Moderators: HomoSapien, AshyLarrysDiaper, coldfish, Payt10, Ice Man, dougthonus, Michael Jackson, Tommy Udo 6 , kulaz3000, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, RedBulls23
jc23 wrote:No Love for team usa huh? well that sucks, seems like a precautionary move before a trade. Melo and Love were our best options at bringing in another star, we all in on the Spur depth model now boys and gals.
Peelboy wrote:Ice the knees wrote:
I think it's pretty clear the Bulls don't see Taj as a starter. And that doesn't mean they don't value him, but to the Bulls he's a 6th man.
There is literally zero evidence he is anything else to them. They got Gasol because it's a big upgrade over having Taj start.
This isn't a slight on Taj, I just find it hard to believe the "Taj is a starter" crowd when outside of his rookie year, he has never been a starter...It's not like he's accidently a backup. The Bulls are a very prudent FO, they know what they see in Taj and what they need from him
I disagree. I think the Bulls think of Taj as starter caliber, but in terms of options available to improve the team, Gasol was their best option, and between the two, Taj is better suited to come off the bench at both PF/C than Gasol. It's that simple. It was the same with Boozer - Taj played the important minutes, but he was capable of coming off the bench whereas Boozer wouldn't be near as productive in that role. A great analog is Manu - he comes off the bench but is clearly a "starter caliber" guy and plays starter minutes/at crunch time.
Question for the Bulls was "is our team better if we sign Lance and start Taj, is it better if we sign Pau and have Taj come off the bench, or is it better if we do nothing and start Taj?". Their decision (shared by at least some here) is that their choice of Pau was the best available.
johnnyvann840 wrote:Peelboy wrote:Ice the knees wrote:
I think it's pretty clear the Bulls don't see Taj as a starter. And that doesn't mean they don't value him, but to the Bulls he's a 6th man.
There is literally zero evidence he is anything else to them. They got Gasol because it's a big upgrade over having Taj start.
This isn't a slight on Taj, I just find it hard to believe the "Taj is a starter" crowd when outside of his rookie year, he has never been a starter...It's not like he's accidently a backup. The Bulls are a very prudent FO, they know what they see in Taj and what they need from him
I disagree. I think the Bulls think of Taj as starter caliber, but in terms of options available to improve the team, Gasol was their best option, and between the two, Taj is better suited to come off the bench at both PF/C than Gasol. It's that simple. It was the same with Boozer - Taj played the important minutes, but he was capable of coming off the bench whereas Boozer wouldn't be near as productive in that role. A great analog is Manu - he comes off the bench but is clearly a "starter caliber" guy and plays starter minutes/at crunch time.
Question for the Bulls was "is our team better if we sign Lance and start Taj, is it better if we sign Pau and have Taj come off the bench, or is it better if we do nothing and start Taj?". Their decision (shared by at least some here) is that their choice of Pau was the best available.
I was on the Lance train. And I do like that better when you look at it from a far. But Lance was a wildcard and a risky character, but I thought a risk worth taking. Against my better judgment.
Pau is a true pro and can only help whether a starter or playing most the back up C minutes and some of the 4. He should play about 24-25 MPG, MAX at his age and injury frequency. He's like Kirk in minutes (not skill or anything else relax) Kirk actually should play a little less. That leaves 72 minutes. If you cap Jo at 30 there is 42 for Taj and Niko. Taj is probably gonna get 29-30 of them. Mirotic will stil get 17-20 MPG, just 5-10 will be at the 3. That is my prediction for the MPG breakdown if the team stays as is. So, I don't see the problem really. Especially since that is assuming nobody getting hurt, ever.
Ben wrote:johnnyvann840 wrote:Peelboy wrote:
I disagree. I think the Bulls think of Taj as starter caliber, but in terms of options available to improve the team, Gasol was their best option, and between the two, Taj is better suited to come off the bench at both PF/C than Gasol. It's that simple. It was the same with Boozer - Taj played the important minutes, but he was capable of coming off the bench whereas Boozer wouldn't be near as productive in that role. A great analog is Manu - he comes off the bench but is clearly a "starter caliber" guy and plays starter minutes/at crunch time.
Question for the Bulls was "is our team better if we sign Lance and start Taj, is it better if we sign Pau and have Taj come off the bench, or is it better if we do nothing and start Taj?". Their decision (shared by at least some here) is that their choice of Pau was the best available.
I was on the Lance train. And I do like that better when you look at it from a far. But Lance was a wildcard and a risky character, but I thought a risk worth taking. Against my better judgment.
Pau is a true pro and can only help whether a starter or playing most the back up C minutes and some of the 4. He should play about 24-25 MPG, MAX at his age and injury frequency. He's like Kirk in minutes (not skill or anything else relax) Kirk actually should play a little less. That leaves 72 minutes. If you cap Jo at 30 there is 42 for Taj and Niko. Taj is probably gonna get 29-30 of them. Mirotic will stil get 17-20 MPG, just 5-10 will be at the 3. That is my prediction for the MPG breakdown if the team stays as is. So, I don't see the problem really. Especially since that is assuming nobody getting hurt, ever.
