Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[Proven_Winner]

Whilst i think you're being overly harsh and think he would certainly have a role here and would help us, i do agree to an extent.

His 19 PPG and efficiency numbers are as hollow as they come. However, that doesn't mean he couldn't be a decent 13-15 PPG scorer/shooter for us off the bench.

I'd happily add Martin to this team, just not for Gibson.

Taj is worth so much more on the market and clearly impacts a game in more ways.

This is the part people don't understand. Taj is a really good player even at his age that everyone always wants to bring up.

This is the part Gar/Pax apparently don't understand since they've brought in an all-star PF this offseason, another highly touted PF, and are now inquiring about yet another PF.

The thing is they know just like we do Taj is not just limited to PF and we don't really know if Love has been the target or if it's someone else. I just think the FO would be crazy to think we could Love without giving up McD and Nikola 2 guys that they worked so hard to get.

[singal3]

@EyeOnBasketball: Report: Knicks offered Amar'e, Shumpert, Hardaway Jr. for Kevin Love

cbsprt.co/Uz8HSP

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bas ... t-for-love

The Knicks recently attempted to make a trade for Minnesota Timberwolves star Kevin Love, offering forward Amar'e Stoudemire and his enormous expiring contract, second-year guard Tim Hardaway, Jr. and swingman Iman Shumpert, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.

Quoted from the same article:

That's actually not that bad of a package. A huge expiring contract to allow Minnesota to dump Kevin Martin and/or J.J. Barea in a deal, two great young prospect players in THJ and Shump.

Seriously, where do they find these clowns. Is it that easy to get a job as a sports writer?

[MrFortune3]

I just have one question. How fast did the Wolves hang up on the Knicks? Or did they laugh so hard they forgot to hang up the phone?
I am just looking at the offer after posting the gif and I still cannot believe it.
It never hurts to ask or make an offer but my God, that's just insulting.

[kingkirk]

I'm okay with not doing the trade, but I don't think people realize how disgustingly good a lineup of LeBron, Love, and Irving will be. That is a juggernaut we're gonna have to go through. Can we do it? Possibly. But it's going to be an all-out war, and we need some things to break in our favor (Rose being in MVP form, health, rapid development from Dougie, Snell, and Mirotic).

Make no mistake about it.

In comparison to when Miami was born, this is nothing for me.

Love & Irving have had their injury concerns. Irving has missed more games through his first 3 seasons in the league than D Wade has over the same time. Love has missed big time as well. Then, you also have Varejao who routinely gets hurt.

The Bulls have question marks on their players and injury history, but the Cavs do now as well.

They really have limited depth. Miler, Jones & Allen are all approaching a mid life crisis, and all play the same position/role on the team.

Lebron isn't getting any younger, either. He will be 30 during the season. If Wiggins is gone, who would have been a luxury for Lebron as he could have taken the best wing defender whilst Lebron coasted, that's suddenly not an option now.

Lebron's defense has never been more critical. For as much **** as Chris Bosh cops, he is 10x the defender that Love will ever be.

Kyrie and Love also remain unproven in the playoffs. If both are relegated to catch and shoot types playing next to Lebron, they can be slowed.

We're not talking about the 2012 or 2013 Heat here, who had the depth and system to hurt you on top of what Lebron was doing.

Cleveland will be good, possibly the best in the East, but i think Miami was certainly a more complete team.

If the Cavs trade away most of their future assets whilst essentially tying themselves up to 3 max contracts long term, this is good for us.

[Shill]

Quoted from the same article:

That's actually not that bad of a package. A huge expiring contract to allow Minnesota to dump Kevin Martin and/or J.J. Barea in a deal, two great young prospect players in THJ and Shump.

Seriously, where do they find these clowns. Is it that easy to get a job as a sports writer?

Then he also said it wasn't a bad package IF they had draft picks to send. They don't. Then he proceeded to laugh at the Knicks for trading away all their picks.

[Jordan45822]

http://m.wsj.com/articles/source-knicks ... %20herring

WSJ (actual source) on the Knicks/Love story

[Polynice4Pippen]

This is the part people don't understand. Taj is a really good player even at his age that everyone always wants to bring up.

This is the part Gar/Pax apparently don't understand since they've brought in an all-star PF this offseason, another highly touted PF, and are now inquiring about yet another PF.

