Early Top 8 in the East projections.

[EscapoTHB]

I think the thing with the Nets is that last season they really struggled for the first half of the season with their identity, and Jason Kidd took awhile to settle in as a coach. They were the top team in the conference the second half of the season. I don't think they'll be THAT next year, but I do think they have gotten a little better, they'll be better coached, and that extra year with everyone together will help. Plus they should have Lopez back.

I don't have a problem with people putting the Raptors over them either, but you have to admit the difference next season between the Raptors, Wizards, Nets, and Hawks might be negligible, and where they rank may just come down to injuries. You could actually throw the whole eastern conference into that.

Every eastern conference playoff team is much more thin this year(except Chicago, and maybe Brooklyn), and all it would take is a key injury to turn a playoff team into a lottery team.

I know I picked Chicago third, but I'm actually starting to warm to the idea of them winning the conference next year. Thibs even with bad talent is good for 3rd in the East. If their additions pan out, coupled with Thibs playoff style regular season, they could absolutely put up a ridiculous win total.

[Trader_Joe]

How would Chicago not be the top one or two? Aside from, obviously, Cleveland, what other team has improved as much as Chicago? They've dumped Boozer, lost Augustin, but they're getting back Rose and have added Gasol, Mirotic and McDermott. Finishing between three and five? They were four last year without Rose and Deng and the Heat and Pacers, who were above them, are now weakened. Thibs can coach. Mirotic and McDermott might not be the next Dirks, but they aren't gonna be bad under Thibs.

Anyway, this is all on paper now, but looking at projected starting line-ups, who is better, position-by-position? Of course, anything can happen in terms of injuries, chemistry, trades, etc., but, saying the Bulls are a fifth seed in a still weak conference is a little ridiculous.

I think it all depends on whether or not you think Rose can stay healthy and if healthy, be the player he once was.

It seems most people are dropping BK down to a lotto team (despite returning a majority of a team that went 34-17 in 2014) because of the injury concerns to D.Will (he didn't have an injury, rather had his ankles cleaned out, something he should have done last summer) and Lopez (the real question mark). So if people are expecting the worst there and factoring in those, injuries, I can understand why many of those same people would be expecting the worst for Rose.

I know many Bulls fans this time last year were expecting the #1 seed, or at worst the #2 seed. Most of those that did not agree (including myself) cited Rose as my concern. I still am worried about him. His game is one of the most athletically based games in the league. His advantages were his quickness and athleticism. It might be a lot to expect him to a. be able to do what he used to or b. remain healthy. There is also that mental barrier he has to cross.

I think Chicago's main competition will be Cleveland for obvious reasons.

I also think Washington will be a 3 seed at worst because of their division and has a chance to be better as well. Depending on Wall/Rose, they have the ability to outmatch Chicago at PG, SG, SF and they also have a stable of big men in Nene/Gortat/Humphries/Gooden/Blair.

Indiana you can't count out.
They lost Lance, but that also might improve their chemistry and help Hibbert bounce back

[Prokorov]

Yea, The Nets probably dont have a high ceiling, but to count them out of the playoffs seems a bit off. We have a pretty high floor with so many veterans and the talent level.

Deron Williams | Jarrett Jack
Alan Anderson | Bojan Bogdanovic
Joe Johnson | Andrei Kirilenko
Mirza Teletovic | Mason Plumlee
Kevin Garnett | Brook Lopez

Thats the same starting lineup we finsihed the year with only with mirza in place of Pierce, and then bench you are adding brook lope to a cast of pretty solid playes. I just dont see how that team finsihes under .500, even if lopez misses time to injury

Given we're back to our original "big 3" and considering Hollins is much closer to Avery/PJC than Kidd, I think it makes most sense to compare that team to the 49 win team from 2 years ago.

