The One And Only Offseason Thread 4

[bwgood77]

The odds on my general board post keep changing....interesting to read the opinions and watch the poll fluctuate

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1337468&p=40782254#p40782254

[DirtyDez]

I'd rather hold out for Wiggins if I were the Wolves... or Bledsoe.

I would too but Minnesota is probably screwed no matter what. They're a poorly run team and Wiggins will probably be depressed like every other player the Wolves have ever had. I think he has tons of talent but won't reach his potential unless he's in a great situation like like he is now (or in PHX )

[Revived]

The T-Wolves are so stupid. I can't believe they couldn't find a better GM than Flip freakin Saunders.

Wiggins, Bennett, 1st rd pick PLUS willing to take on the bad contracts of Barea and K-Mart is the best offer the T-Wolves were gonna get and they just basically passed on it.

[Kerrsed]

The T-Wolves are so stupid. I can't believe they couldn't find a better GM than Flip freakin Saunders.

Wiggins, Bennett, 1st rd pick PLUS willing to take on the bad contracts of Barea and K-Mart is the best offer the T-Wolves were gonna get and they just basically passed on it.

But the thing is that no one knows if Cleveland actually offered that deal. Its the rumor, but it could be the Wolves putting that out there to get GS to up their offer and visa versa.

Cleveland has said they didnt offer up Wiggins, and now that he is signed and cant be traded for at least 30 days, it gives them even more credibility.

2 things need to happen. One, the Wolves need to go after a player that fits with their culture. I though Love was that guy, and he was, but they didnt know how to put a good team around him. Same mistake they made with Garnett, but he showed a little more loyalty to them, but that was in a different era of basketball (culture wise). Minnesota sucks. Their team is horrible. The weather sucks. Im sure the nightlife sucks compared to other cities with franchises. You get a young stud star player like Wiggins and he will end up leaving them first chance he can.

Its an unfortunate thing, but this is a different culture of basketball. Back in the day players were just happy to make the league. They were happy being a starter and getting paid good. Now they have too much control and can pretty much dictate where they want to go, and smaller market teams in cities that are perceived to be sh*tty with sh*tty weather and a sh*tty night life lose every time. Even if a team in one of these cities drafts a super-stud-star player, history shows they always end up leaving. When's the last time a team like the Wolves or the Bucks have had a major FA signing? Whens the last time they have had a star player that they drafted actually stay the course? It just doesnt happen anymore, and thats why things need to change in the next CBA. The league needs to help protect these teams from losing their star talent. They are already at a disadvantage location wise. When LaVine is ready for his next contract what do you think his move will be? Do you think Favors would want to re-sign to stay in Mormon Utah?

Thats why as of now these teams need to look at the players they are trading for and make sure they can fit in. Otherwise they will just end up losing them and be stuck holding the bag. Wiggins doesnt want to play with the Wolves, and in 4 years (or sooner) they will find themselves in the same situation that they are currently in with Love.

Back to what i was originally saying. I dont think Cleveland offered Wiggins just like i dont think GS offered Thompson. The Wolves are desperate at this point and are "leaking" out these "rumors" hoping one of them blinks and really offers them up one of these two players, but GS/CLE are smart and arnt falling for it. Its put them at a standstill, so now im thinking that they also "leaked" out the Chicago rumor, hoping one of the first two teams budges.

All these rumors you hear are coming from the Wolves. The other teams involve dont benefit one bit by this info being put out there, just the Wolves do.

/End of rant with an outstanding point!

[BurningHeart]

Honestly, I can see the logic behind the "one step back, two steps forward" thing. Tanking, rebuilding, whatever the hell you want to call it...it's a good fantasy to have, and we all want to dream of that superduperstar we drafted leading this city to its first championship.

But as I've gotten a bit older(mid-20s, mind you) and busier, with less time to really stress out about the NBA the way I did during the SSOL years, my priority as a fan has shifted from "THIS TEAM MUST WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP OR ELSE!" to "when I come home from work at the end of the day, I just want to watch an entertaining and competitive team."

Philadelphia and Orlando may be closer to a championship than we are, because maybe they've drafted the next big thing. But you know what? I....kind of don't really care about the title or bust stuff anymore. I know that sounds blasphemous, and 17 year old me would not believe I'm saying it, but as long as the team is fun and filled with guys I can root for, I'll take it. Maybe we never win a title because we're never bad enough to land "THE GUY", and yeah, that's frustrating, but if I have a chance at watching a good team play fun basketball most nights of the year, I'm more than satisfied at this point.

Carry on.

