteHAEc&sns=em[/youtube]

[Thugger HBC]

Again I will repeat he was injured. Something people always gloss over

No, JR was suspended, he couldn't play because of that reason. The recovery from the injury was on him as well, should have gotten the surgery well before the time he did so he'd ready to play when the suspension was lifted.

Maybe he wouldn't of had a super efficient playoffs, but I doubt he would have been as terrible as he was.

No way to tell, but JR's "injuries" didnt hinder him until game three vs terry and the "elbow". Up until then he was playing well and nobody knew he was injured. It only came up to justify his unfocus and bad decision making.

Jeremy Lin had the same injury and he sat out the play offs. Then when he went to Houston he had a crappy start to the 12-13 season. So bad that people were saying that Felton was a better option over him.

I've always wondered why comparisons such as these are made. Lin is an average player and when he was injured everyone felt he should sit out....the Knicks werent beating Miami anyway. What happeneed in Houston...i'm sorry doesnt concern me pertaining to the Knicks.

JR has been consistent when healthy. Yes he has his occasional poor shooting nights, but so does Melo and every other NBA player.

You can't shoot 40% for a season and be considered a consistent shooter, and no, most players known as shooters/scorers do not do this. Melo doesnt either normally.

Plus JR can make up his poor shooting with rebounding and playmaking. Even in a year as poor as last year he was a top 10 3point shooter in the league and a top 5 catch and shoot player.

There was at least 20 players last season that shot better than 40% from three, I'm positive JR was NOT one of them.

Wont even address the catch and shoot as we rarely ran it for him but we'll see this year.

Plus he only makes 6 mil a year. There is no reason to dump him for just cap space. If that was the case Phil would have done it by now.

Phil would if he could, no one is calling the Knicks inquiring about JR....even when he opted out with a 6th man award in his hand no one was demanding his services.

Some guys just can't get it done with the talent they have. Phil and Fish may be able to get that out of him.

I dont doubt them, but I do doubt him.

[BugginOut]

Again I will repeat he was injured. Something people always gloss over

No, JR was suspended, he couldn't play because of that reason. The recovery from the injury was on him as well, should have gotten the surgery well before the time he did so he'd ready to play when the suspension was lifted.

Maybe he wouldn't of had a super efficient playoffs, but I doubt he would have been as terrible as he was.

No way to tell, but JR's "injuries" didnt hinder him until game three vs terry and the "elbow". Up until then he was playing well and nobody knew he was injured. It only came up to justify his unfocus and bad decision making.

Jeremy Lin had the same injury and he sat out the play offs. Then when he went to Houston he had a crappy start to the 12-13 season. So bad that people were saying that Felton was a better option over him.

I've always wondered why comparisons such as these are made. Lin is an average player and when he was injured everyone felt he should sit out....the Knicks werent beating Miami anyway. What happeneed in Houston...i'm sorry doesnt concern me pertaining to the Knicks.

JR has been consistent when healthy. Yes he has his occasional poor shooting nights, but so does Melo and every other NBA player.[/quoter]
You can shoot 40% for a season and be considered a consistent shooter, and no, most players known as shooters/scorers do not do this. Melo doesnt either normally.

Plus JR can make up his poor shooting with rebounding and playmaking. Even in a year as poor as last year he was a top 10 3point shooter in the league and a top 5 catch and shoot player.

There was at least 20 players last season that shot better than 40% from three, I'm positive JR was NOT one of them.

Wont even address the catch and shoot as we rarely ran it for him but we'll see this year.

Plus he only makes 6 mil a year. There is no reason to dump him for just cap space. If that was the case Phil would have done it by now.

Phil would if he could, no one is calling the Knicks inquiring about JR....even when he opted out with a 6th man award in his hand no one was demanding his services.

Some guys just can get it done with the talent they have. Phil and Fish may be able to get that out of him.

I dont doubt them, but I do doubt him.

JR didn't get the surgery because he wanted guaranteed money before he went under the knife.

Doesn't the fact that he played well before game 4 make it all the more likely that he got injured during game 3 or the 4 days between game 4 and 5?

I just made the comparison based on the injury. It took JR and Lin coming off their respective injuries to get to their same level of normal play

He shot .394%, which if you consider the volume and amount he made per game is elite.

How do you know? Do you have inside information with Phil? The reason he didn't get paid is because he had a crappy postseason. Like how if Lance didn't blow in Lebrons ear he would have got more

[louieOrr]

My whole thing with JR is that he was failed miserably by both Mikes. He played good enough under Karl but George was just too much of an old bitter white dude to get the most of him. Karl reined him in and Woodson related with him. I see Fish as a guy who can both rein and relate.

