Knicks open to trading Shump, JR, Larkin per ESPN

[moocow007]

Name a team that would want to give JR 25 minutes a game...maybe Philly because they need players, beyond that...

Right off the top?

Wizards
Blazers
Pistons
Nets

And of course Knicks

Washingon has Beal, Glen Rice Jr, Webster, Porter and Pierce, I think they're content.

Webster (their 6th man) just had surgery and will be out for some time (minimum 3-5 months and could miss at least the first part of the season). Pierce will be the staring SF, replacing Trevor Ariza, so that really doesn't impede bench scoring (Smiths role). Yes, Glen Rice Jr had a great SL but that doesn't mean that they'll be comfortable using him to replace Webster very key role off the bench...the Wizards are trying to win right now...not rebuild. JR Smith would project to be Webster's replacement. Webster averaged 27.7 mpg last season. With Pierce unlikely to be able to play the same number of minutes Ariza gave them 35.4mpg last season, Pierce averaged only 28 mpg and even then looked spent as the season went along. JR Smith would get more than 25 minutes a game if he were on the Wizards.

Blazers maybe, they have Matthews who will get most of the minutes but CJ McCollum looks like their next starting SG. Barton is emerging too.

Again, if the Blazers were rebuilding then sure. But they are also trying to win right now so the likelihood of them relying on McCollum and Barton to be their bench offense. Wes Matthews was their starting SG last season and would be their starting SG this season so he doesn't impact JR Smith, who would come off the bench for them as a 6th man one bit.

Pistons just signed Meeks and they're optimistic about Caldwell-Pope.

Meeks right now would be their starting SG (they lost Rodney Stuckey). It would not be too hard to argue that JR Smith is a better player than Meeks and would start if he were on the Pistons. But even if he didn't replace Meeks the Pistons bench scoring was awful last season. Which is why there's talk about the Pistons as a possible destination for Smith.

Brooklyn has Joe Johnson and Jarrett Jack...and I doubt we do business with Brooklyn.

? The Nets lost (will lose) Pierce, Livingston AND Blatche. Joe Johnson was a starter and will remain a starter. Pierce was their starting SF. As of right now, barring a signing their replacement for Pierce is Alan Anderson. JR Smith at his doped up worst is better than Alan Anderson. With Lionel Hollins there, adding JR Smith would make a lot of sense considering Hollins biggest and best skill is connecting with talented bad egg types and getting them to buy into the program, play hard and excel. Holins is basically Mike Woodson on steroids. If Woodson can milk a 6MOY season out of Smith, Hollins should be able to do 2 seasons (which is the length of Smiths contract).

So...on every one of these teams JR Smith would realistically be able to get 25 mpg.

Heck...here's another one. Houston Rockets. The Rockets not only lost offense by swapping starting SF Chandler Parsons with now starting SF Trevor Ariza, they also lost their 6th man, Jeremy Lin. As of right now they have no 6th man at all (unless you believe incoming rookie Nick Johnson, former 2nd round pick Isaiah Canaan or journeyman Alonzo Gee would be realistic 6th man options for a team that is trying to win a title not rebuild). So there's another team that JR Smith would be able to get 25mpg with (Lin averaged 28.9mpg last season).

In fact, if you want to move Smith, these would be 6 teams that I'd be on the phone with to see if there's a fit.

I don't see why any of these teams would want the JR headache over what they have.

Of course you don't cause you don't like him. You hate him so much you want the worst to happen and everything to be terrible to justify your hate for the guy. But you need to actually look a little closer with each team (see what I did) instead of just throwing some cursory comments and names out there.

And before anyone starts calling me a JR Smith fan, I would trade him in a second if I felt I could get good value for him. And I would prefer in an ideal world that he not be on this team. But good value doesn't mean any old piece of crap. And we aren't working in an ideal world meaning they actually still could use the good things that Smith does (and there is good with the bad) that they would be hard pressed to replace.

[moocow007]

I'd still do JR for Perk...mainly for #1 and #3

Random thought...if Perkins is the C version of Ray Felton, J McGee would have to be the C version of JR.

No...that title belongs to Nick Young. But then again, you guys would probably swap Smith for Young cause Young is just "a young guy that's been misguided while JR Smith is the Anti-Christ".

I wouldn't want him either.

But I am not so sure Nick Young can out dummy JR. It would at least be a close battle.

