The One And Only Offseason Thread 3

sunsbum · Post #681 » by **sunsbum** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:02 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:
sunsbum wrote:I just speak the truth, it's going to take an argument from God himself to convince me he deserves a penny more than Lowery.

*Lowry.* I am tired of seeing that extra "e." It's in like 80% of the Lowry posts around here. It's a fungus that keeps spreading. Kill it!!

Sorrey brah!! :nod:

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #682 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:04 pm

sunsbum wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:
sunsbum wrote:I just speak the truth, it's going to take an argument from God himself to convince me he deserves a penny more than Lowery.

*Lowry.* I am tired of seeing that extra "e." It's in like 80% of the Lowry posts around here. It's a fungus that keeps spreading. Kill it!!

Sorrey brah!!

GetYourPHX · Post #683 » by **GetYourPHX** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:04 pm

TheXgasm wrote:Everyone is assuming he's pouting and throwing a fit and being a jerk about this. I don't see why - his agent is trying to maximize the contract, there's no need to rush into one with the Suns, they have the faint glimmer that some other team might still try to give him the max.

Waiting doesn't hurt him, it doesn't hurt us, and it doesn't make him some crybaby villain. If he comes out and says or acts like he doesn't want to be here at any point then fine, let's label him a jerk and move on with it, but right now both sides are playing the game. The Suns just have the advantage right now. No big deal.

And 1 and quoted for truth.

BobbieL · Post #684 » by **BobbieL** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:12 pm

sunsbum wrote:
BobbieL wrote:The positive about this offseason. It looks as if Bledsoe will be around for at most - 12m per season. Possibly Dragic comes back at 13m per season -give or take. That's not bad for two players just ready to take off in the NBA for the next half dozen years.

With the Laker pick, other picks, Morris twins, Len, Plumlee, Green, Thomas, Tucker - the Suns have a deep roster that will - if need be creates trade opportunities for that "third player" with Eric and Goran.

Ryan McD - awesome hire

Sarver - just please continue to let Ryan and Lon know what to spend and get the bleep out of their way. Thank you

I think Sarver deserves A LOT more credit than that. Are you going to hold it agains Gerald Green for being an absolute scrub for his first 8 years? It's a learning process for a "green" (no pun intended) owner too. Cut the guy some slack. As I've said before, for better or worse Sarver has ALWAYS tried to keep this team relative and competitive.

I have never said Sarver was cheap - he just shouldn't be the GM

That's what I mean by stay out of the way. Give the budget. Its totally fine with me that if what NotTraxxe said about not going ove rthe cap - that's fine - don't do something stupid to do something

I just want Sarver to keep letting Lon and Ryan do their thing. And if they never want to go over the lux tax but would go over the cap - totally fine. Just make sure Ryan knows this.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #685 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:16 pm

A look at Bledsoe's leverage: it isn't pretty. http://www.shamsports.com/2014/07/the-a ... -have.html

spanishninja · Post #686 » by **spanishninja** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:26 pm

yeah, looks like he's not really gonna get significantly better than 11million anywhere, unless philly has a food coma and proceeds to give him 14/yr. I don't see a team like the Bulls taking him. Maybe Orlando?

Dr Manute · Post #687 » by **Dr Manute** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:30 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:A look at Bledsoe's leverage: it isn't pretty. http://www.shamsports.com/2014/07/the-a ... -have.html

Only Phily can offer a max deal - which is not likely. Bledsoe needs to accept the fact - He is not a max player (yet). Just sign the Suns' contract and be thankfull it is there to sign. Waiting makes him look like a premadonna - fans don't like that.

spanishninja · Post #688 » by **spanishninja** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:32 pm

I wonder if we have pushed the 2-year as an alternative. That would work out for both parties honestly. And if he won't even take that, I dont know what to say.

Dr Manute · Post #689 » by **Dr Manute** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:36 pm

If Bledsoe waits until the last moment to accept the Suns offer, the Suns can play hardball and drastically reduce their offer (6 mil per year). What can he do? He has no leverage! 1) Accept the CO and become a UFA next year or, 2) sign the Suns lowball offer.

He needs to stop being a greedy little bitch and be happy he has the oportunity to play for Phoenix.

spanishninja · Post #690 » by **spanishninja** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:45 pm

Dr Manute wrote:If Bledsoe waits until the last moment to accept the Suns offer, the Suns can play hardball and drastically reduce their offer (6 mil per year). What can he do? He has no leverage! 1) Accept the CO and become a UFA next year or, 2) sign the Suns lowball offer.