Deron Williams | Jarrett Jack
Joe Johnson | Bojan Bogdanovic
Alan Anderson | Andrei Kirilenko
Mason Plumlee l Mirza Teletovic
Brook Lopez | Kevin Garnett
vs.
Deron Williams | CJ Watson
Joe Johnson | MarShon Brooks
Gerald Wallace | Keith Bogans
Reggie Evans l Kris Humphries
Brook Lopez | Andray Blatche

PG: I'll take Deron with cleaned out ankles and Jarret Jack over the wildly inconsistent Deron we had that year and Watson.
Edge 2014.

SG: Joe had his best season as a Net last year, and I'm much more intrigued by Bogdanovic than Brooks. Joe also had Plantar F. in 2012.
Edge 2014.

SF: Wallace was a disaster that year. At least Anderson can make 3 pointers and AK is a major upgrade over Bogans.
Edge 2014.

PF: We actually have a PF that can shoot in Teletovic and Plumlee is a much better player than Evans.
Edge 2014.

C: This is what it all comes down to.. Brook. He was an AS and had a great season that year. If he isn't healthy KG and Plumlee are in tow, but they still aren't Brook.
Edge 2012 for now.

Hollins vs Avery/PJC
Considering Avery and PJC are still looking for jobs years later, says it all.
Edge 2014.

Hollins gets stereotyped as a slow paced coach, but he really isnt, that was just the obvious direction when he had zbo and Gasol. he has said he wants a fast paced with this nets team and can adapt his system to the players. I'd think he would want to build off last year, and not go back to what we did 2 years ago.

eihter way, i see too much depth and talent for the nets to be a sub .500 team

[Tacoma]

while we lack quality individual defenders I think we'll be much better as a team defensively

Phil is running this team not Woodson that alone tells me the effort will be there

As long as we stick to our assignments, limit how much we gamble and meet guys at the rim I think we'll be okay defensively

lmao
cant stop laughing watching that one.

Yes, but watch the referee to the left signalling a travelling call. The Knicks defense did their job, they got the stop.

[Cliff Levingston]

The talking heads in the media will have you think otherwise, but I do not see them faring better than the Cavs/Raps/Wash.

Well, your one-line declarations have certainly convinced Cliff Levingston. 5th seed it is!

[Cliff Levingston]

I think it all depends on whether or not you think Rose can stay healthy and if healthy, be the player he once was.

It seems most people are dropping BK down to a lotto team (despite returning a majority of a team that went 34-17 in 2014) because of the injury concerns to D.Will (he didn't have an injury, rather had his ankles cleaned out, something he should have done last summer) and Lopez (the real question mark). So if people are expecting the worst there and factoring in those, injuries, I can understand why many of those same people would be expecting the worst for Rose.

I know many Bulls fans this time last year were expecting the #1 seed, or at worst the #2 seed. Most of those that did not agree (including myself) cited Rose as my concern. I still am worried about him. His game is one of the most athletically based games in the league. His advantages were his quickness and athleticism. It might be a lot to expect him to a. be able to do what he used to or b. remain healthy. There is also that mental barrier he has to cross.

Can't disagree with anything here completely. It's all about remaining healthy. He'll be fine and look as good as ever athletically. He flashes a much better jumper in last year's preseason and looked like he was rounding his game out well before the ACL tear. Knocking the rust off will just be a matter of time. It's all about staying healthy and not getting that next big knee injury. The thing that sucks is that he could be fine for 70 games next year, then game 71, meniscus, or maybe even MCL, PCL, something, who knows.

Good points on the Nets as well. Cliff Levingston may have very well overlooked them in putting them out of the playoffs this year. About the only thing we know is that Cleveland will make the playoffs this year, bumping a playoff team from last year out. Who's that team? Atlanta was the 8 seed but did it without Horford for much of the year. Charlotte was the 7th but appears to have gotten better through Lance + internal development of their young guys. Brooklyn was 6th, Wizards 5th, Bulls 4th, Raptors 3rd, Heat 2nd and Pacers 1st. You could make nice argument for why each of these teams won't fall out of the playoffs and also why they will. That's pretty cool and hopefully will lead to some good, competitive and interesting stuff to watch in the East.

