Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[SpinninHouse]

Solid offer from the Knicks for Love. Is that what Melo mortgaged his future for? Lol

Maybe they can then trade Bargnani and Early for Rondo and a first.

Can't off Boston that deal until GSW accepts/rejects Phil's standing offer STAT, Prignoni and Early for Steph Curry and Klay Thompson.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

[kingkirk]

Re talk about two way players and whether Butler is one or not, what makes one a two way player?

At what point does one become one or not? I think if Jimmy was somewhere like Phoenix last season, running lanes, taking open corner 3s and cutting baseline, all whilst giving them 13-15 a game, perceptions would quickly change on what type of player he is.

You don't have to create your own shot to be a two way player. I think we've forgotten what player Butler can be on the offensive end.

He is a role player who relies on others, so naturally, when you start removing guys like Rose and Deng whilst asking him to play 40 minutes, provide elite defense and give you 15 a game, that's asking a heap.

I think Butler is in for a big season doing what he does best.

[kingkirk]

Amare, Iman, and HJR for Love.... Thats embarrassing. Why did Phil even bother? He looks like a joke with that offer.

It's a matter of me believing in the organization, believing in Phil. I wanted to go somewhere where I can end my career. I feel like we have a brand-new team. It's a new beginning. It's excited.

The New York Knicks recently offered the Minnesota Timberwolves a package of Amar'e Stoudemire, Tim Hardaway Jr. and Iman Shumpert for Kevin Love, according to a source.

The Timberwolves reportedly declined the offer.

Hardaway has good value around the NBA, but Shumpert could be in line for a raise once his rookie contract ends and Stoudemire has one season left on his big contract.

The Knicks could offer Love a maximum contract if he becomes a free agent next offseason.

[Proven_Winner]

Re talk about two way players and whether Butler is one or not, what makes one a two way player?

At what point does one become one or not? I think if Jimmy was somewhere like Phoenix last season, running lanes, taking open corner 3s and cutting baseline, all whilst giving them 13-15 a game, perceptions would quickly change on what type of player he is.

You don't have to create your own shot to be a two way player. I think we've forgotten what player Butler can be on the offensive end.

He is a role player who relies on others, so naturally, when you start removing guys like Rose and Deng whilst asking him to play 40 minutes, provide elite defense and give you 15 a game, that's asking a heap.

I think Butler is in for a big season doing what he does best.

I think alot of people are sleeping on Jimmy because they expected him to put up big scoring numbers, but for pretty much most of the season he had to play the most minutes, guard the best player on the floor, and then was pushed out of his comfort zone. When you check the 1st 10 games when Rose was here Jimmy had alot of good games where you see he was pretty efficient from 3, FG, and FT.

I think Jimmy will be the X factor this year because we need him to be a better shooter while also being a tad more aggressive. Its just hard for me to believe Jimmy's sophomore run was a fluke and that he can't recreate what he did. I think there's a reason other than his defense for why he got selected for the USA select team. They believe he has potential to become a good 2 way player all he needs is a better handle, fix his shot, and be more aggressive. Hopefully his experience there will lead to him having a career year like it did for Derrick and Taj.

[BullsFTW]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/status/492888722246213633[/tweet]

Multiple league sources told FOX Sports Ohio on Friday they are under the impression Love has relayed his desire for a trade to Cleveland to his agent. Love is represented by Jeff Schwartz.

Sounds like the Cavs Front Office work lol

[molepharmer]

....I bet you could easily get anyone you want from Minnesota if Mirotic or McBuckets is offered.

if you guys would do this then Minnesota fans would faint on top of getting Wiggins

Gibson + Mirotic + McBuckets + Dunleavy for Pek + Martin + Brewer + GR3 + Maybe a 2nd

But I think that would be to much to ask from you, I'm sure they would like

Gibson + Mirotic + Dunleavy for Pek + Martin + GR3

Then again that might even be to much lol

Mirotic and McDermott are going no where, unless it's for somebody of Love's ilk. No need for Wolves fans to rack their brains trying to come up with some kind of offer worthy of M & M that doesn't include Love.

