Grunfeld a Great GM. Proves Doubters Wrong

[FAH1223]

Your argument conflicts. Every GM on the face of the earth have made mistakes. A horrible GM would not clean up his mistakes.

A good GM doesn't make as many mistakes in the first place

[stevemcqueen1]

Dude has been dead 5 years so settle down, seriously. If you have proof that all of Ernie's blunders pre-Leonsis (never mind during Leonsis) were due to Abe's meddling, by all means, continue with the conjecture. But until then let the guy who brought DC a franchise, and was a major reason for the city's revitalization, rest in peace.

100% Agreed. Yes, Abe lost touch as an owner the last 20 years or so of his life, but he was a good man and deserves respect. We don't need to be dragging his name into some sort of a defense for Ted or Ernie.

Bottom line, any rational fan acknowledges that Ted and Ernie have made several mistakes and missed several opportunities. But any rational fan will also acknowledge that every FO makes mistakes and misses opportunities. Getting bent out of shape over missed draft picks when you've got a good team now is just looking to be miserable. Especially missed second round picks, Good Lord.

I think most of us are just happy we've finally got a good team to cheer for.

[montestewart]

Why are so many Wizard fans mad right now? The only fans more upset than some of these Wizard fans are Heat fans.

Ernie is a horrible GM.

And he should have been canned a long time ago.

If this was a fresh face, I'd give the GM just due.

But everything Ernie does, I look at with great suspicion and critique. The guy sucks.

2009 and 2011 were so bad that these moves he's doing wouldn't have to be necessary.

Atleast he got Blair who never should have been a San Antonio Spur in the first place.

All Ernie does is clean up his mistakes.

I'd like to have a GM that doesn't sh%t the bed in the first place.

Your argument conflicts. Every GM on the face of the earth have made mistakes. A horrible GM would not clean up his mistakes.

Looks like you two might have found some common ground?
Not great, not horrible, just EG. That's a winning slogan right there.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Not great. Not horrible. Just EG.

Monte, you just made me laugh so hard I cried. That is a fitting slogan.

We aren't great. We might always be mediocre. But dammit, we're a long ways from crap!

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[hands11]

So what would be required for EG to be viewed as a great GM ? More accurately is probably should be worded a good GM or very good GM.

This should be interesting.

Me personally, I never like the Great GM title. It really wasn't about that. It was more about him being a competent GM or even an above average or good GM who had some luck break his way and that was operating under a poor owner with the wrong time line and mandates.

The argument here was those who said he was an decent GM and deserved a clean shot under Ted vs those that said he sucked and was one of the worst.

Well as more and more information comes in, it becoming more and more clear that Ted/EG is much better then Abe/EG.

[dckingsfan]

JEG (JustEG) = #soWizards

??

Just trying to unify the fields here

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

JEG (JustEG) = #soWizards

??

Just trying to unify the fields here

This summer, the summer of 2014, Ernie Grunfeld has graduated from being EFG (EexpletiveG) to becoming JEG.

We can unify on this:

JEG>>>EFG


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[Zonkerbl]

If EG lands KD and we subsequently win a championship, I will give full credit to EG as one of the best mf'ing GMs of all time.

Winning a championship is hard. Everybody gets a gold star if that happens.

[FAH1223]

So what would be required for EG to be viewed as a great GM ? More accurately is probably should be worded a good GM or very good GM.

This should be interesting.

Me personally, I never like the Great GM title. It really wasn't about that. It was more about him being a competent GM or even an above average or good GM who had some luck break his way and that was operating under a poor owner with the wrong time line and mandates.

The argument here was those who said he was an decent GM and deserved a clean shot under Ted vs those that said he sucked and was one of the worst.

Well as more and more information comes in, it becoming more and more clear that Ted/EG is much better then Abe/EG.

Quit blaming a dead guy for a dude's suckiness as a GM. Just quit doing it!

Ernie had a couple decent offseasons WITH Abe alive. 2005 probably being his best one but his first offseason in 2003 had him steal Gilbert from GSW on a pretty good contract.

Last I checked, Leonsis was the majority owner in 2011. Which was a DISASTER.

But for the most part he's had uninspired, lazy, horrible offseasons. He cannot draft, he gets fleeced in trades the vast majority of the time, and he overpays HIS guys with no inch of negotiations.