[stuporman]

I'm disappointed in the number of times the Knicks have been mentioned in the top 8... the few times they have seems way too high.

[Trader_Joe]

I think it all depends on whether or not you think Rose can stay healthy and if healthy, be the player he once was.

It seems most people are dropping BK down to a lotto team (despite returning a majority of a team that went 34-17 in 2014) because of the injury concerns to D.Will (he didn't have an injury, rather had his ankles cleaned out, something he should have done last summer) and Lopez (the real question mark). So if people are expecting the worst there and factoring in those, injuries, I can understand why many of those same people would be expecting the worst for Rose.

I know many Bulls fans this time last year were expecting the #1 seed, or at worst the #2 seed. Most of those that did not agree (including myself) cited Rose as my concern. I still am worried about him. His game is one of the most athletically based games in the league. His advantages were his quickness and athleticism. It might be a lot to expect him to a. be able to do what he used to or b. remain healthy. There is also that mental barrier he has to cross.

Can't disagree with anything here completely. It's all about remaining healthy. He'll be fine and look as good as ever athletically. He flashes a much better jumper in last year's preseason and looked like he was rounding his game out well before the ACL tear. Knocking the rust off will just be a matter of time. It's all about staying healthy and not getting that next big knee injury. The thing that sucks is that he could be fine for 70 games next year, then game 71, meniscus, or maybe even MCL, PCL, something, who knows.

Good points on the Nets as well. Cliff Levingston may have very well overlooked them in putting them out of the playoffs this year. About the only thing we know is that Cleveland will make the playoffs this year, bumping a playoff team from last year out. Who's that team? Atlanta was the 8 seed but did it without Horford for much of the year. Charlotte was the 7th but appears to have gotten better through Lance + internal development of their young guys. Brooklyn was 6th, Wizards 5th, Bulls 4th, Raptors 3rd, Heat 2nd and Pacers 1st. You could make nice argument for why each of these teams won't fall out of the playoffs and also why they will. That's pretty cool and hopefully will lead to some good, competitive and interesting stuff to watch in the East.

If I had to guess right now, it's Atlanta missing the playoffs.

They were a #3 seed with Horford, but keep in mind that was early on when teams like Brooklyn, Toronto, Chicago, Washington were no where near the teams they were later on the season. Chicago was 12-18 at one point, Brooklyn 10-21, Washington 16-19, Toronto 7-13.

They're getting Horford back, but otherwise they've added Sefalosha who had a terrible season last year, Kent Bazemore and Adrien Payne. They've potentially lost Elton Brand (a very important piece for them) and Lou Williams. They did only win 38 games last year narrowly edging out NY.

Miami is the other team I would look out for.
Cleveland went from 61 wins to 19 wins after LBJ left. A 42 win difference.
They are losing LBJ, Allen, Lewis, J.Jones after jettisoning M.Miller last year. Their shooting is gone.
McRoberts was a nice pick-up for the price, but is still probably a below average starting PF, Deng's numbers have been on the decline for a couple years and he looked especially bad in Cleveland, while Granger has looked done for a couple years. They are also relying on Wade to be healthy and carry them...along with Bosh who hasn't had to do that in some time. They might have a chip on their shoulder, but IMO losing LBJ is devastating to any team.

I don't think Brooklyn is a lock by any stretch of the imagination, but if they have some semblance of health they should be in. However, they have the most injury concerns of any team.


Anyway...that's why they play the games.
Remember everyone insisted the top 5 in the East last year was:

Miami
Indy
Chicago
Brooklyn
NY

As though it was written in stone. 3 of the 5 were correct.

[Keller61]

Lots of Bulls fans on this board. Winning the Conference? Finishing ahead of the Cavs/Wiz/Raps? Keep dreaming.

you don't follow the league a lot do you?