[coldfish]

During the whole Carmelo thing, there was lots and lots of smoke that Melo was just going to take the money in NY. There was comments that he was interested in Chicago which kept the threads going but for the most part, the stuff out there was NY and it was right. Really early on Sam Smith said that the thought was that Melo was using NY to get his full max and we called him senile.

Right now, there is lots and lots of stuff out there that links Love to Cleveland. Maybe it happens and maybe it doesn't but the odds of Chicago getting him are very slim. I think its blatantly obvious that Minnesota is using Chicago as leverage. I would love Love on the Bulls but don't really see the point in arguing the benefits of bringing in a player who will not be brought in. I kind of wonder if the people downplaying the trade discussions are really doing so as a defense mechanism. When he doesn't come, it won't be sour grapes when people explain how it is better that way.

[samwana]

During the whole Carmelo thing, there was lots and lots of smoke that Melo was just going to take the money in NY. There was comments that he was interested in Chicago which kept the threads going but for the most part, the stuff out there was NY and it was right. Really early on Sam Smith said that the thought was that Melo was using NY to get his full max and we called him senile.

Right now, there is lots and lots of stuff out there that links Love to Cleveland. Maybe it happens and maybe it doesn't but the odds of Chicago getting him are very slim. I think its blatantly obvious that Minnesota is using Chicago as leverage. I would love Love on the Bulls but don't really see the point in arguing the benefits of bringing in a player who will not be brought in. I kind of wonder if the people downplaying the trade discussions are really doing so as a defense mechanism. When he doesn't come, it won't be sour grapes when people explain how it is better that way.

Seems right on, from the moment Chicago came in as an option it sounded untrue to me, just leverage, but this time Chicago has very much interest in driving up the price. The more the Cavs have to give up the better for us. Let them bleed for Love. I wouldn't like overpaying in a bidding war.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

The Knicks are so cute when they're trying to play big-boy basketball.

[blumeany]

I don't think Minny is *using* the Bulls. I see them both working in tandem.

[blumeany]

The Knicks are so cute when they're trying to play big-boy basketball.

I think Phil bit off more than he could chew. For the first time he came into a situation that wasn't pre-baked for him. The Knicks are a mess in every way and it won't be a quick transition. That's why I'm puzzled that Phil didn't just trade Melo and start the process of acquiring cheap assets and offloading salary.

[johnnyvann840]

I think alot of people are sleeping on Jimmy because they expected him to put up big scoring numbers, but for pretty much most of the season he had to play the most minutes, guard the best player on the floor, and then was pushed out of his comfort zone. When you check the 1st 10 games when Rose was here Jimmy had alot of good games where you see he was pretty efficient from 3, FG, and FT.

I think Jimmy will be the X factor this year because we need him to be a better shooter while also being a tad more aggressive. Its just hard for me to believe Jimmy's sophomore run was a fluke and that he can't recreate what he did. I think there's a reason other than his defense for why he got selected for the USA select team. They believe he has potential to become a good 2 way player all he needs is a better handle, fix his shot, and be more aggressive. Hopefully his experience there will lead to him having a career year like it did for Derrick and Taj.

I agree. I just feel so strongly that Jimmy is gonna be 2013 Jimmy, early last season Jimmy,shooting the ball again. We have a good size sample where Jimmy has shot the ball well.

Regarding him being a two way player- Jimmy can be a very good offensive player if his shot is falling... and it has for extended period and under great pressure.. just not last season.. but it's not like he's old and in decline. He had a turf toe issue that never got a chance to rest because we needed him, because we were only 7 deep. And the minutes and role were just not right.. He can go back to being what he does best. getting to the line and knocking down the corner 3 and playing all NBA defense.

Keith Bogans wasn't a two way player.. Jimmy is. He's gonna surpriise a lot of people this season. I feel it... I'm drinking the Red Koolaid. Be great to get Love, but it aint happening... I want to run with the team we have.

[StephenAA]

I dont think Phoenix if they have ambitions for success would trade Dragic away,he will be even better I think this season. I WOULD LOVE to see him in Bulls jersey,but Its doubtful he is going anywhere.

