Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[Rerisen]

So you must not trust McDermott either then right? So the Bulls best plan is to get Martin AND Thompson for Gibson so that the Bulls have protection for both Mirotic and McDermott.

McDermott is from the USA, has played against NBA players and is more ready for the NBA game than Mirotic is.

I would expect more from McDermott than Mirotic initially, so your comparison makes little sense.

Fran says Euro-league is 2nd best in the world.

[kingkirk]

I assume if he gave an assurance he would not Boozer it, regardless of Rose. Or they could get that question answered first.

I am going to need that extension from Love now if we're dealing our future 3 & 4 and natural fits to Rose away for him, but that's just me and my risk averse ways.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Then Gar/Pax really dun messed up.

Why? I am not saying he is going to be a dud forever, just that it will take him time to adjust to the American way of life and the NBA game.

There is nothing wrong with that assertion.

Why would it take a European professional, an MVP over there years to adjust to being a back up behind two all-stars? This isn't some raw 2nd rounder here. Let's take the training wheels off. Taj Gibson did the exact same role as a rookie and even stepped in and started, all as a late 1st rounder.

[dumbell78]

I get your point. But you have to be able to project as well. Again, we didn't wait to see if Horace could handle starting PF before shipping Oakley off. We just projected and had trusted our scouting. Why can't we do the same for Mirotic, especially as just a back up?

Because Horace actually played for a year and we could see what we had, I honestly have no idea with Nikola. Guy could be Ryan Anderson or could be out of the league in 2 years. I need to see him play in the league first. I would trade Taj+ parts right now if the 2 guard was a legit 2nd option, but Kmart isnt even that right now. Seems like a move of desperation.

Gar/Pax clearly have an idea though. Otherwise you ship him off for one of those top 10 picks or don't give him almost $20 million.

GarPax love his potential and wanted him to be brought in with Taj as a safe guard that can play both PF and C. Maybe give Nikola 12-15 min a game a la Asik when he was a rookie. 20 mil is crazy money for that I agree but they were put in a unique spot after striking out on Melo. They needed to bring in talent and get this team any potential help it could. If Melo was here in a S&T, Gasol for the MLE, Nikola is still in Spain right now. This has become a real tricky plan B.

[DanTown8587]

So you must not trust McDermott either then right? So the Bulls best plan is to get Martin AND Thompson for Gibson so that the Bulls have protection for both Mirotic and McDermott.

McDermott is from the USA, has played against NBA players and is more ready for the NBA game than Mirotic is.

I would expect more from McDermott than Mirotic initially, so your comparison makes little sense.

It makes sense because you're saying "Mirotic can't be trusted because he's not played in the NBA" and that's true of any player who is a rookie, you're just saying "well college > euroleague" when I think that's incredibly questionable.

[Rerisen]

One of my concerns about Nikola. People were mad when I made the Mirza comparison, but what about Rudy Fernandez. Was he not the best player in Europe at one time in his youth? Then he came over here, flopped, then went back, and still was ahead of Mirotic as an option on Real Madrid!

People said, oh their coach runs the offense through the guards. Still seems like Mirotic should have gotten bigger priority if he is as ready as some are expecting.

[ChiBulls09]

And they might be available later on as well, no?

Not Martin, he's going to be gone in the Love deal if we don't get in on it.

We don't know what is around the corner. 12 months ago, did we know we would be so close to Anthony? Players in the Love/Martin sweepstakes?

We knew we would have tons of flexibility and assets, but we still failed to fix the problem.

If we wait... this isn't just going to be like finding the next Nate or Augustin. Finding a legit SG that can score high volume, efficinecy, and/or get his own shot somewhat, those guys don't come in the garbage bin.

More likely we'll be trying to cram Aaron Brooks into the lineup with Rose if we wait and don't find anybody by the time the season starts.

Because its just hard to look at the league and see these great fit SGs that are out there. Guys like Afflalo and Lance weren't even sure things and they are like top 5-7 SG in the whole league.

What do you feel about the TT/Martin/Waiters deal? I'm on the fence.

I'd pull the trigger. According to the stats, TT is nearly or on Taj's caliber. Taj = TT. We gain Martin and Waiters also. Martin is a legit 2, seasoned player, and be penciled in as the starting 2 right away. Waiters is... Intriguing. More of a project IMO, but can be a spark plug player. I don't think Thibs trusts him enough to play, but he let 5'9 Nate play and he excelled. I don't know if we'd have enough minutes for him in the wing with Butler, McDermott, Hinrich, and Snell (if he's kept & MDJ gone). If we don't want him, I think it's highly possible we could work out a trade for team with extra 1sts and then use that for a backup PG or something.