[DCZards]

But for the most part he's had uninspired, lazy, horrible offseasons. He cannot draft, he gets fleeced in trades the vast majority of the time, and he overpays HIS guys with no inch of negotiations.

Fleeced in trades the vast majority of times? Can you give a few examples? I would suggest that his trade record is pretty decent--50-50 at worse. For every #5 pick trade for Foye/Miller, there's been a Kwame for Caron type trade.

And this offseason EG has done a damn good job of not overpaying HIS guys, although some here wanted him to overpay Ariza. In fact, EG has gotten 2-3 guys in the past couple of weeks at what looks like bargain prices...with an eye toward having cap room in 2016.

[milellie111]

So what would be required for EG to be viewed as a great GM ? More accurately is probably should be worded a good GM or very good GM.

This should be interesting.

Me personally, I never like the Great GM title. It really wasn't about that. It was more about him being a competent GM or even an above average or good GM who had some luck break his way and that was operating under a poor owner with the wrong time line and mandates.

The argument here was those who said he was an decent GM and deserved a clean shot under Ted vs those that said he sucked and was one of the worst.

Well as more and more information comes in, it becoming more and more clear that Ted/EG is much better then Abe/EG.

Quit blaming a dead guy for a dude's suckiness as a GM. Just quit doing it!

Ernie had a couple decent offseasons WITH Abe alive. 2005 probably being his best one but his first offseason in 2003 had him steal Gilbert from GSW on a pretty good contract.

Last I checked, Leonsis was the majority owner in 2011. Which was a DISASTER.

But for the most part he's had uninspired, lazy, horrible offseasons. He cannot draft, he gets fleeced in trades the vast majority of the time, and he overpays HIS guys with no inch of negotiations.

Rightful blame is rightful blame...dead or alive.

No one is disrespecting Abe Pollin, however let's not act as if he didn't handcuff Grunfeld from doing his job at times. The Arenas deal was ALL Abe!! Even after the injuries he offered Gilbert $127 million!!! How do we know this? http://blog.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2008/07/pollin_and_arenas_chat_about_c.html "Well, Gilbert Arenas spoke with Wizards owner Abe Pollin this morning and said he was assured by Mr. Pollin that he's "his guy and he won't let me leave no matter what." This was all Abe's doing, he was in control so don't blame Ernie Grunfeld.

If we judge a player based on one coach and he's terrible, then he gets a new coach and does a 180, common sense would tell you that it was the fault of the previous coach for not maximizing his talents. The same applies to Grunfeld and a change in ownership.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

This offseason has seen Ernie go from SPED (special education) to GT (gifted and talent). He's moved to the head of the class among GMs.

Who among GMs or owners besides Dan Gilbert has had a better offseason? (Michael Jordan, perhaps?)

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[tontoz]

With no first round draft pick and no cap space there was less chance of screwing up.

Let's not forget that we sold another 2d round pick.

Given that we;
- just paid big money for a guy who was picked in the second round (Gortat)
-lost a high profile FA who was picked in the 2nd(Ariza)
-brought in another guy picked in the 2nd (Blair)
-and have been speculating about another guy picked in the 2nd (Ilyasova)

i am really not that crazy about selling 2nd round picks.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

tontoz, I agree with you about not selling 2nd round picks

Instead of acquiring both Humphries and Blair, I think the synergy would be better with just one of them plus second round pick Corey Jefferson. Or, keep Blair/Humphries but instead of signing older Gooden to join them and languish on the bench behind them, have a young guy like Jefferson to be their rookie apprentice.

I know the draft precedes free agency. Just saying young guys from round two CAN be a good fit.

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[TGW]

I gave the selling of the second round pick an F only for what it symbolizes. I honestly think we're going to see a pattern develop here in the next few seasons (if EG is retained)...trading first round picks and selling off second rounders are going to be the norm for Ernie.

Why not avoid something that you're terrible at doing? Ernie knows that his weakness is the draft, so avoiding altogether makes perfect sense. It makes him look less bad as a GM, and it saves Turd a couple of bucks. Not only that, they've made it clear that they don't want to deal with developing another project.

I wouldn't at all be surprised to see our first rounder next year combined with Nene's dead corpse for another 30-something vet.

I wonder what the scouting department is going to do with themselves in the coming years...I forsee a lot of NBA 2K in their future.

