Dr J v.s Kobe

Johnlac1 · Post #21 » by **Johnlac1** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:39 pm

As an old geezer who is also a huge fan of West and Erving, I'd rate Bryant slightly ahead of both of them.

Post #22 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:43 pm

Yeah the tone of the OP is off. Doc summed up my feelings pretty well about a better way of doing the same thing.

I'll admit to not feeling like I have a great handle on Dr J. I will be reading intently when we get deeper into him in the top 100 project to figure out exactly where I feel like he belongs.

I hate Kobe as a fan, but as a guy trying to rank him I view him pretty highly. He's one of those players we seem to spend 80% or more of our time focusing on his negatives and very little time on his positives and I'm not really sure why. As far as non-bigs go for me I currently have it as such:

Mike
Magic
Bird
Oscar
West
Kobe

with a big question mark as to where Doc should come in. I feel certain he's below Bird and almost certain he's below West, and currently I view him below Kobe, but I'll admit to a more limited knowledge of Erving because he's just never been a player who interested me and by the time I was into the NBA he was nearing the end of his run.

Post #23 » by **Timmaytime** » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:52 pm

I only have a post 1980 list (I factored in Dr. J's ABA years too) and I have Kobe at #10 and Erving at #12. It's close, and definitely arguable, but I don't think Dr. J is "clearly better" than Kobe

Also I was unaware that Dr. J was the only perfect player, crazy how he has no flaws!

Pg81 · Post #24 » by **Pg81** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:10 pm

I went with Dr.J. Found his game just more appealing for me personally. Same goes with his on court personality. Ultimately just a biased opinion for what it's worth.
Think overall they are not far apart.

Johnlac1 · Post #25 » by **Johnlac1** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:27 pm

People who downgrade Erving because his stats/scoring suffered when he went to the NBA should realize that the Sixers had more talent than Erving's ABA teams. He sublimated his game for the team. He still averaged close to 27 ppg one season for the Sixers. He could have easily averaged 5+ ppg if the team needed the points.

Colbinii · Post #26 » by **Colbinii** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:33 pm

Johnlac1 wrote:People who downgrade Erving because his stats/scoring suffered when he went to the NBA should realize that the Sixers had more talent than Erving's ABA teams. He sublimated his game for the team. He still averaged close to 27 ppg one season for the Sixers. He could have eaily averaged 5+ ppg if the team needed the points.

How do you account for the major dip in stats during the playoffs in his NBA career?

Johnlac1 · Post #27 » by **Johnlac1** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:50 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Johnlac1 wrote:People who downgrade Erving because his stats/scoring suffered when he went to the NBA should realize that the Sixers had more talent than Erving's ABA teams. He sublimated his game for the team. He still averaged close to 27 ppg one season for the Sixers. He could have eaily averaged 5+ ppg if the team needed the points.

How do you account for the major dip in stats during the playoffs in his NBA career?

He dipped mostly as he aged. He had pretty good playoff stats his first five years. Then he got older and the Sixers picked up Malone who became the no. 1 go to guy for the Sixers. Erving's 40 pts against the Blazers in game 6 of the '77 title series is still one of the greatest single game of a finals performances of all time. Bird's stats dipped too in the playoffs.

Johnlac1 · Post #28 » by **Johnlac1** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:50 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Johnlac1 wrote:People who downgrade Erving because his stats/scoring suffered when he went to the NBA should realize that the Sixers had more talent than Erving's ABA teams. He sublimated his game for the team. He still averaged close to 27 ppg one season for the Sixers. He could have eaily averaged 5+ ppg if the team needed the points.

How do you account for the major dip in stats during the playoffs in his NBA career?

He dipped mostly as he aged. He had pretty good playoff stats his first five years. Then he got older and the Sixers picked up Malone who became the no. 1 go to guy for the Sixers. Erving's 40 pts against the Blazers in game 6 of the '77 title series is still one of the greatest single game of a finals performances of all time. Bird's stats dipped too in the playoffs.

Ballerhogger · Post #29 » by **Ballerhogger** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:08 pm

i gotta figure out why Real Gm hates RealGM. As new member i never seen so much un reasonable hate for one star.

Warspite · Post #30 » by **Warspite** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:11 pm

I like Kobe. His fans are a plague on society that are only eclipsed by Al Qeada.

If you show the resumes w/o the names DrJ had the better career. Who is the better player is all depends on your own subjective value.

SactoKingsFan · Post #31 » by **SactoKingsFan** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:15 pm

Ballerhogger wrote:i gotta figure out why Real Gm hates RealGM. As new member i never seen so much un reasonable hate for one star.