The thing is they know just like we do Taj is not just limited to PF and we don't really know if Love has been the target or if it's someone else. I just think the FO would be crazy to think we could Love without giving up McD and Nikola 2 guys that they worked so hard to get.

I'm a fan of Taj. But it's hard for me to believe the front office is as sold on Taj as many around here claim when they continue to pursue and bring in one PF after another. Certainly they aren't sold on Taj as a starter.

[kingkirk]

Could you please expand on this? Exactly what type of value do you think he could bring us back? How come we have never heard of a trade proposal for Taj Gibson? He's a good basketball player and a great back-up but we can win without Taj, I'm sure.

Which part?

Martin vs Taj the players? Gibson is much more a two way player than Kevin Martin is. Taj isn't Blake Griffin offensively, but he is good for 12 a game with more minutes whilst providing his elite defense.

Kevin Martin gets numbers, but he is a weak 3rd option. He is a shooter off the bench, just like OKC were using him.

As to market value, both are on similar deals. One guy is being packaged as a salary dump in the Love talks, the other is wanted by the same team dumping Martin.

[AKfanatic]

Whilst i think you're being overly harsh and think he would certainly have a role here and would help us, i do agree to an extent.

His 19 PPG and efficiency numbers are as hollow as they come. However, that doesn't mean he couldn't be a decent 13-15 PPG scorer/shooter for us off the bench.

I'd happily add Martin to this team, just not for Gibson.

Taj is worth so much more on the market and clearly impacts a game in more ways.

This is the part people don't understand. Taj is a really good player even at his age that everyone always wants to bring up.

This is the part Gar/Pax apparently don't understand since they've brought in an all-star PF this offseason, another highly touted PF, and are now inquiring about yet another PF.

They brought in a Euro they've had the rights to for awhile, drafted him probably envisioning an eventual combo with taj, also drafted before Taj improved offensively. They brought in a vet that plays both C and PF. I don't think either of those moves say "we don't think Taj is very good". Funny how much fans downplay the same guy they worried about getting on a defensive team and taking the Bulls into the lux. tax, a guy that had a legitimate case for sixth man of the year. Taj is very talented and seems to play well in big games, that's something that can't be overstated enough. He plays with a chip on his shoulder and an aggression in big games that I wish all our players played with. I'm all for trading him for some real value, Kevin Martin isn't it. Kevin Martin and pieces? Then it could get interesting.

[Proven_Winner]

This is the part Gar/Pax apparently don't understand since they've brought in an all-star PF this offseason, another highly touted PF, and are now inquiring about yet another PF.

The thing is they know just like we do Taj is not just limited to PF and we don't really know if Love has been the target or if it's someone else. I just think the FO would be crazy to think we could Love without giving up McD and Nikola 2 guys that they worked so hard to get.

I'm a fan of Taj. But it's hard for me to believe the front office is as sold on Taj as many around here claim when they continue to pursue and bring in one PF after another. Certainly they aren't sold on Taj as a starter.

Yet they paid him handsomely and have told him not to pay attention to trade talks. They also brought him in on the Melo pitch and have said how much they value chemistry and Taj has been here for about 5 years. They don't have to think he's a starter, but they've shown signs that they clearly value him.

[Shill]

I'm okay with not doing the trade, but I don't think people realize how disgustingly good a lineup of LeBron, Love, and Irving will be. That is a juggernaut we're gonna have to go through. Can we do it? Possibly. But it's going to be an all-out war, and we need some things to break in our favor (Rose being in MVP form, health, rapid development from Dougie, Snell, and Mirotic).

Make no mistake about it.

In comparison to when Miami was born, this is nothing for me.

Love & Irving have had their injury concerns. Irving has missed more games through his first 3 seasons in the league than D Wade has over the same time. Love has missed big time as well. Then, you also have Varejao who routinely gets hurt.

The Bulls have question marks on their players and injury history, but the Cavs do now as well.

They really have limited depth. Miler, Jones & Allen are all approaching a mid life crisis, and all play the same position/role on the team.

Lebron isn't getting any younger, either. He will be 30 during the season. If Wiggins is gone, who would have been a luxury for Lebron as he could have taken the best wing defender whilst Lebron coasted, that's suddenly not an option now.

Lebron's defense has never been more critical. For as much **** as Chris Bosh cops, he is 10x the defender that Love will ever be.