No it really wouldn't.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsnfLVjR79s[/youtube]

[MaseInYourFace]

I'm trying to figure out exactly how Smith is a "headache"?

Because he untied a couple of guys shoes?

Because he was the first NBA player ever to be suspended for an elbow or flagrant foul?

Contrary to apparent common wisdom he is not a chucker. Hardaway Jr. smokes him in that category. He's not a defensive liability. His assists and rebounds are well within acceptable range for a SG. And despite his bad first 2 months, at the end of the year, his shooting percentages while career worst were not awful.

He was a VERY good player for the final 2 months.

So what's the "headache" ... specifically?

So Mr. Stepback fadewaway is not a chucker?

[suicidedeuce]

I'm trying to figure out exactly how Smith is a "headache"?

Because he untied a couple of guys shoes?

Because he was the first NBA player ever to be suspended for an elbow or flagrant foul?

Contrary to apparent common wisdom he is not a chucker. Hardaway Jr. smokes him in that category. He's not a defensive liability. His assists and rebounds are well within acceptable range for a SG. And despite his bad first 2 months, at the end of the year, his shooting percentages while career worst were not awful.

He was a VERY good player for the final 2 months.

So what's the "headache" ... specifically?

So Mr. Stepback fadewaway is not a chucker?

https://twitter.com/HerringWSJ/status/4 ... 6271853568

[MaseInYourFace]

I'm trying to figure out exactly how Smith is a "headache"?

Because he untied a couple of guys shoes?

Because he was the first NBA player ever to be suspended for an elbow or flagrant foul?

Contrary to apparent common wisdom he is not a chucker. Hardaway Jr. smokes him in that category. He's not a defensive liability. His assists and rebounds are well within acceptable range for a SG. And despite his bad first 2 months, at the end of the year, his shooting percentages while career worst were not awful.

He was a VERY good player for the final 2 months.

So what's the "headache" ... specifically?

So Mr. Stepback fadewaway is not a chucker?

https://twitter.com/HerringWSJ/status/4 ... 6271853568

That's only for last season though.

JR is what he is. He's a good bench scoring option. Yes he is a chucker but there is nothing wrong with that depending on how your team is set up.

[RaZzMaTaZz]

Just FYI, Phil Jackson is going on a vacation according to his twitter. I think we wont see any potential JR or Shump deals any time soon until just before the start of training camp.

[Meat]

Just FYI, Phil Jackson is going on a vacation according to his twitter. I think we wont see any potential JR or Shump deals any time soon until just before the start of training camp.

ima guess he has a cell phone

[NYKinMIA]

Just FYI, Phil Jackson is going on a vacation according to his twitter. I think we wont see any potential JR or Shump deals any time soon until just before the start of training camp.

ima guess he has a cell phone

[Deeeez Knicks]

Now we even have stats to tell us which players are chuckers?

Just watch some games and its pretty obvious

[K_ick_God]

I'm trying to figure out exactly how Smith is a "headache"?

Because he untied a couple of guys shoes?

Because he was the first NBA player ever to be suspended for an elbow or flagrant foul?

Contrary to apparent common wisdom he is not a chucker. Hardaway Jr. smokes him in that category. He's not a defensive liability. His assists and rebounds are well within acceptable range for a SG. And despite his bad first 2 months, at the end of the year, his shooting percentages while career worst were not awful.

He was a VERY good player for the final 2 months.

So what's the "headache" ... specifically?

So Mr. Stepback fadewaway is not a chucker?

https://twitter.com/HerringWSJ/status/4 ... 6271853568

A chucker is someone who doesn't know when to shoot and when not to shoot. % of touches ending in shots doesn't tell the complete story.

JR has a bad basketball IQ, he's crazy and he's not a winner. Actually he's a quitter. Did you watch the 2013 playoffs?

You can pound the numbers all you want but almost every GM would tell you that JR is not getting much out of his talent. And he never will. He's a lost cause my friend.

[siar617]

5 Potential Trade Packages and Landing Spots for Knicks Guard J.R. Smith

http://www.chatsports.com/new-york-knic ... 1-10115373

several good options there

portland, Mini and Dallas especially

All those trades suck.

[god shammgod]

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2014/7/21/5921931/j-r-smith-iman-shumpert-and-the-knicks-non-existent-guard-problem

kinda true. the problem is not really too many 2s, it's no proper 4. you're always gonna go small at times in today's nba. you're pretty likely to play 3 guards together regularly.