It's not blasphemous at all. (skip to third paragraph if not planning on reading whole post) I've thought about posting the same thing the last couple of hours. I'm happy being the 4th winningest franchise of all time. Of course I'd like a championship and would love a superstar but those are not easy to come by. We almost got one with Kareem but lost the coin flip and then ended up with the 2nd pick after David Robinson. You could tank for years and never get the pick right. It's been said before, that if OKC would have gotten the #1 pick the year they took Durant they would have taken Oden, and if they got the #2 pick the year they took Westbrook they would have drafted Beasley. How would that have worked out for them?

I wouldn't trade those KJ or Nash years for anything. I'd take a team that is ALWAYS competitive as long as they are not past their prime fighting for the 8th seed (then I would rebuild, and hopefully fast...this past season was kind of a miracle). I admit, for a while I was kind of hoping we would be bad to get one of those top guys, especially the way our team played the year before this past one and the projection of our team for this past year being abysmal anyway. Despite their being a handful of people who expected us to be pretty good (I remember Big Foot for sure was the one who believed in the team the most), no one knew how good Bledsoe, Green or Plumlee could be.

I kind of hate the championship or bust mentality these days. I'd easily rather have a team over a 10 year period that

1)barely missed the playoffs a couple of years, got knocked out in the first round a couple of years, got knocked out in the second round a couple of years, got knocked out in the WCF a couple of years, and lost in the NBA finals a couple of years...

than

2)a team that was terrible for 7 years, suddenly made it to the 2nd round one year, than to WCF one year, then won an NBA championship

#1 It would be fun yet heartbreaking but also in a way it's special because you go through it all with the players and fans

#2 would be nice to see it built and get there, but it would be pretty frustrating and probably hard to watch a lot of the time. More importantly, if this route was taken, trying to get a few top picks and hoping they lead you to a championship, doesn't guarantee anything, and for most teams, they end up in the lottery for years, only to finally reach the playoffs for one or two years and then realize they are at their peak and they have to start over.

Bad teams typically have guys wanting out, nobody wanting to go play for them, etc.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Philly over the years. It will be a long process and I think it is more likely a disaster than a success, but either way it will be interesting to see. They are probably at best, about 4 years away from being at least 500.

I would *easily* take ten straight years borderline contending with an exciting team with at least a chance each year even if we got zero championships out of it than one guaranteed championship and ten years of cellar-dwelling.

Easily. Especially in basketball. The NBA is completely and utterly worthless when your team is trash.

[aIvin adams]

I would *easily* take ten straight years borderline contending with an exciting team with at least a chance each year even if we got zero championships out of it than one guaranteed championship and ten years of cellar-dwelling.

Easily. Especially in basketball. The NBA is completely and utterly worthless when your team is trash.

that year that the Dragon emerged from its cavern and contributed to the Spurs sweep?



beautiful

[letsgosuns]

I would rather have the championship personally. I look at the Arizona Diamondbacks situation. The team won the World Series in 2001, competed in 2002 (unfortunately Luis Gonzalez was injured and missed the playoffs), and has had only two playoff appearances since then in 2007 and 2011. If you include this current 2014 MLB season, and I am assuming the Diamondbacks will miss the playoffs this year, then that is a total of two playoff appearances in 12 years. Pretty horrible. But you know what, I will take it. Why? Because I can look back on the 2001 season and say my team was the best. We were the champions. We were the best team in the league. I would never trade that feeling and trophy just to say my team was decent for ten years. No way. I will take being a champion every day of the week instead of saying my team is pretty good but never good enough. Every time I turn on a Diamondbacks telecast and see Brenly's World Series ring I get excited. I think about where I was the moment the Diamondbacks won. To this day that is probably the most exciting sports moment in Arizona history.

By the way, just to be clear, I am in no way happy the Diamondbacks suck right now though haha.

[aIvin adams]

I would rather have the championship personally. I look at the Arizona Diamondbacks situation. The team won the World Series in 2001, competed in 2002 (unfortunately Luis Gonzalez was injured and missed the playoffs), and has had only two playoff appearances since then in 2007 and 2011. If you include this current 2014 MLB season, and I am assuming the Diamondbacks will miss the playoffs this year, then that is a total of two playoff appearances in 12 years. Pretty horrible. But you know what, I will take it. Why? Because I can look back on the 2001 season and say my team was the best. We were the champions. We were the best team in the league. I would never trade that feeling and trophy just to say my team was decent for ten years. No way. I will take being a champion every day of the week instead of saying my team is pretty good but never good enough. Every time I turn on a Diamondbacks telecast and see Brenly's World Series ring I get excited. I think about where I was the moment the Diamondbacks won. To this day that is probably the most exciting sports moment in Arizona history.