Kyrie and Love also remain unproven in the playoffs. If both are relegated to catch and shoot types playing next to Lebron, they can be slowed.

We're not talking about the 2012 or 2013 Heat here, who had the depth and system to hurt you on top of what Lebron was doing.

Cleveland will be good, possibly the best in the East, but i think Miami was certainly a more complete team.

If the Cavs trade away most of their future assets whilst essentially tying themselves up to 3 max contracts long term, this is good for us.

I think both teams' injury history cancels itself out.

Dave Blatt is supposed to be an offensive genius, so I don't expect Love and Irving to stand in the corner and be spot-up shooters. Blatt's an unknown, so we'll see, but his reputation is sterling.

They're going to be VERY tough to slow down offensively. Our advantage comes on the interior. Varejao isn't an intimidating rim protector. Our bigs are gonna have to bring it.

We need MVP Rose compromising their defense every chance he gets.

[Polynice4Pippen]

This is the part people don't understand. Taj is a really good player even at his age that everyone always wants to bring up.

This is the part Gar/Pax apparently don't understand since they've brought in an all-star PF this offseason, another highly touted PF, and are now inquiring about yet another PF.

They brought in a Euro they've had the rights to for awhile, drafted him probably envisioning an eventual combo with taj, also drafted before Taj improved offensively. They brought in a vet that plays both C and PF. I don't think either of those moves say "we don't think Taj is very good". Funny how much fans downplay the same guy they worried about getting on a defensive team and taking the Bulls into the lux. tax, a guy that had a legitimate case for sixth man of the year. Taj is very talented and seems to play well in big games, that's something that can't be overstated enough. He plays with a chip on his shoulder and an aggression in big games that I wish all our players played with. I'm all for trading him for some real value, Kevin Martin isn't it. Kevin Martin and pieces? Then it could get interesting.

I'll give you the Mirotic signing, although he was perfect trade bait if they felt they were set at PF. The Gasol signing makes it pretty clear Gar/Pax don't believe Taj is a starter. I mean it's not like Portland or the Clippers would've gone after starting PF's. You have Taj, you have Mirotic, but you still go after Pau? And now you have all 3 of those guys but you're still going after Love? Very odd.

[Polynice4Pippen]

The thing is they know just like we do Taj is not just limited to PF and we don't really know if Love has been the target or if it's someone else. I just think the FO would be crazy to think we could Love without giving up McD and Nikola 2 guys that they worked so hard to get.

I'm a fan of Taj. But it's hard for me to believe the front office is as sold on Taj as many around here claim when they continue to pursue and bring in one PF after another. Certainly they aren't sold on Taj as a starter.

Yet they paid him handsomely and have told him not to pay attention to trade talks. They also brought him in on the Melo pitch and have said how much they value chemistry and Taj has been here for about 5 years. They don't have to think he's a starter, but they've shown signs that they clearly value him.

They value him as an asset, a key player. But they obviously don't feel that they're set for the next 5 years at starting PF.

[Rerisen]

Varejao isn't an intimidating rim protector. Our bigs are gonna have to bring it.

This was said about Miami's interior too, and when we played them in the playoffs, our bigs didn't do jack all except Game 1.

How much of defense is effort? 50%? More? I don't know the exact number, but I know whatever it is, it is a higher % than the % of offense that can improve just with effort. And teams in the playoffs that are supposed to be thin on defense seem to manage to step up better on that end than teams weak on offense. See even last year's Bulls vs Wizards series. They played as good as D as us, despite we were many ranks better.

The Bulls can't step up on D further though, we already play it at 100% every game, because that is what Thibs obsesses over.

[kingkirk]

They value him as an asset, a key player. But they obviously don't feel that they're set for the next 5 years at starting PF.

Whilst all that may true, Gibson is being linked to names such as Love, a player better than him. They may be prepared to move him, so long as it makes sense.

Martin is not a better player than Taj so i doubt that would ever happen.

[NecessaryEvil]

This is the part Gar/Pax apparently don't understand since they've brought in an all-star PF this offseason, another highly touted PF, and are now inquiring about yet another PF.