[kingkirk]

Fran says Euro-league is 2nd best in the world.

Fran is only looking at it from a basketball perspective.

We need to think about all the relationship and personal based issues that will be part of Mirotic's assimilation as well.

The guy can't even speak the language fluently and will be moving his young family over to a foreign land. You have all these cultural issues as well as the fact that the NBA game is very different, as is the speed, style and rule interpretations.

That's big, whether you're making 6m or 60k.

I know if i was moving overseas for work, there would be an adjustment period that potentially could affect performance. This is all i am trying to point out with Nikola.

I think he will be a player, a 17 & 8 guy when he is playing near prime levels, but i think we're getting in over our heads if we think we will be ready to go from the get go.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Because Horace actually played for a year and we could see what we had, I honestly have no idea with Nikola. Guy could be Ryan Anderson or could be out of the league in 2 years. I need to see him play in the league first. I would trade Taj+ parts right now if the 2 guard was a legit 2nd option, but Kmart isnt even that right now. Seems like a move of desperation.

Gar/Pax clearly have an idea though. Otherwise you ship him off for one of those top 10 picks or don't give him almost $20 million.

GarPax love his potential and wanted him to be brought in with Taj as a safe guard that can play both PF and C. Maybe give Nikola 12-15 min a game a la Asik when he was a rookie. 20 mil is crazy money for that I agree but they were put in a unique spot after striking out on Melo. They needed to bring in talent and get this team any potential help it could. If Melo was here in a S&T, Gasol for the MLE, Nikola is still in Spain right now. This has become a real tricky plan B.

That would be fine. But I have no worry about Mirotic playing 20 minutes a night behind Pau and Joakim with those 2 getting the 4th quarter and crunch time minutes.

[johnnyvann840]

Pro career

Basketball League Belgium Champion: (2005–06)
3x Spanish Supercup Champion: (2006, 2007, 2008)
2x Spanish ACB League Champion: (2007–08, 2009–10)
2x Euroleague Final Four Participation: (2006–07, 2007–08)
Spanish King's Cup Champion: (2008–09)

Individual

ACB Rising Star Award: (2007–08)
Spanish King's Cup MVP: (2008–09
Spanish ACB League MVP of the Week Award:
2009–10 ACB season: Week 6 MVP
2010–11 ACB season: Week 3 MVP
2011–12 ACB season: Week 20 MVP
All-ACB Team: (2012)

Looks very much like Niko.. except Mirza Teletovic put up big numbers in Europe and was 27 when he came over. I think he is going to be really good this year. It took him a couple of years to get up to NBA speed

[ChiBulls09]

I wouldn't mind Gorgui Dieng either. 6'11 and 238. In his rookie year, he put up 5 & 5 in 13-14 mins. Double his mins, he's averaging a double x2 per game.

[kingkirk]

Why would it take a European professional, an MVP over there years to adjust to being a back up behind two all-stars? This isn't some raw 2nd rounder here. Let's take the training wheels off. Taj Gibson did the exact same role as a rookie and even stepped in and started, all as a late 1st rounder.

I never said it would take years. It may only take one season, but if this season is all about championships and 'going for it', Mirotic taking one season to assimilate, which is very plausible, may hurt us if we deal Gibson now and could expose us up front, which is meant to be a strength for us as we stand right now.

You're not factoring in the personal issues he will need to go through, not to mention adjusting to the NBA game.

Comparing him to Gibson is meaningless.

[dumbell78]

Slightly OT but relates to Taj and Tristan Thompson. Anybody have that article that was posted on the GB about big men and how they are ranked on the defensive side of the ball? No surprise Noah and Taj were the best tandem in the NBA but they had a bit on Tristan Thompson as well. He was ranked as one of the worst defenders in the league. Really interested in reading it since I just skimmed through it last time.

If anyone has the link please post it!

[kingkirk]

It makes sense because you're saying "Mirotic can't be trusted because he's not played in the NBA" and that's true of any player who is a rookie, you're just saying "well college > euroleague" when I think that's incredibly questionable.

Players are not robots. Their is interpersonal issues that Nikola is going to have to manage that McDermott clearly won't need to.

It's shortsighted to omit every other aspect of life that Nikola is going to need to adjust to as he moves into the States that your typical collegiate athlete already familiar with a game he has been groomed to play in already.

It's not comparable.

[ChiBulls09]

Slightly OT but relates to Taj and Tristan Thompson. Anybody have that article that was posted on the GB about big men and how they are ranked on the defensive side of the ball? No surprise Noah and Taj were the best tandem in the NBA but they had a bit on Tristan Thompson as well. He was ranked as one of the worst defenders in the league. Really interested in reading it since I just skimmed through it last time.