By the way, just to be clear, I am in no way happy the Diamondbacks suck right now haha.

i was excited when the dbacks won, but i grew up a Dodger fan.

so i just have no idea what it would be like if the Suns won a chip. if it happens in my lifetime, then i expect i will be running through the streets clad only in the joyful tears streaming down my drunk naked body.

i'll be on the sex offender list for life, but a fan's gotta do what a fan's gotta do.

[letsgosuns]

I would rather have the championship personally. I look at the Arizona Diamondbacks situation. The team won the World Series in 2001, competed in 2002 (unfortunately Luis Gonzalez was injured and missed the playoffs), and has had only two playoff appearances since then in 2007 and 2011. If you include this current 2014 MLB season, and I am assuming the Diamondbacks will miss the playoffs this year, then that is a total of two playoff appearances in 12 years. Pretty horrible. But you know what, I will take it. Why? Because I can look back on the 2001 season and say my team was the best. We were the champions. We were the best team in the league. I would never trade that feeling and trophy just to say my team was decent for ten years. No way. I will take being a champion every day of the week instead of saying my team is pretty good but never good enough. Every time I turn on a Diamondbacks telecast and see Brenly's World Series ring I get excited. I think about where I was the moment the Diamondbacks won. To this day that is probably the most exciting sports moment in Arizona history.

By the way, just to be clear, I am in no way happy the Diamondbacks suck right now haha.

i was excited when the dbacks won, but i grew up a Dodger fan.

so i just have no idea what it would be like if the Suns won a chip. if it happens in my lifetime, then i expect i will be running through the streets clad only in the joyful tears streaming down my drunk naked body.

i'll be on the sex offender list for life, but a fan's gotta do what a fan's gotta do.

Hahahahah yeah.

[BurningHeart]

Part of the reason you feel that way was the actual 2001 World Series, I'm sure. What it meant in the wake of 9/11, the games themselves, the finish.

I'm a Braves fan. I'd rather be a Braves fan than a Marlins fan. The Marlins have more World Series wins in the last 25 years than the Braves do, but the Marlins have been the worst-run franchise in sports outside of their World Series wins 1997 and 2003.

But again, in basketball it's even more different. I'd take what the Suns have had in recent times, in the mix year in year out playing exciting basketball with the chance to come through on a title than years of the Sacramento Kings (who would have and should have won the title in 2002 so I'm going to use them as my example for this since cellar-dwellers never win titles in the NBA), let's say.

It's all about entertainment. Yes, the goal is to win a championship and I can't imagine how great it would feel if the Suns win a championship but in the end, I'll take multiple years of exciting basketball with the chance to contend sometimes than one guaranteed title and garbage the rest of the time. I feel very strongly that the Suns would have been champions in 2007 anyway if Tim Donaghy never existed.

[Moochthemonkey]

Whens the last time they have had a star player that they drafted actually stay the course? It just doesnt happen anymore, and thats why things need to change in the next CBA. The league needs to help protect these teams from losing their star talent.

Such as...? 1st round draft picks already are indebted to 5 years (if you count the Q/O) of service to the team that selects them, potentially longer deals if they are restricted. I don't see what more can be done contractually. A player shouldn't be forced by the league to stay with a team for an extended period of time if he doesn't appreciate his time there. Like you astutely pointed out, it's a culture problem, and new rules are not going to change that..

[sunskerr]

I dunno what I'd do when the Suns finally win one. There would surely be copious amounts of alcohol involved though. I really hope it happens under McDonough too - he's been brilliant so far and I envision this guy having the staying power of RC Buford or Kupchak. That might be unfair to expect of him after one year but the moves he (McDonough) has made have been of the quality of those other guys.

[bigfoot]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/EricPincus/status/492450704523812864[/tweet]
I keep loving how McD is a genius.

A nice job by McD. I like it for another reason. It makes the players think about their financial situation a bit more. The money is not always gonna flow in and if it decreases they should be more likely to save some. I sure would like rookie scale contracts to be decreasing as well. Might help some of those younger kids who think they will be in the NBA forever.

[batsmasher]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/EricPincus/status/492450704523812864[/tweet]
I keep loving how McD is a genius.

A nice job by McD. I like it for another reason. It makes the players think about their financial situation a bit more. The money is not always gonna flow in and if it decreases they should be more likely to save some. I sure would like rookie scale contracts to be decreasing as well. Might help some of those younger kids who think they will be in the NBA forever.