They brought in a Euro they've had the rights to for awhile, drafted him probably envisioning an eventual combo with taj, also drafted before Taj improved offensively. They brought in a vet that plays both C and PF. I don't think either of those moves say "we don't think Taj is very good". Funny how much fans downplay the same guy they worried about getting on a defensive team and taking the Bulls into the lux. tax, a guy that had a legitimate case for sixth man of the year. Taj is very talented and seems to play well in big games, that's something that can't be overstated enough. He plays with a chip on his shoulder and an aggression in big games that I wish all our players played with. I'm all for trading him for some real value, Kevin Martin isn't it. Kevin Martin and pieces? Then it could get interesting.

I'll give you the Mirotic signing, although he was perfect trade bait if they felt they were set at PF. The Gasol signing makes it pretty clear Gar/Pax don't believe Taj is a starter. I mean it's not like Portland or the Clippers would've gone after starting PF's. You have Taj, you have Mirotic, but you still go after Pau? And now you have all 3 of those guys but you're still going after Love? Very odd.

Taj Gibson is the odd man out. The reason Bairstow gets a 3-year deal. Ralph also talked about Butler & Gibson being involved in trade talks all summer.

They are going to develop Mirotic this season. The quicker the better for the sake of D-Rose. I don't see him (Gibson) making it past next offseason.

[dumbell78]

:lol:

I just realized there is a "Kevin Martin Sucks" website for every team he's ever played on. Now that's something you don't see often for a "20 PPG guy with great efficiency" . Why is that? I understand though. It's mind boggling how anyone would want a player like him on their team. Kevin Martin has never been a contributing part of anything good in basketball. Just underacheiving teams over and over and over. and he's a weak pussy.

Whilst i think you're being overly harsh and think he would certainly have a role here and would help us, i do agree to an extent.

His 19 PPG and efficiency numbers are as hollow as they come. However, that doesn't mean he couldn't be a decent 13-15 PPG scorer/shooter for us off the bench.

I'd happily add Martin to this team, just not for Gibson.

Taj is worth so much more on the market and clearly impacts a game in more ways.

Boom that is the key word right there! He will put up numbers and be efficient in the process but its of no impact. We have seen that throughout his career, he doesn't tip the scale as dramatically as one thinks. His stint in OKC should be a clue to all of us, he had no impact whatsoever. He is a spot up shooter that gets cheap fouls to stuff his numbers. He's not a play maker, cant play defense, and injury prone.

Look I get that the SG spot is slim pickings right now but why are we "settling" for this guy in losing Taj. I dont like it, even in the whole TT, Waiters scenario. I think we can do better. I would rather gamble and overpay on a young guy like Burks, than get these three guys and most probably lose two of them to FA in a years time. Then we're left with what? One overpaid player that doesnt have the impact that Taj does on this team. I dont like these options at all, sorry.

Taj is 29 but not a beat down 29, and locked in @ 8 mil for the next 3 years. Jordan friggin Hill just got 9 mil! Tristan will cost more that that in FA. Waiters is a big headcase, and Kevin 'no impact" Martin will cost you over 7 mil when he's 34 in 2016/2017.

[Shill]

Varejao isn't an intimidating rim protector. Our bigs are gonna have to bring it.

This was said about Miami's interior too, and when we played them in the playoffs, our bigs didn't do jack all except Game 1.

How much of defense is effort? 50%? More? I don't know the exact number, but I know whatever it is, it is a higher % than the % of offense that can improve just with effort. And teams in the playoffs that are supposed to be thin on defense seem to manage to step up better on that end than teams weak on offense. See even last year's Bulls vs Wizards series. They played as good as D as us, despite we were many ranks better.

The Bulls can't step up on D further though, we already play it at 100% every game.

We have better bigs now. Plus Cleveland's back line is weaker than Miami's. If Rose is in MVP form, they're going to have to wall him off, which opens things up for shooters.

We wouldn't be the favorites against Cleveland, but I can see how we could potentially win the series.

[Rerisen]

Bulls have devalued Taj by signing a guy in front of him and behind him. Teams we are dealing with are going to know we want to unload him for perimeter balance and try to stiff us.

[Stratmaster]

Yeah, I've been pointing this out. But it isn't just being a nice guy. If they had to promise him that to get him here, and if they go back on it, no player would ever be able to trust the Bulls organization's word on anything.

Well we shouldn't have given such a promise then. He was on the outs with Real Madrid anyway.

Nor one to Gasol about starting either.

Geez, tying Thibs hands here.

Well then we shouldn't have drafted him. He said from day one he only wanted to play for the Bulls.