If anyone has the link please post it!

Under Thibs tho, I think TT has the tools to be a decent defender.

[johnnyvann840]

Slightly OT but relates to Taj and Tristan Thompson. Anybody have that article that was posted on the GB about big men and how they are ranked on the defensive side of the ball? No surprise Noah and Taj were the best tandem in the NBA but they had a bit on Tristan Thompson as well. He was ranked as one of the worst defenders in the league. Really interested in reading it since I just skimmed through it last time.

If anyone has the link please post it!

But, but ,but his offensive stats are almost as good as Taj's, so he'll be fine as a replacement. And we're getting Kevin Martin too! yayyyyyy! Oh, Happy Day!

I want to puke.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Why would it take a European professional, an MVP over there years to adjust to being a back up behind two all-stars? This isn't some raw 2nd rounder here. Let's take the training wheels off. Taj Gibson did the exact same role as a rookie and even stepped in and started, all as a late 1st rounder.

I never said it would take years. It may only take one season, but if this season is all about championships and 'going for it', Mirotic taking one season to assimilate, which is very plausible, may hurt us if we deal Gibson now and could expose us up front, which is meant to be a strength for us as we stand right now.

You're not factoring in the personal issues he will need to go through, not to mention adjusting to the NBA game.

Comparing him to Gibson is meaningless.

You're doing a ton of assuming here. There's just as good a chance Mirotic steps right in like a Plumlee or Steven Adams. Also, as is we're going to be exposed at SG anyway. May as well try and shore that up and roll with your top European prospect being good enough to be a back up.

[johnnyvann840]

Why would it take a European professional, an MVP over there years to adjust to being a back up behind two all-stars? This isn't some raw 2nd rounder here. Let's take the training wheels off. Taj Gibson did the exact same role as a rookie and even stepped in and started, all as a late 1st rounder.

I never said it would take years. It may only take one season, but if this season is all about championships and 'going for it', Mirotic taking one season to assimilate, which is very plausible, may hurt us if we deal Gibson now and could expose us up front, which is meant to be a strength for us as we stand right now.

You're not factoring in the personal issues he will need to go through, not to mention adjusting to the NBA game.

Comparing him to Gibson is meaningless.

You're doing a ton of assuming here. There's just as good a chance Mirotic steps right in like a Plumlee or Steven Adams. Also, as is we're going to be exposed at SG anyway. May as well try and shore that up and roll with your top European prospect being good enough to be a back up.

This is kind of funny .. The circles we are going in.

We can say the same thing about McDermott now that people are saying about Niko.. Cause I have no problem with him starting at the 3. We can roll like that. I think he is already a better player than Kevin Martin.. RIGHT NOW. certainly good enough to back up MDJ and Jimmy for 20 MPG .. so why trade a big for a wing?

[panthermark]

Rumor Press @NBARumorPress · 11h
Chicago wants Love, but they wouldn't mind getting a starting wing either. That's where Martin and a potential 3 team deal comes into play.

Rumor Press @NBARumorPress · 11h
Minnesota asked about McDermott, but they're less willing to give him up over Taj or Mirotic.

Rumor Press @NBARumorPress · 11h
If any Bulls deal happens with Minnesota and/or Cleveland, McDermott is unlikely to be involved.

I thought Mirotic was the one with the promise.

I'm not buying anyone knows right now.

My exact thoughts as well!

Mis-information for the win.

Now...put McD, Mirotic, Taj, MDJ (or Snell), and some picks out there for Love and Martin. Sign Marion, sign Nazr. Win titles.

[Polynice4Pippen]

I never said it would take years. It may only take one season, but if this season is all about championships and 'going for it', Mirotic taking one season to assimilate, which is very plausible, may hurt us if we deal Gibson now and could expose us up front, which is meant to be a strength for us as we stand right now.

You're not factoring in the personal issues he will need to go through, not to mention adjusting to the NBA game.

Comparing him to Gibson is meaningless.

You're doing a ton of assuming here. There's just as good a chance Mirotic steps right in like a Plumlee or Steven Adams. Also, as is we're going to be exposed at SG anyway. May as well try and shore that up and roll with your top European prospect being good enough to be a back up.

This is kind of funny .. The circles we are going on.

We can say the same thing about McDermott now that people are saying about Niko.. Cause I have no problem with him starting at the 3. We can roll like that. I think he is already a better player than Kevin Martin.. RIGHT NOW.

Sure you can say it. You can even believe it. But it's not grounded anywhere in reality. Martin is a proven 20 ppg scorer in the NBA. Also, there's a huge difference from being a starting SF and teams top offensive wing player to being a back up PF behind a pair of all-star bigs.