RealGM doesn't hate Kobe. He's winning this poll and will probably get voted in at 12 or 13 in the top 100 project.

ardee · Post #32 » by **ardee** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:53 am

SactoKingsFan wrote:
Ballerhogger wrote:i gotta figure out why Real Gm hates RealGM. As new member i never seen so much un reasonable hate for one star.

RealGM doesn't hate Kobe. He's winning this poll and will probably get voted in at 12 or 13 in the top 100 project.

13 is really a bit of an insult to Kobe.

SactoKingsFan · Post #33 » by **SactoKingsFan** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:37 am

ardee wrote:
SactoKingsFan wrote:
Ballerhogger wrote:i gotta figure out why Real Gm hates RealGM. As new member i never seen so much un reasonable hate for one star.

RealGM doesn't hate Kobe. He's winning this poll and will probably get voted in at 12 or 13 in the top 100 project.

13 is really a bit of an insult to Kobe.

Cases can be made for Oscar, KG and Dr. J, but I doubt all three will get voted in before Kobe.

Kobe could go at 11 which will be wide open. Don't think there's much of a difference between 11-13.

Baller2014 · Post #34 » by **Baller2014** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:36 am

13 is anything but an insult to Kobe, a guy who was never once the best player in the league, and who had a boatload of negatives which his supporters seem to ignore when they are brought up.

CountTheirRings · Post #35 » by **CountTheirRings** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:50 am

"Kobe was never the best player in the league in any year" :nonono:

Blasphemous.

On note of the comparison:

Rings: Kobe (5) vs. Dr. J (1)
MVPs: Kobe (1) vs. Dr. J (1)
Finals MVP: Kobe (2) vs. Dr. J (0)
All-Defensive First Team: Kobe (9) vs. Dr. J (0)
Scoring Leader: Kobe (2) vs. Dr. J (0)

And yes, I am aware that Dr. J only played for 11 years. Still doesn't account for the huge discrepancy. And don't reduce this side-by-side to a superficial analysis, because it's really enough substance from which to make a definitive call. By the way, Kobe's shot, footwork, court vision, competitive edge, ball-handling are all more developed and preferential to Dr. J's. And if you have some sort of dunking fetish, Kobe used to get UP.

Baller2014 · Post #36 » by **Baller2014** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:52 am

Aside from everything else in your post that is wrong, Dr J has 3 rings, 2 of which he won as the man (so on that score he's even with Kobe). He won both those rings with less help too. Not that we should be "counting rings" to work out how good someone is. Dr J played for 16 years btw, not 11.

Post #37 » by **Moonbeam** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:08 am

I give a very slight edge to Dr. J. It's a tough comparison given that many of his best years were spent in the ABA. The ABA was closing the gap on the NBA when the merger happened, though, and Erving's best ABA seasons came right before the merger, so I think it's fair to say that he was one of the top 5 (maybe top 3) best basketball players in the mid 70s. His addition to the 76ers immediately made them contenders, and they more or less stayed that way until Erving had passed his prime.

Kobe has greater longevity, but I'd venture to say that Dr. J had an edge in peak. I tend to favor peak over longevity, so Dr. I gets a slight nod from me.

BmanInBigD · Post #38 » by **BmanInBigD** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:37 pm

It's funny (not really funny, actually kinda ridiculous) how Kobe defenders like to cite all these numbers, no matter how nebulous or irrelevant, but if you even MENTION advanced stats when discussing him, they're dismissed as out of context or they don't jibe with their "eye test".

Nobody underrates Kobe because they "hate" him. More likely, they hate the fact that you can't have an honest, objective debate about him. It's almost like how everyone on the left wants to say that you're a racist if you don't like everything Obama does.

Post #39 » by **Quotatious** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:53 pm

CountTheirRings wrote:And yes, I am aware that Dr. J only played for 11 years.

Why do you disregard his ABA career, when he actually peaked?

Not like I have a problem with anyone taking Kobe (I also give Bryant an edge, even if just marginal), but I don't think anyone here would really see NBA only Doc as comparable to Kobe.

Post #40 » by **penbeast0** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:21 pm

ardee wrote:
SactoKingsFan wrote:
Ballerhogger wrote:i gotta figure out why Real Gm hates RealGM. As new member i never seen so much un reasonable hate for one star.

RealGM doesn't hate Kobe. He's winning this poll and will probably get voted in at 12 or 13 in the top 100 project.

13 is really a bit of an insult to Kobe.

26 might be an insult to Kobe, he's reasonable comparable to about 20 all-time greats depending on how you feel about the influence of great big men, longevity, personality/intangibles, winning bias, the value of raw scoring, advanced stats, and a few other factors. 13 is a pretty reasonable place for him and I could easily see ranking him lower without any kind of a slight involved.

Kobe does tend to be polarizing, both pro and con.

Dr J or Kobe?