Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[2015nbachamps]

This guy gets me, even if Win doesn't.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/davidhaugh/status/492489171009671170[/tweet]

this is what ive been saying...no way they woo this guy for that long and then trade him so quickly...Morey would do that. this org has been more than fair to all of its players along the way...character/perceived character) has been a big deal for this front office and ownership group. that included their own character...they think highly of themselves and are very professional as well as all about the human spirit.

Do you guys know who the Berto Center is named after? Its named after JR's long time assistant/secretary...she died of cancer about 20 years ago...he named the darn building after his assistant. The man is as loyal as they come. trading away Mirotic or gasol outside of being asked for a trade is considered a jerk move.

the only (key) guys that this org could find a way to trade and not look too bad are Taj, Jimmy, and Noah...maybe Kirk (even though he just resigned). All of them would be "tough" trades...but its like what Pat Riley once told Tim Hardaway...we danced as long as we could have together and we just cant make it to the big dance. A Noah trade would have to bring back a huge star like a Kevin Love and I dont know how the org could pass on they if thats what Minny wanted in return to trump the cleveland deal...in fact that is still our best trade to make...Noah for Love. filler where necessary...each team send off an asset as needed to send Kmart elsewhere...the bulls just dont need him if on offense we are replacing Noah and Boozer/Taj...with Gasol and Love with taj and Mirotic backing them up.

[Kaled]

So, could someone give me an update on the Love-to-Clev-while-we-land-Waiters situation?

You are asking for an update on something that is not real. There has never been any legitimate talk about Waiters being in this deal unless you are talking about a deal where Wiggins is staying in Cleveland.

Cleveland's offer is the best right now and that has Wiggins, Bennett and possibly a 1st round pick going to Minnesota. Cleveland is NOT going to give up both Waiters and Wiggins. If Minnesota wants Taj as well, they can trade for him on their own. Cleveland is NOT going to bid against themselves by trading their own assets to get Minnesota Taj Gibson.

Oh hai DowJones, you're here now? Lurking the Minny board wasn't enough?

[Concept Coop]

Except MINN "only wants to deal with CHI" is a fantasy created by the mind of overzealous bulls fans.

It was one example of Minny having leverage; independent of my being a Bulls fan. Replace CHI with whomever has the assets and is within 20mil of Love's ideal landing spot.

MINN can either have wiggins or let Love go for nothing.

That's not accurate. The only way they lose Love for nothing is if Love is willing to walk away from 20mil+ and his new team can absorb his salary outright. Assuming he's not, or the potential team doesn't, teams will need to play ball. That's leverage.

We're still talking about the "lose 20 million thing". Love is 25 years old, it's preposterous to think that whatever max contract he signs is his last max contract.

That sure explains why so many players walk away from it...

[jc23]

He's going to Cleveland, SAS is never wrong.

sas saw lebron going back to miami, it wasnt until others started to break the story that his view changed.

But i would put my money on Love to cle, its the safest bet.

Im hearing cle will get love and keep wiggins today. No way in hell do i help facilitate this just to get a caliber of player like Kevin Martin.

Man i would be so Mad if lebron gets his cake and gets to eat it too.

[johnnyvann840]

He's going to Cleveland, SAS is never wrong.

He was wrong all year about Melo being "gone from NY".. He was sure, positive he was leaving.

[jc23]

People don't like Martin. Well, let's turn to tearing down Waiters for a few pages.

Taj for Waiters and Dieng works too, salary wise.

Waiters can create his own shot, and would be dynamite on our second team, along with Hinrich, Mc3, Mirotic and Dieng.

He's a head case, but seems like a prime candidate for the Thibs/Noah/Rose/Butler/MDJ maturity school.

So how about Taj for Waiters, Dieng and a Cavs 1st?

I like Martin, but not enough to put the nail in our coffin by helping the cavs get Love. Do not like waiters.

[NecessaryEvil]

He's going to Cleveland, SAS is never wrong.

He was wrong all year about Melo being "gone from NY".. He was sure, positive he was leaving.

Not true at all. He said NY or Miami.

[panthermark]

This looks plenty deep to me:

Rose/Kirk/Brooks
Martin/Butler/Kirk
Butler/McDermott

You listed five guys there for three spots plus Aaron Brooks. I don't consider that to be that deep. Especially if the alternative is and all you have to do for that is swap Mirotic to backup PF, Thompson to third string PF.