How will the Bulls finish #1 in the Conference? Enlighten me. I think they will finish 3-5.

The Bulls won 48 games last year with the 28th ranked offense. Now they are getting back one of the best offensive players in the league, along with some other additions.

[flash22]

you don't follow the league a lot do you?

How will the Bulls finish #1 in the Conference? Enlighten me. I think they will finish 3-5.

The Bulls won 48 games last year with the 28th ranked offense. Now they are getting back one of the best offensive players in the league, along with some other additions.

They also played an historically awful conference that is believe or not, getting stronger.

[Lazymanic]

For those who thinks losing Pierce will hurt BK during the regular season clearly doesn't see Pierce play during the first half of season the past couple of years. Pierce mails it in the first half of season before getting to shape and playing well towards the end.
The Atlantic is going to tough fight between Nets and Toronto assuming Lowry keeps up his level of play.

[Trader_Joe]

For those who thinks losing Pierce will hurt BK during the regular season clearly doesn't see Pierce play during the first half of season the past couple of years. Pierce mails it in the first half of season before getting to shape and playing well towards the end.
The Atlantic is going to tough fight between Nets and Toronto assuming Lowry keeps up his level of play.

That is true and the poor play of him and KG were a big reason for the 10-21 start. He was, however, big for us in 2014 in the regular season. If anything his play (specifically his D) dropped off in the playoffs.

Toronto will be fine. Even if that was a contract year performance by Lowry, he's still one of the best PGs in the East and they have one of the best back-ups in Vasquez.

[HSOB SIRHC]

I don't get it. Nets fans say they won't miss Pierce cause he was garbage during the first half of the season, yet the Nets will be better because they will have Lopez back.... The same guy that was part of the problem to start the season? I also think losing Livingston will hurt the Nets a lot more than they believe. Wasn't he one of the reasons why the team started turning it around?

[nuposse04]

I don't get why all of a sudden the Bulls have "depth" which is really their Achilles heal. Rounding per 36, Boozer was 18-11 with a TS of 49% (yikes) while Pau was 20-11 per 36 with a TS of 52% (which is still low for a F/C) both had the same WS/48. I do think Pau is somewhat of an upgrade, but it shouldn't be misconstrued with someone who will change their playoff fortunes.

They have no proven wing depth(Rookies get no benefit of the doubt, although mcdermott could be like Kyle Korver good I suppose in a couple seasons) and they have no proven PG until Rose shows for a couple months. They'll get their starters run into the ground prototypically if they have to, and I suspect they'll win their fair share of games, but even if they somehow win 45+ games, their style of play will be meaningless in the playoffs unless Rose is dominant. Noah needs some semblance of a post game or mid range game when push comes to shove.

[kf96]

pistons will be alot better then people think they upgraded the coach and got better shooters

[Chicago-Bull-E]

The bulls still have a lot of question marks. The health of Rose, not having a secondary play maker, whether or not the two rookies can produce, if either of their young wings can take their games to the next level (butler, snell), and overall health of a group of individuals that have lengthy injury histories.

If the answers to these questions end up mostly positive, I see a top 2 seed. If they aren't, they could be around 5-7.

[Trader_Joe]

I don't get it. Nets fans say they won't miss Pierce cause he was garbage during the first half of the season, yet the Nets will be better because they will have Lopez back.... The same guy that was part of the problem to start the season? I also think losing Livingston will hurt the Nets a lot more than they believe. Wasn't he one of the reasons why the team started turning it around?

Different coach, different system
Hollins wasn't going to play small ball.
He likes a grind it out style and had his most success with post players like Gasol (a slow plodding C like Lopez) and Randolph.

That is why if anything I think a comparison to 2012's team is more appropriate since Hollins is closer to Avery/PJC than Kidd. That team won 49 games with Lopez being their best player and AS.