He needs to stop being a greedy little bitch and be happy he has the oportunity to play for Phoenix.

at the same time we probably want to keep things civil with this Bledsoe situation, because this is going to come up again next year when Goran is expecting a contract. Dragic is taking notes on this whole scenario as we speak, and when it's his turn to negotiate with us, he won't make Bledsoe's mistakes.

Post #691 » by **Qwigglez** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:46 pm

Why haven't we signed Ennis yet?

Messing with trade machine I came up with this...

Suns get-
Al Horford

Hawks get-
Miles Plumlee
Gerald Green
Tyler Ennis
Lakers 2015 1st

I know Atlanta didn't finish with a winning record, but they made the playoffs with Horford only playing 29 games and played surprisingly well against the Pacers. IMO, the Hawks just need to add depth to their roster, and apparently nobody wants to go to the Hawks via free agency. This trade actually gives them more cap space and perhaps they offer Greg Monroe that max contract?

From the Suns perspective we add a low-post presence. I feel like Green was going to command a salary the Suns wouldn't be able to commit to after this season anyway, I think trading him while his value is high is smart. We have a four man rotation at PG/SG without Ennis/Green in Dragic/Bledsoe/Thomas/Goodwin, I don't think we need that to be a six man rotation, even with injuries throughout the season I'm sure we can call Ish Smith back if he hasn't found an NBA home. The only issue I have is Horford should be playing PF, but would most likely play center for us, he is a lot slower than Plumlee and a lot less athletic. We still have enough depth at every position, so I would do this trade, not sure about the Hawks side.

GetYourPHX · Post #692 » by **GetYourPHX** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:47 pm

Dr Manute wrote:He needs to stop being a greedy little bitch and be happy he has the oportunity to play for Phoenix.

Really? A professional negotiating his compensation is a "greedy little bitch"?

Come on now.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #693 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:52 pm

Qwigglez wrote:Why haven't we signed Ennis yet?

Messing with trade machine I came up with this...

Suns get-
Al Horford

Hawks get-
Miles Plumlee
Gerald Green
Tyler Ennis
Lakers 2015 1st

I know Atlanta didn't finish with a winning record, but they made the playoffs with Horford only playing 29 games and played surprisingly well against the Pacers. IMO, the Hawks just need to add depth to their roster, and apparently nobody wants to go to the Hawks via free agency. This trade actually gives them more cap space and perhaps they offer Greg Monroe that max contract?

From the Suns perspective we add a low-post presence. I feel like Green was going to command a salary the Suns wouldn't be able to commit to after this season anyway, I think trading him while his value is high is smart. We have a four man rotation at PG/SG without Ennis/Green in Dragic/Bledsoe/Thomas/Goodwin, I don't think we need that to be a six man rotation, even with injuries throughout the season I'm sure we can call Ish Smith back if he hasn't found an NBA home. The only issue I have is Horford should be playing PF, but would most likely play center for us, he is a lot slower than Plumlee and a lot less athletic. We still have enough depth at every position, so I would do this trade, not sure about the Hawks side.

Didn't think I'd see it, but someone's managed to come up with a trade for Horford that I hate. BTW, whose value is higher, Kieff or Horford? Kieff's better offensively I think, Horford defensively and on the glass. But the big kicker - Kieff has never been injured. Horford's like the PF version of Bledsoe, only worse, imo.

letsgosuns · Post #694 » by **letsgosuns** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:58 pm

When you examine Bledsoe and his desire for a max contract, it is a very difficult situation. On one hand, the Suns were awesome when him and Dragic played together. If I remember correctly, their record together was 23-11 when they both played, which obviously is very good. On the other hand, Bledsoe missed half the season, has had two knee surgeries, and his style of play sees him absorb lots of contact. It is always tough when your small point guard gets hits hard all game long. Derrick Rose is unfortunately a perfect example. An explosive point guard whose body has taken a beating, causing him to miss so much time. Even Kevin Johnson missed large amounts of games throughout his career. So as many posters have pointed out, do you want to pay max money to a guy that has had injury problems already at such a young age? I personally hope and think he will be okay, but you never know.