Rose/Kirk/Brooks
Martin/Snell/Waiters
Butler/McDermott

That is useless depth. So, you are going to pay Waiters +$4M to be your 3rd string SG? You have talent in Brooks...but he will never ever see the floor. How many minutes will McD get this year? You can make Waiters the 6th man but you are still only looking at 20 minutes a game (if that)...and that also means Snell never leaves the bench. Plus, you have to make a call on Butler at the end of the year. He is your best wing defender, but if you keep him, you limit the minutes for McD throughout his contact. Similar situation with Thompson and Mirotic.

[MrFortune3]

I wouldn't say Minnesota has no leverage and that Kevin Love has it all.
There are only a few teams with the assets that Minny will require to deal him.
Cleveland is desperate to appease James and ensure he doesn't leave again. This gives Minny all the leverage they need.
The only place they can get a potential superstar is through dealing with Cleveland.

Me personally, I would have hung up the phone as soon as they uttered An, wouldn't even let them get to the drew part of his name.
You will end up sacrificing far too much to get Love, however I can understand the temptation of having Love, Irving and James on the team as your core moving forward.

Cleveland isn't trading Wiggins+Waiters+Thompson+Bennett+Future #1 picks for Love. Waiters and Thompson have just been casually tossed in by Minnesota fans. The best Minnesota will get from Cleveland is an offer that involves Wiggins/Bennett/#1. Maybe Cleveland tries to get JJ Barrea for non-guaranteed contracts but that is it.

2 #1 overall picks and a future #1 is a damn good package to begin with. Honestly too much for a player who is known to be leaving his current franchise if they don't deal him.
They have to including either Waiters or Thompson simply to make the salaries work even if they bring in a 3rd team. One of them has to go, that is assuming Minnesota is steadfast on dumping Martin.
If not then, all they need is to deal Wiggins, Bennett and Haywood for the salaries to match up.

If Cleveland would walk away and tell them to keep Love(which is what they should do) then Minnesota loses all leverage. They can't get what they want from GS, Chicago is the only other viable option at present but even that is tenuous.

Cleveland by extension of attempting to please James is giving Minnesota the leverage to bend them over in a trade.

[Concept Coop]

No, the Wolves are seeing what they can get from Cleveland to then trade and get for themselves. If the Bulls back out of this deal, Love still goes to Cleveland. The Bulls and Cleveland aspect are basically two separate deals that just gets done as one as to not violate the CBA.

The Wolves want Taj, don't want Waiters, and want to get rid of Kevin Martin. The Cavs want the Wolves to be happy, and can't offer them this on their own.

That's why we're in the deal--we'll be compensated for helping it get done, if we end up doing so.

You listed five guys there for three spots plus Aaron Brooks.

5+1 = 6; two guys per spot. That's all roster limits allow.

Rose/Kirk/Brooks
Martin/Snell/Waiters
Butler/McDermott

It's worth swapping Taj for Thompson in return for a 3rd string SG?!

What "extra money"? Waiters has two more years before he needs a deal and Thompson one. How is Thompson so much a downgrade from Taj yet at the same time going to be an expensive piece to resign? Those two statements work against each other.

Martin+Waiters+Thompson make more than Taj+Dunlevy.

If the Bulls signed Mirotic and Gasol and want to hold onto Gibson, the FO should be fired immediately.

That's some serious hyperbole.

[bad knees]

So, could someone give me an update on the Love-to-Clev-while-we-land-Waiters situation?

You are asking for an update on something that is not real. There has never been any legitimate talk about Waiters being in this deal unless you are talking about a deal where Wiggins is staying in Cleveland.

Cleveland's offer is the best right now and that has Wiggins, Bennett and possibly a 1st round pick going to Minnesota. Cleveland is NOT going to give up both Waiters and Wiggins. If Minnesota wants Taj as well, they can trade for him on their own. Cleveland is NOT going to bid against themselves by trading their own assets to get Minnesota Taj Gibson.

Wiggins, Bennett and a pick is not going to get it done. Flip does not want a total rebuild. He and his owner want to win now.

[Concept Coop]

2 #1 overall picks and a future #1 is a damn good package to begin with. Honestly too much for a player who is known to be leaving his current franchise if they don't deal him.

I think Wiggins alone is enough, so I agree with you there. But Bennet isn't valued as a "former #1 overall pick" any more than Greg Oden is.

[Proven_Winner]

He's going to Cleveland, SAS is never wrong.

sas saw lebron going back to miami, it wasnt until others started to break the story that his view changed.