As for their turn around there were many factors:
-Kidd getting more comfortable
-The team coming together
-PP at PF
-Livingston at SG
-Johnson with a big 2nd half
-AK back from injury (he missed most of the first 2 months)
-Blatche was sent home to refocus/ he was suspended
-Plumlee came on strong with KG's absence
-KG played C exclusively
-Terry and Evans out, Thornton, Guitterez and Collins in
-Teletovic cam on strong
etc.

There were several factors going on and Livingston was one of them.. but also keep in mind he was benched in the Raptor series when the Nets were down 2-3 because Derozen was torching him and he's a liability on offense. Alan Anderson was inserted and the Nets won the next two games. Livingston also struggled to run the second unit and partly why they trade for Teague and signed Guitterez. He is essentially being replaced by two players.. Jack who is a better offensive player and hopefully can run the second unit better and Alan Anderson who plays comparable defense and can actually make three pointers.

Now, maybe you can explain to me what I brought up a few pages back.

The Nets are bringing back essentially the same roster (10 player being the same). The main difference are Livingston (explained above), Blatche (Lopez replaces him) and Pierce (his minutes will go to Anderson, Johnson, AK and Bogdanovic at SF... Plumlee, Teletovic and AK at PF). They were 34-17 in 2014 and one of the best teams in the East.

These two teams played less than 3 months ago, where in a very evenly matched series, the Nets pulled out the win. Even if you want to say there was a ref bias, I don't think there is any denying these two teams were as even matched as they come.

However, most Raptor fans don't have them as a playoff team and their team ranked rather high. (which may just be because of winning the Atlantic and an automatic top 4 seed). But, if the Raps are basically admitting they lost to a lotto team in the East, how can the Raps be taken seriously this season? They are returning basically the same roster as well.

If you go back a page I laid this out in better detail.
It just seems confusing to me.
It's very plain to see that Raptor fans are ranking the Nets significantly lower than the rest of the board, making their loss to BK look even worse.

[Lazymanic]

I don't get it. Nets fans say they won't miss Pierce cause he was garbage during the first half of the season, yet the Nets will be better because they will have Lopez back.... The same guy that was part of the problem to start the season? I also think losing Livingston will hurt the Nets a lot more than they believe. Wasn't he one of the reasons why the team started turning it around?

The Nets were 7-11 with Lopez last year and that was with injuries to Deron/Pierce/Ak47 and an ankle injury that he dealt with, the turnaround happen when the team got healthy without Lopez and started playing small ball.
In regards to losing Livingston we won't know the effect of it because we have a new coach and Livingston strived under Kidd.

Nets took a step back this offseason but leaving them out of the playoff seems extreme.

[Detective]

Is this Trader_Joe individual basically making duplicate posts of the same thing he said like 92389283982982983 pages ago? And not realizing that no one(and not just Raps fans) is really listening to the way he thinks the Nets should be listed? I mean, if you go back a bunch of pages, the Nets are either outside the playoff bracket or listed as a 8th seed on average(occasionally as 7th) but that's it. Even that weird dude who posts in the 3rd person POV basically had the same opinion.

I know that Raps fans are like 99.9% of this forum in the eyes of many(we're not really, more like 98%), but I'm pretty sure I saw a bunch of different team affiliation logos beside usernames who listed the Nets the way they did.

But still, it's kind of tragic watching this one man(or woman, I'm not gonna discriminate) battle against the odds, elements and the order of the universe(of this thread).

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW93CV6m-JU[/youtube]

[Q C]

I don't get how people don't realize how overrated the Raptors are. They finished as high as they did because the teams below them all had injuries and they were by far the healthiest team in the East. Brooklyn/Washington/Chicago/Charlotte/Atlanta all had injuries to starters that messed up their teams for long stretches while Toronto barely had a body go down all season. With an objective eye at rosters I don't think they are a top 8 team in the East with LeBron going to Cleveland, Rose/Lopez/Horford coming back, Indy and BKN redistributing talent to already decent teams like Wash and Char. Meanwhile Toronto has done literally almost nothing to keep up with the rest. Lou Williams?