[ag3]

Why the **** would the Knicks do JR Smith for Jason Terry???
Wow at some of these reporters.

[suicidedeuce]

A chucker is someone who doesn't know when to shoot and when not to shoot. % of touches ending in shots doesn't tell the complete story.

Okay, what does?

You can pound the numbers all you want but almost every GM would tell you that JR is not getting much out of his talent.

And you've just helped demonstrate exactly what goes on with JR Smith. For his critics, it's a matter of how good he is vs how good he's 'should' be.

Remove the latter part and he's a perfectly above average NBA shooting guard.

[K_ick_God]

A chucker is someone who doesn't know when to shoot and when not to shoot. % of touches ending in shots doesn't tell the complete story.

Okay, what does?

Knowing when to shoot and when not to shoot. See above.

You can pound the numbers all you want but almost every GM would tell you that JR is not getting much out of his talent.

And you've just helped demonstrate exactly what goes on with JR Smith. For his critics, it's a matter of how good he is vs how good he's 'should' be.

Remove the latter part and he's a perfectly above average NBA shooting guard.

I didn't say he isn't very good compared to his talent. I said he doesn't get much out of his talent. Whatever he does do -- including those wonderful numbers you're focusing on -- is a product of his talent. But that ain't much. It's empty calories. Intelligence, a drive to win, making smart plays that don't get picked up by the box score ... they matter and can't be quantified easily with numbers.

Again, there are players with about the same numbers who are much better players because they fit a role. He has no idea how to play a role. He also shot under 40% for much of the season and was a big reason that the Knicks a) went into the toilet in the playoffs in 2013 and b) started off so terribly that their whole season went into the toilet in the 2013-14 season.

6MOY Award aside, which means little to nothing, he is not helpful to any team looking to go far. He's a waste of talent. That doesn't mean what you're left with is above average. It just means that he gets by on his talent.

A lot of his numbers are a waste. He pours it on in blowouts, gets points in meaningless situations, and fades away into oblivion when it matters. He makes terrible turnovers, is completely and unreliably streaky, and has huge defensive lapses that kill the team in big moments.

You're being duped lol. The guy royally sucks.

[Capn'O]

Why the **** would the Knicks do JR Smith for Jason Terry???
Wow at some of these reporters.

Shorter contract (for Terry) = more $$$ next offseason

[Bklyn&company]

You only trade JR if you have a second scoring option... Which at the present time we do not have(thjr summer league dont count). With THJ, Shump and JR you dont have a log jam... When there are available minutes at the 3/sf behind Melo.

We should be looking to move or let go Ellington and decide if TA Greek and Tyler make a roster spot or not. Phil said "more balanced" this was before the Jason Smith signing... And believe he meant more so the front court because he kept saying Stats and Bargs played better at center.
I believe nothing is going to happen until training camp and Jackson will have everyone battle it out, especially the bigs.

Melo Shump Early
Stat Smith
Dale Aldrich Barg
JR THJ
Caldron Larkin Prig

Maybe Tyler and TA Greek or even Cam Moore if hes at camp, make the team... But where is the log jam everyone is talking about?

Bspn, dont know chit!

Sent from my SPH-D710BST using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Capn'O]

I'm trying to figure out exactly how Smith is a "headache"?

....

He was a VERY good player for the final 2 months.

So what's the "headache" ... specifically?

How about the first 4 months? His play through February + drama surrounding him and his brother were BIG parts of why the Knicks were in that hole to begin with.


You always have to wonder where JR's head is. When he's in good physical condition and focused on the game, he's good value for his contract. He is not always in good physical condition and focused on the game. I'll let your logic circuitry extrapolate conclusions from here.

Presumably, PMFJ knows what JR is up to this offseason and will act accordingly.

[Red Vines]

Should've realized if people aren't off the JR bandwagon yet, they probably never will be. If you can't see how unprofessional and unreliable he still is after ten years in the league...

[K_ick_God]

You only trade JR if you have a second scoring option...

You dump JR so you don't rely on him as a second scoring option.

We tried that in the 2013 playoffs and it ended in utter disaster, as we had to watch this clown play some of the most pathetic basketball I've ever seen played. He was playing okay, then elbowed someone for no reason, the Celtics came back, then he came back, and he had disappeared completely.

Then we stayed with it and tried it again in the 2013-14 season, and he started off so poorly that the team sunk out of serious playoff contention and an entire season was lost. JR's response to this disaster was to untie shoelaces.