There is also the fact that I cannot remember a dual point guard system ever winning a championship. I have seen a system like the Suns have now produce really good teams, but never a champion. So is investing a large amount of money in Dragic and Bledsoe the answer? I do not know. All I know is that they are the Suns two best players and losing either of them will probably cause the Suns to take a step back this year. However, if taking a step back means accelerating the development of Archie Goodwin, who is a natural shooting guard, it could be worth it in the long run. I am a believer in a traditional basketball lineup where the biggest and strongest teams win the championship, and as long as the Suns play small, I do not see them winning a title.

spanishninja · Post #695 » by **spanishninja** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:04 pm

letsgosuns wrote:When you examine Bledsoe and his desire for a max contract, it is a very difficult situation. On one hand, the Suns were awesome when him and Dragic played together. If I remember correctly, their record together was 23-11 when they both played, which obviously is very good. On the other hand, Bledsoe missed half the season, has had two knee surgeries, and his style of play sees him absorb lots of contact. It is always tough when your small point guard gets hits hard all game long. Derrick Rose is unfortunately a perfect example. An explosive point guard whose body has taken a beating, causing him to miss so much time. Even Kevin Johnson missed large amounts of games throughout his career. So as many posters have pointed out, do you want to pay max money to a guy that has had injury problems already at such a young age? I personally hope and think he will be okay, but you never know.

There is also the fact that I cannot remember a dual point guard system ever winning a championship. I have seen a system like the Suns have now produce really good teams, but never a champion. So is investing a large amount of money into Dragic and Bledsoe the answer? I do not know. All I know is that they are the Suns two best players and losing either of them will probably cause the Suns to take a step back this year. However, if taking a step back means accelerating the development of Archie Goodwin, who is a natural shooting guard, it could be worth it in the long run. I am a believer in a traditional basketball lineup where the biggest and strongest teams win the championship, and as long as the Suns play small, I do not see them ever winning a title.

It's true that a dual point guard system has never won a championship, but we don't have two point guards. We have a point guard and a combo guard, which is much more versatile than just two traditional points. This has the potential of something like the Isiah Thomas/Joe Dumars backcourt from the early 90s, but of course they had Rodman and Laimbeer on the frontline and we have Plumlee and the Morrii. This can be fixed, but it will be harder to fix if we don't start re-establishing a 50-win ball-club for the next several years. If we can do that, then we bring back the fans, which will up the profits and get the league office and cable networks to give us more attention. Once that happens, I don't see why we won't be able to bolster our front line through free agency and make the next step.

NapoleonII · Post #696 » by **NapoleonII** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:05 pm

^^

It's definitely an abberation and they had a talented front court, but the bad boy pistons won it all (twice) with Isaiah Thomas (6'1) and Joe Dumars (6'3) as their leading scorers.

spanishninja · Post #697 » by **spanishninja** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:08 pm

yeah. I think what we have to worry about isn't that two small guards can't win a championship, but that an offense-only team is not going to win a championship.

King4Day · Post #698 » by **King4Day** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:08 pm

Dr Manute wrote:If Bledsoe waits until the last moment to accept the Suns offer, the Suns can play hardball and drastically reduce their offer (6 mil per year). What can he do? He has no leverage! 1) Accept the CO and become a UFA next year or, 2) sign the Suns lowball offer.

He needs to stop being a greedy little bitch and be happy he has the oportunity to play for Phoenix.

No doubt he'd take the QO and bolt next season. I'm sure we have a standing offer on the table and are waiting for him to accept it.
I think if Philly wanted him, then by now, they'd have thrown out the max offer. They have enough cap space to sign him ad any other moving parts they want. No reason they wouldn't have done it by now.
My guess is, they too don't think he's worth the max and know if they offer him 12-13, that we'll match anyway.

spanishninja · Post #699 » by **spanishninja** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:10 pm

I kind of just want somebody to throw him an offer sheet at this point. That way when we retain him he doesn't have to feel like we lowballed him, but that the market did.

Scutt · Post #700 » by **Scutt** » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:10 pm

Dr Manute wrote:If Bledsoe waits until the last moment to accept the Suns offer, the Suns can play hardball and drastically reduce their offer (6 mil per year). What can he do? He has no leverage! 1) Accept the CO and become a UFA next year or, 2) sign the Suns lowball offer.

He needs to stop being a greedy little bitch and be happy he has the oportunity to play for Phoenix.

Maybe Bledsoe doesn't like the system the Suns are rolling out? He is a player who is known to value defense, so it is possible he doesn't want to play on a team that runs a gimmick system that relies on living and dying by the 3. Perhaps he doesn't want to play small ball with a two guard lineup and wants to be on a team that values defense, rebounding, and getting your big men involved in the game? The Suns certainly are not doing those things, I truly believe the front office and most fans seem content to play run and gun and simply fight for the playoffs instead of building the team from the ground up, placing some value on the half court setting and defense.