Taj, Butler for Dragic! would be great trade..

Back to reality.. We have a really good team right now and very balanced..NO NEED for LOVE,just sign another vet on minimum and LETS START!

Are we talking about the same guy that Rose had a highlight dunk on a few years ago ??
Isn't he the guy that plays mostly PG, and not a wing position ??

What am I missing ??

AA

[Ice the knees]

I dont think Phoenix if they have ambitions for success would trade Dragic away,he will be even better I think this season. I WOULD LOVE to see him in Bulls jersey,but Its doubtful he is going anywhere.

Taj, Butler for Dragic! would be great trade..

Back to reality.. We have a really good team right now and very balanced..NO NEED for LOVE,just sign another vet on minimum and LETS START!

Are we talking about the same guy that Rose had a highlight dunk on a few years ago ??
Isn't he the guy that plays mostly PG, and not a wing position ??

What am I missing ??

AA

Dragic actually plays a lot like Rose. Constant aggression. A north and south mentality with the ball in their hands and a willingness to go to the rim hard.

Dragic, to me, is definitely a PG. However, his aggressiveness allows him to play either guard spot. A lot like Rose. But yeah, basically 2 PGs if you do Rose/Dragic...And the problem to me is that both are most effective with the ball in their hands. Very similar players imo

[othawhitemeat]

So Taj's trade value is now equal to Goran Dragic, a guy who just was voted to the All-NBA third team, was a runaway winner for MIP, and just put up a season of 20-6 and had a season that rivals Derrick's MVP years in numbers.

Taj honestly is one of the best Power Forwards in the game. Anthony Davis, Kevin Love, Blake Griffin, Alridge, Ibaka, Nowitski (getting close to end of career), Bosh (questionable), in time Monroe, Millsap. So I have about 6 for sure right now (Nowitski basically for 1 more year), Bosh who might be now as a #1 scorer for team (but not by much), Monroe not yet, but with right coaching, that might change, Millsap slightly more but if Tajywoo had Millsap's role last year, I would think he might put up similiar numbers with better d and less rebounding. I put Taj above David Lee and West considering West is downhill and Lee is a scorer but not impactful one. Therefore, you have Taj as a top 10 PF, probably the third best defender in the group if including Davis/Ibaka in terms of impact, someone while 29 does not have a ton of mileage (think of someone more like 27 in terms of playing days. Then I am talking about throwing in one of Snell/Butler (preferably Snell) and a number 1 pick for Dragic and one of the Morris twins (since they don't need 3 PF's). Add this to the fact that other than maybe Millsap, what type of power forward that is this good gets paid what Taj does?

Dragic is pretty good, but in a typical year, not 3rd team all NBA. Also, outside of Phoenix, he struggled (but Houston also did not give him a fair shake). Maybe Phoenix holds out for something better, but this is a pretty good deal for both teams. Taj is one year older than Dragic and Phoenix is now explosive athletically at every position besides the small forward (unless they get Butler too).

So yes, I make the trade and I think Phoenix thinks hard about it. Taj would start for probably for 80% of NBA teams and is an impactful player. The Suns just signed I. Thomas so I don't see the need for Dragic as he is strictly a 2 guard that is a free agent coming up. The Bulls while Gasol is injury prone and Mirotic is a rookie, is somewhat crowded. If we can get a less impactful but useful Morris twin, we still have depth, but more of what we need and Suns get a really good Taj on a cheap contract, a possible project in Snell who has a game but needs to put it together, and a first round pick that could be really good.

[Adenusi]

I hope Minny trades with Bulls because of my hate for Cav fans and their media. I want Wiggins but would rather see the Bulls sweep the Cavs in the ECF. It'd have to be McDermott, Sac pick, Taj or Mirotic for Love

or McDermott, Sac pick, first rounder for Love+Martin. If a trade was to go down. That's what i'd want but i'm sure Flip wants one of your PF's (prolly Mirotic).

[Ice the knees]

Oh come on, Taj is not a top 10 PF. He's in the 20 range. He can start for a handful a teams.