If we trade JR it needs to include someone who can create their own shot because even in a system predicated on ball movement, you need multiple pieces who can create their own shot when push comes to shove.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Serious Question,

Just for clarity and context because I am ignorant to the "nuances" you seem to refer to. What exactly would be the difference if Carl had been a "bitter white dude" as opposed to if Carl were a bitter dude of a some other race? Also when you make that distinction, what other race of coach was it you had in mind that was different from the old white dude Carl?

[Thugger HBC]

JR didn't get the surgery because he wanted guaranteed money before he went under the knife.

Way to go JR...typical for a non contributor. Have surgery late and not be ready for the next season.

Doesn't the fact that he played well before game 4 make it all the more likely that he got injured during game 3 or the 4 days between game 4 and 5?

Smith first suffered knee pain and swelling in early March. According to a source, it flared up again in the playoffs.

The New York Post, which earlier reported the injury, reports that Smith likely will have his knee drained in the next two weeks.

Smith got off to a strong start in his first three playoff games, averaging 16.3 points on 43.5 percent shooting. But Smith was suspended for Game 4 of the Knicks-Celtics series for elbowing Jason Terry in the face, then his play suffered. Smith scored 13.5 points on 29 percent shooting in the eight games after the suspension.


http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/9304986/jr-smith-new-york-knicks-played-fluid-knee-postseason-source

I just made the comparison based on the injury. It took JR and Lin coming off their respective injuries to get to their same level of normal play

There was nothing Lin could do to affect the outcome against Miami...a better playing JR definitely ends the Boston series in at worst 4 games, not 6 which had the greatest impact against Indy.

He shot .394%, which if you consider the volume and amount he made per game is elite.

solid, not top 10, not even close though.

How do you know? Do you have inside information with Phil? The reason he didn't get paid is because he had a crappy postseason. Like how if Lance didn't blow in Lebrons ear he would have got more

JR has never gotten paid even with better post seasons. He always hovered around average salary. I No one was gonna call for his services as he is what he is.

Do you honestly believe the blowing in LeBrons ear prevented Lance from getting league wide interest?

Do I really have to have inside info to understand Phil's thinking from the decades he's been involved with the NBA?

For culture reasons JR needs to bounce, and there's a myriad of other reasons.

[god shammgod]

no sense in arguing, phil will do what he's gonna do with jr. nobody knows what that is.

[Dave_Dinero_23]

They're the exception because they were part of the problem, Tyson quit and Felton's just fat

Felton was just not talented, he never really got it going in the pros the way people wanted him to or the way he thought he did...

As for JR Smith, I am glad he talked a good game but I would still honestly rather move him off the team, Melo has had him around his whole career I think we need to split the two of them up, I honestly think Melo would grow as a person.

I think it would be good for Smith too.

JR just needs to get his head together and play like he did when he won 6th man and he'd be worth every penny and then some...I believe him when he said his knee took him a while to come back from, now that he'll start the season healthy we'll see better ball from him from the start....for what he gets paid 16pts 4reb 3ast isnt terrible

[Mike Breen]

SAS actually asked some pretty tough questions. Good interview.

I like JR btw.

Peace, y'all.

[Deeeez Knicks]

JR will soon be gone and you will all like it.

[ctorres]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... elog/2014/

JR first 29 games:
11.3 ppg (34.8% FG's, 33.9% 3PT FG's)
10 wins, 19 losses

JR's last 45 games:
16.5 ppg (45.3% FG's, 42.6% 3PT FG's)
24 wins, 21 losses

There are no peaks and valleys when you look at those game logs. He went straight up Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, extremely two different JR's. There is a very clear cut off between the time he was horrible (first 29 games), and the time he was actually good (last 45 games).

The first game of the last 45 games was the Philly game, and it was the first game he played right after having been benched for bad behavior throughout the season. After that Philly game, he was honestly a good soldier for the rest of the season and incredibly consistent.

I have no doubt that if JR had played even just a tad bit better during those first 29 games, Knicks make the playoffs. Even with Stoudemire, Chandler, Bargnani, Felton, and Shumpert all being terrible the entire season, we make the playoffs if JR plays well those first 29 games.

Knicks were overly reliant on JR playing well in order for them to win. We could not afford a single bad stretch from JR. We needed JR to be the 2nd best player on the team for 82 games, when he was making far less money than Stoudemire, Chandler, and Bargnani. Overall, Felton and Shumpert were both worse than JR throughout the season, but because JR's performance during the first 29 games was so bad, it allowed Felton, Shumpert, and everyone else on the team to fall completely under the radar. Those 29 games were so bad, that it did not matter that JR played so well during the last 45 games, he could never live down those 29 games.

The bad play, antics, bad behavior totally did him in in those particular 29 games did him in. It's like the last 45 games never happened, JR's year was defined by those first 29 games. Heck, Felton got arrested on gun charges and he still did not get as much heat as JR.

[ctorres]

He shot .394%, which if you consider the volume and amount he made per game is elite.

solid, not top 10, not even close though.