The funny thing is, this is all probably Babby's work, but heck, why not give McD the credit.

[bigfoot]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/EricPincus/status/492450704523812864[/tweet]
I keep loving how McD is a genius.

A nice job by McD. I like it for another reason. It makes the players think about their financial situation a bit more. The money is not always gonna flow in and if it decreases they should be more likely to save some. I sure would like rookie scale contracts to be decreasing as well. Might help some of those younger kids who think they will be in the NBA forever.

The funny thing is, this is all probably Babby's work, but heck, why not give McD the credit.

So true ... nice job this summer by McB.

[RunDogGun]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/EricPincus/status/492450704523812864[/tweet]
I keep loving how McD is a genius.

A nice job by McD. I like it for another reason. It makes the players think about their financial situation a bit more. The money is not always gonna flow in and if it decreases they should be more likely to save some. I sure would like rookie scale contracts to be decreasing as well. Might help some of those younger kids who think they will be in the NBA forever.

The funny thing is, this is all probably Babby's work, but heck, why not give McD the credit.

But doesn't that mean he also gets credit for Chilldress's contract as well? I think what happened under Bab/Blank is significantly different than what has been going on now. Since one constant is the same, and only one variable changed, I think it's safe to give credit to McD.

[bwgood77]

Thats why as of now these teams need to look at the players they are trading for and make sure they can fit in. Otherwise they will just end up losing them and be stuck holding the bag. Wiggins doesnt want to play with the Wolves, and in 4 years (or sooner) they will find themselves in the same situation that they are currently in with Love.

They actually hold a player's rights for 8 years unless they take the QO (or stupidly give a guy like Love a player option after 3 years of 2nd contract). 9 years if they make them the designated player. OKC will have Westbrook and Durant each 9 years even if they leave when they are free agents.

I generally agree that they should do more to help small markets but they've done quite a bit. NY and LA are having trouble attracting guys too right now. I'm not sure Cleveland is a better place to live than Minnesota except for maybe the weather.

[bwgood77]

I would rather have the championship personally. I look at the Arizona Diamondbacks situation. The team won the World Series in 2001, competed in 2002 (unfortunately Luis Gonzalez was injured and missed the playoffs), and has had only two playoff appearances since then in 2007 and 2011. If you include this current 2014 MLB season, and I am assuming the Diamondbacks will miss the playoffs this year, then that is a total of two playoff appearances in 12 years. Pretty horrible. But you know what, I will take it. Why? Because I can look back on the 2001 season and say my team was the best. We were the champions. We were the best team in the league. I would never trade that feeling and trophy just to say my team was decent for ten years. No way. I will take being a champion every day of the week instead of saying my team is pretty good but never good enough. Every time I turn on a Diamondbacks telecast and see Brenly's World Series ring I get excited. I think about where I was the moment the Diamondbacks won. To this day that is probably the most exciting sports moment in Arizona history.

By the way, just to be clear, I am in no way happy the Diamondbacks suck right now though haha.

Yeah, not me. I don't live in Phx any more but I have zero interest in the DBacks (but I've never been too much of a baseball fan). That year was awesome but having a team that sucks it can be tough to remain interested and takes a lot of enjoyment out of your life if you are a big sports fan. Football might be the only one I might take the championship because it's pretty fun to be a fan most of the time anyway, and most of the time more than half the league have a good shot of making the playoffs and anyone can make a run in the playoffs.

[Suns Court 23]

The Kyrie 90 for 5 deal has to drop that down a full letter. They get a B from me and back to an A if they trade their draft scraps for Kevin Love.

I understand Kyrie isn't good enough to warrant that deal but he is still only like 21 or 22 and he is averaging about 21 and 6.

Yeah, I'm very glad we got a guy who gives the same production for 4 years, 27 million.

Exactly

[JDLAW]

Thats why as of now these teams need to look at the players they are trading for and make sure they can fit in. Otherwise they will just end up losing them and be stuck holding the bag. Wiggins doesnt want to play with the Wolves, and in 4 years (or sooner) they will find themselves in the same situation that they are currently in with Love.

They actually hold a player's rights for 8 years unless they take the QO (or stupidly give a guy like Love a player option after 3 years of 2nd contract). 9 years if they make them the designated player. OKC will have Westbrook and Durant each 9 years even if they leave when they are free agents.

I generally agree that they should do more to help small markets but they've done quite a bit. NY and LA are having trouble attracting guys too right now. I'm not sure Cleveland is a better place to live than Minnesota except for maybe the weather.

You make a good point about control but it is not so absolute as this. Players do not have to take 5 years or even 4 on their second contract.