But i would put my money on Love to cle, its the safest bet.

Im hearing cle will get love and keep wiggins today. No way in hell do i help facilitate this just to get a caliber of player like Kevin Martin.

Man i would be so Mad if lebron gets his cake and gets to eat it too.

SAS has been nothing, but wrong even on the Melo side of things. He said he and Lebron were playing in Miami or LA, but now Melo is locked into his contract which has a no trade clause. SAS hasn't been really hitting homeruns this offseason.

[Concept Coop]

That is useless depth. So, you are going to pay Waiters +$4M to be your 3rd string SG? You have talent in Brooks...but he will never ever see the floor. How many minutes will McD get this year? You can make Waiters the 6th man but you are still only looking at 20 minutes a game (if that)...and that also means Snell never leaves the bench. Plus, you have to make a call on Butler at the end of the year. He is your best wing defender, but if you keep him, you limit the minutes for McD throughout his contact. Similar situation with Thompson and Mirotic.

I agree with you, but didn't not type what you quoted.

[Proven_Winner]

He's going to Cleveland, SAS is never wrong.

He was wrong all year about Melo being "gone from NY".. He was sure, positive he was leaving.

Not true at all. He said NY or Miami.

beginning of the year SAS said Melo was gone. Then he said they were grouping up in Miami so technically he was wrong 2x.

[johnnyvann840]

I just realized there is a "Kevin Martin Sucks" website for every team he's ever played on. Now that's something you don't see often for a "20 PPG guy with great efficiency" . Why is that? I understand though. It's mind boggling how anyone would want a player like him on their team. Kevin Martin has never been a contributing part of anything good in basketball. Just underacheiving teams over and over and over. and he's a weak pussy.

[AkronsFinest91]

So, could someone give me an update on the Love-to-Clev-while-we-land-Waiters situation?

Never happening

Cleveland is not trading both Wiggins and Waiters which would then create a big hole at SG. Let alone to Chicago and help the Bulls with their scoring needs. Cleveland is very high on him.


Sam Amico (NBA columnist for FOXSports.com and FOXSportsOhio.com) recently did a chat on the prospect of a Love trade.


Comment From Cliff
What are the Cavs view on Dion right now? Do they think they can convince him to be a 6th man, do they think they can start him, or will they just trade him?


Sam Amico:
They absolutely love him and feel he can be their Dwyane Wade. Or Wade-like anyway. He is the starting shooting guard. Wiggins will have to beat him out.

[MrFortune3]

That sure explains why so many players walk away from it...

It depends on the player's issue with the team. Howard is really the only guy to walk away from it outside of the big 3 in Miami.
The new CBA is designed to stop players from changing teams so often.
They could walk away from the money but rarely do since they only see the guaranteed money on the table even when they will likely opt out in 3 years anyway.

2 #1 overall picks and a future #1 is a damn good package to begin with. Honestly too much for a player who is known to be leaving his current franchise if they don't deal him.

I think Wiggins alone is enough, so I agree with you there. But Bennet isn't valued as a "former #1 overall pick" any more than Greg Oden is.

I am not saying Bennett is a beast or anything. But it is damn near unheard of to see two former #1 picks dealt away for another player.
Now, Bennett should never have gone #1 but that is beside the point.

[singal3]

:lol:

I just realized there is a "Kevin Martin Sucks" website for every team he's ever played on. Now that's something you don't see often for a "20 PPG guy with great efficiency" . Why is that? I understand though. It's mind boggling how anyone would want a player like him on their team. Kevin Martin has never been a contributing part of anything good in basketball. Just underacheiving teams over and over and over. and he's a weak pussy.

The Kevin Martin love reminds me of the Boozer love when he was in Utah.

Additionally, the Dion Waiters fan club is developing from the last seen remnants of the OJ Mayo fan club.

[panthermark]

That is useless depth. So, you are going to pay Waiters +$4M to be your 3rd string SG? You have talent in Brooks...but he will never ever see the floor. How many minutes will McD get this year? You can make Waiters the 6th man but you are still only looking at 20 minutes a game (if that)...and that also means Snell never leaves the bench. Plus, you have to make a call on Butler at the end of the year. He is your best wing defender, but if you keep him, you limit the minutes for McD throughout his contact. Similar situation with Thompson and Mirotic.

I agree with you, but didn't not type what you quoted.

Yeah, I know... I quoted them backwards...my bad.