To say, "not top 10, not even close", that's not fair man. 39.4% was 25th best in the league.

http://stats.nba.com/leadersGrid.html?S ... CT*GE*39.0

Also, only FIVE guys in the ENTIRE NBA shot 39.4% or better from the 3PT line while attempting 480+ threes for the season.

Stephen Curry - 42.4% on 615 attempts
Klay Thompson - 41.7% on 535 attempts
Gerald Green - 40.0% on 510 attempts
JR Smith - 39.4% on 480 attempts
Damian Lillard - 39.4% on 554 attempts

http://stats.nba.com/leadersGrid.html?S ... G3A*GE*480

You want to call JR an **** or a douchebag, that's fine. To say he loses more games for us than he wins, you can have that too. Would it be addition by subtraction by getting rid of JR? Most likely.

However, to say he's "not even close" to being an elite 3PT shooter when there are plenty of stats to make up a very reasonable, plausible argument?!?! Be a little balanced here man. Don't let your personal bias against JR cloud your judgment.

[realgm jesus]

Woodson is a players coach and needs veterans on the team to reign in the ego's of the more talented players. I think that was the biggest problem last year.

Jr gave a decent interview. The fact that he alluded to the constant switching without throwing chandler or wodoson under the bus was classy.

Players like jr need strong coaches that can beat the bad instincts out of them. The problem is he and melo are really good "in the moment" they need a system that leaves the defense guessing pass shoot or drive. If you limit Jr to 12 attempts and 3-5 3s attempted, that's his peak efficiency.

[ctorres]

Woodson is a players coach and needs veterans on the team to reign in the ego's of the more talented players. I think that was the biggest problem last year.

Jr gave a decent interview. The fact that he alluded to the constant switching without throwing chandler or wodoson under the bus was classy.

Players like jr need strong coaches that can beat the bad instincts out of them. The problem is he and melo are really good "in the moment" they need a system that leaves the defense guessing pass shoot or drive. If you limit Jr to 12 attempts and 3-5 3s attempted, that's his peak efficiency.

Crazy to think we actually have to limit a 39.4% 3PT shooter to 3-5 attempts per game. JR shot that percentage on 6.5 attempts per game.

As I posted above, guys like Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, Gerald Green, and Damien Lillard put up just as many threes and pretty much shot the same percentage as JR.

I guess cause those other guys are well behaved and model citizens, they're elite 3PT shooters. Since JR is not as well behaved and makes bad decisions completely unrelated to his 3PT shooting, then he is automatically not even close to being an elite 3PT shooter like those guys.

Honestly, there is some sort of double standard going on here.

[Red Vines]

In his 10th season he untying shoelaces and getting suspended for drug use...BUT SEASON 11 IS THE YEAR HE TURNS IT ALL AROUND!!!

[suicidedeuce]

He shot .394%, which if you consider the volume and amount he made per game is elite.

solid, not top 10, not even close though.

To say, "not top 10, not even close", that's not fair man. 39.4% was 25th best in the league.

http://stats.nba.com/leadersGrid.html?S ... CT*GE*39.0

Also, only FIVE guys in the ENTIRE NBA shot 39.4% or better from the 3PT line while attempting 480+ threes for the season.

Stephen Curry - 42.4% on 615 attempts
Klay Thompson - 41.7% on 535 attempts
Gerald Green - 40.0% on 510 attempts
JR Smith - 39.4% on 480 attempts
Damian Lillard - 39.4% on 554 attempts

http://stats.nba.com/leadersGrid.html?S ... G3A*GE*480

You want to call JR an **** or a douchebag, that's fine. To say he loses more games for us than he wins, you can have that too. Would it be addition by subtraction by getting rid of JR? Most likely.

However, to say he's "not even close" to being an elite 3PT shooter when there are plenty of stats to make up a very reasonable, plausible argument?!?! Be a little balanced here man. Don't let your personal bias against JR cloud your judgment.

Splits:

Nov: 28.6% (10 games)
Dec: 39.8% (15 games)
Jan: 39.1% (14 games)
Feb: 39.7% (12 games)
Mar: 40.2% (16 games)
Apr: 46.3% (7 games)

[suicidedeuce]

In his 10th season he untying shoelaces and getting suspended for drug use...BUT SEASON 11 IS THE YEAR HE TURNS IT ALL AROUND!!!

You're not paying close enough attention.

He doesn't have to turn it all around.

He's a good NBA player who had a tough first 3rd of the season and played some of the best ball of his career the last 3rd.

[Red Vines]

In his 10th season he untying shoelaces and getting suspended for drug use...BUT SEASON 11 IS THE YEAR HE TURNS IT ALL AROUND!!!

You're not paying close enough attention.

He doesn't have to turn it all around.

He's a good NBA player who had a tough first 3rd of the season and played some of the best ball of his career the last 3rd.

He has to learn the triangle offense which is pretty much the opposite of his game. And he's an idiot.