It's also not likely that we could have signed Lance and also brought over Mirotic. Lance signed for $9M in his first year and we gave Pau $7.13M in his first year. And then we had to scramble like heck to dump salary (Greg Smith, Anthony Randolph) just to be able to give Niko his MLE-level deal.
bad knees wrote:Ben wrote:It's also not likely that we could have signed Lance and also brought over Mirotic. Lance signed for $9M in his first year and we gave Pau $7.13M in his first year. And then we had to scramble like heck to dump salary (Greg Smith, Anthony Randolph) just to be able to give Niko his MLE-level deal.
To sign Lance and Mirotic, we would have had to do everything that we did to open cap space, plus deal MDJ for cap space. I think it would have been doable.
Shill wrote:So a six-game sample size? From two seasons ago at that?
We have heaps of regular season data to properly analyze Taj's game.
That's what you get when you make an outlandish statement.
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
nomorezorro wrote:if you ignore one of kevin love's biggest strengths as a player, he's basically david lee!
Ben wrote:bad knees wrote:Ben wrote:It's also not likely that we could have signed Lance and also brought over Mirotic. Lance signed for $9M in his first year and we gave Pau $7.13M in his first year. And then we had to scramble like heck to dump salary (Greg Smith, Anthony Randolph) just to be able to give Niko his MLE-level deal.
To sign Lance and Mirotic, we would have had to do everything that we did to open cap space, plus deal MDJ for cap space. I think it would have been doable.
Probably true. Just want to clarify that it wouldn't simply have been Pau vs. Lance, but Pau + MDJ vs. Lance. I was against salary-dumping MDJ if we would have had to pay Lance $11-$12M, but at $9M/year the prospect wouldn't have seemed so bad.
Of course, we would have needed to get at least one more very good shooter for the vet minimum, and I'm not exactly sure who that would have been at that point in the offseason.
FecesOfDeath wrote:And we have ZERO playoff sample data to properly analyze Kevin Love's game. Taj has proven his worth in the playoffs with an 11-game sample size of excellence, a 16-game sample size of very good (in his second season, no less), and two poor playoff performances -- one as a rookie, and another as so hobbled that he was relegated to guarding Ray Allen.
You've yet to constructively counter the statement except with a sophomoric gif.
David Lee is very good. He's an 18 and 10 guy, an efficient scorer, a two-time All-Star, and his career PER has been around 19. The only reason his PER is "only" 19 and not 25 like Love's is is because he doesn't shoot threes. Other than that, there is very little difference between David Lee and Kevin Love. Both are undersized bumslaying PFs with nearly identical wingspans and standing reaches, average defenders, plus rebounders, great passers, have middling post-up games, and have zero shotblocking abilities.
Scottie Pippen's response to whom he would pick for his running mate, Michael or LeBron: "That's a dumbass question. I've never done anything with LeBron. I wouldn't take LeBron to the movies."
rtblues wrote:Proven_Winner wrote:rtblues wrote:The way some guys over-value guys on their teams. Get a grip...
Kinda like they were buddies with the dude or something.
Gotta be realistic, firstly, it's a business. Cleveland knows this, and now Miami does too.
They are stacked at Taj's position.
He's almost 30, virtually no upside remaining. WYSIWYG at this point.
They could use a wing-player, who can shoot, score, create.
With the additions of Gasol and Mirotic, it's highly unlikely that Taj's minutes go up, they would, in fact, they most likely be going down, if he should remain with the Bulls.
He probably is at his peak trade value right now. A year from now, not so much.
We wouldn't really be losing a "go-to-guy", all-star, or D.P.O.Y., but rather a journeyman, perennial bench player.
When I do the math, he's the odd-man out.
They can get someone good for him, at a position that better serves the overall needs of the team.
Appreciate his work, wish him luck, but sorry, no bro-mance here....
The way some guys underrate their own players because they aren't all stars. Get a grip...
Insightful. Thanks for sharing your expertise.
DuckIII wrote:Makes me think about the last name Loveless. That a pretty messed up name to ponder.
DanTown8587 wrote:Taj Gibson has played 44 playoff games. How many times has he scored above 15 points in those games? Twice, games 2 and 4 against Washington.
What "excellent" history in the playoffs are we talking about? He was **** atrocious last year.
12 games
6.5 points
3.0 rebounds
17.2 minutes
PER of 12.3
TS of .515
Got to love Taj having two really strong playoff games and now all of the sudden he's a playoff legend. And in one of those games, the Wizards were without a starting big man due to suspension and then had their third big in foul trouble.
Are we going to be fair in analysis? Taj played well for some of that series and didn't play well for other parts of it.