[FAH1223]

Fleeced in trades the vast majority of times? Can you give a few examples? I would suggest that his trade record is pretty decent--50-50 at worse. For every #5 pick trade for Foye/Miller, there's been a Kwame for Caron type trade.

And this offseason EG has done a damn good job of not overpaying HIS guys, although some here wanted him to overpay Ariza. In fact, EG has gotten 2-3 guys in the past couple of weeks at what looks like bargain prices...with an eye toward having cap room in 2016.

The record speaks for itself.

The 3rd worst record in the NBA since 2003-2004.

[Ruzious]

Fleeced in trades the vast majority of times? Can you give a few examples? I would suggest that his trade record is pretty decent--50-50 at worse. For every #5 pick trade for Foye/Miller, there's been a Kwame for Caron type trade.

And this offseason EG has done a damn good job of not overpaying HIS guys, although some here wanted him to overpay Ariza. In fact, EG has gotten 2-3 guys in the past couple of weeks at what looks like bargain prices...with an eye toward having cap room in 2016.

The record speaks for itself.

The 3rd worst record in the NBA since 2003-2004.

Check mate.

Hopefully things will get tremendously better at some point, but there's no getting around the futility of the last 10 years with Ernie Grunfeld as GM. 3rd worst for a decade (cover your ears) is what it is (uncover). No amount of posts on a message board is going to change that.

[DCZards]

Fleeced in trades the vast majority of times? Can you give a few examples? I would suggest that his trade record is pretty decent--50-50 at worse. For every #5 pick trade for Foye/Miller, there's been a Kwame for Caron type trade.

And this offseason EG has done a damn good job of not overpaying HIS guys, although some here wanted him to overpay Ariza. In fact, EG has gotten 2-3 guys in the past couple of weeks at what looks like bargain prices...with an eye toward having cap room in 2016.

The record speaks for itself.

The 3rd worst record in the NBA since 2003-2004.

Check mate.

Hopefully things will get tremendously better at some point, but there's no getting around the futility of the last 10 years with Ernie Grunfeld as GM. 3rd worst for a decade (cover your ears) is what it is (uncover). No amount of posts on a message board is going to change that.

Yeah, there's no getting around the past. But I refuse to spend my time and energy living in the past or sulking about the past as some here do.

And notice that FAH couldn't/didn't provide any examples of EG getting "fleeced in trades the vast majority of the time"...which, after all, was my question.

[pineappleheadindc]

So what would be required for EG to be viewed as a great GM ? More accurately is probably should be worded a good GM or very good GM.

This should be interesting.

Me personally, I never like the Great GM title. It really wasn't about that. It was more about him being a competent GM or even an above average or good GM who had some luck break his way and that was operating under a poor owner with the wrong time line and mandates.

The argument here was those who said he was an decent GM and deserved a clean shot under Ted vs those that said he sucked and was one of the worst.

Well as more and more information comes in, it becoming more and more clear that Ted/EG is much better then Abe/EG.

Quit blaming a dead guy for a dude's suckiness as a GM. Just quit doing it!

Ernie had a couple decent offseasons WITH Abe alive. 2005 probably being his best one but his first offseason in 2003 had him steal Gilbert from GSW on a pretty good contract.

Last I checked, Leonsis was the majority owner in 2011. Which was a DISASTER.

But for the most part he's had uninspired, lazy, horrible offseasons. He cannot draft, he gets fleeced in trades the vast majority of the time, and he overpays HIS guys with no inch of negotiations.

THIS.

Are we going to blame Abe for the Wizards signing the worst player of all time, Eric Maynor? [That was Wizardry bait.]

[closg00]

Fleeced in trades the vast majority of times? Can you give a few examples? I would suggest that his trade record is pretty decent--50-50 at worse. For every #5 pick trade for Foye/Miller, there's been a Kwame for Caron type trade.

And this offseason EG has done a damn good job of not overpaying HIS guys, although some here wanted him to overpay Ariza. In fact, EG has gotten 2-3 guys in the past couple of weeks at what looks like bargain prices...with an eye toward having cap room in 2016.

The record speaks for itself.

The 3rd worst record in the NBA since 2003-2004.

Check mate.

Hopefully things will get tremendously better at some point, but there's no getting around the futility of the last 10 years with Ernie Grunfeld as GM. 3rd worst for a decade (cover your ears) is what it is (uncover). No amount of posts on a message board is going to change that.

Have you seen the work poster hands** ?