I think you have to remember that Taj struggles with consistency and at close to 30 years old, that's not changing.

If you take Taj and lets say Pau just since we have him on the squad, and I ask you to guess Pau's next statline for tomorrow's game. You could probably give me something very close to his line...16/7 or something like that. Every game, dead on.

Now with Taj, you would have a hard time with his stat line. It would depend on the kind of night Taj is having...Is he bringing energy, is he focused, is he going to pick up 2 quick ones, is he looking for his shot?

Taj plays the role he plays because it's much easier for Thibs to use him as necessary and not have to rely on him night in and night out to produce...He can just insert Taj for defense/energy and take whatever else Taj brings that night.

To me, knowing that Taj is my dad's favorite player, says something about the guy. He's not the most talented or consistent dude, but it's easy to recognize his effort, and us fans love that. But I think it's important not to lose perspective of Taj's place in the basketball world. I mean one of the very best teams in the league, the Bulls, have gone out of their way now to not start Taj...He has a place in the NBA and he is great at what he does, but I wouldn't rely on his skill set to bring consistency to the starter position.

[PrimzyBulls81]

I rather trade Mirotic than Taj and I rather trade Butler,than McDermott or Snell..

So if Mirotic, Butler and 1st gets us Love -ok,if not - lets move on..

[StephenAA]

What you mean Pek and Martin?

I don't think we're talking to them about Pek, but yea maybe Martin, Brewer, Budinger shoot I wouldn't be surprised if were trying to talk to them for even Bazz muhammad. I just don't think we are getting involved for Love because our package doesn't come to being as good as clevelands package.

First of all don't doubt your offer. A lot of Minnesota fans loved what you offered. Most wanted this
Love + GR3 + Turiaf for Gibson + Mirotic + McBuckets + Snell + 1st. I personally think your offer is better than Cavs. You offer more players that have upsides then Cavs. Cavs is just Wiggins and a pick with you its a pick + Snell + McBuckets + Mirotic.

I bet you could easily get anyone you want from Minnesota if Mirotic or McBuckets is offered.

if you guys would do this then Minnesota fans would faint on top of getting Wiggins

Gibson + Mirotic + McBuckets + Dunleavy for Pek + Martin + Brewer + GR3 + Maybe a 2nd

But I think that would be to much to ask from you, I'm sure they would like

Gibson + Mirotic + Dunleavy for Pek + Martin + GR3

Then again that might even be to much lol

Kbrow, thanks for chiming in! It's good to hear an outside perspective...

Just so you know, the "clarified" rumor was Mirotic OR McDermot, not both.
Obviously, if we were getting Love back, it would be Mirotic, who most likely would have been a 4th or 5th pick in this 2014 deep draft.

Compare Mirotic to Wiggins, and the Cavs win - but not by much.
Compare Taj to TT, and the Bulls win - but not by much (TT is younger).
Compare Snell to Waiters, and the Cavs win - but not by much (Snell looked great in SL, and clearly has a lot of potential, and of course has a better head on his shoulder).
Compare our first to the Cavs first (We can flip-flop our first with the Cavs in 2015), and the Bulls win - but not by much.

It really depends on what the MN FO wants.

However, having said all that, I believe the Bulls FO gave Mirotic a promise he would not be traded - therefore ending the practical reason we would even need Love.

AA

[rtblues]

Amare, Iman, and HJR for Love.... Thats embarrassing. Why did Phil even bother? He looks like a joke with that offer.

It's a matter of me believing in the organization, believing in Phil. I wanted to go somewhere where I can end my career. I feel like we have a brand-new team. It's a new beginning. It's excited.

The New York Knicks recently offered the Minnesota Timberwolves a package of Amar'e Stoudemire, Tim Hardaway Jr. and Iman Shumpert for Kevin Love, according to a source.

The Timberwolves reportedly declined the offer.

Hardaway has good value around the NBA, but Shumpert could be in line for a raise once his rookie contract ends and Stoudemire has one season left on his big contract.

The Knicks could offer Love a maximum contract if he becomes a free agent next offseason.

The first time I saw this online, I thought it was from "The Onion"