Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[Red Larrivee]

I just have to note that the one thing that really struck me about Mirotic in the games I saw was his poor motor. Its not a lazy analysis at all. Mirotic has very poor defensive instincts and for the most part, just hangs around the perimeter on offense. His athletic numbers look awful to me. Slow footed and poor vertical. If anything, Bargnani looks to be the quicker of the two.

Maybe what I saw was all scheme and I might buy that for some of the issues, but you can't fake the slow footedness and low vertical that I saw.

To be honest, your description of Bargnani matched what I saw in Mirotic for the most part.

All due respect, but everything you just said is the complete opposite of what's been said by scouts of Mirotic and what has shown up in most of his games.

Mirotic definitely isn't slow footed. He's got excellent mobility for a big man. He doesn't look to be a great defender, but that's the least of concerns on a Tom Thibodeau team.

[Ralphb07]

If the Bulls trade Gibson for Waiters, GarPax should be immediately fired for not only making the team worse but also significantly strengthening the team's biggest foe in the East.

Thankfully GarPax are not that stupid.

Cleveland thinks differently than you. They feel Waiters and Thompson make the Bulls stronger and they don't want to give the Bulls that. If you knew what player Cleveland wants along with Love and what they're willing to give up. You'd not only laugh at the Cavs but wonder if they can actually pull a Love deal off at all. Cleveland needs to step up or they might not get Love at all.

[RedBulls23]

The problem w the taj for wing play is there are very few good SGs in the league rt now.

Taj>Martin
Taj>Waiters
Taj>Burks
Etc.

I like Taj for Dragic but I don't think the Bulls FO would. Thibs wants size on the wing and Dragic is the same size as Kirk w out the D. Dragic is also at an all time high due to his breakout season (w Bledsoe on the bench hurt and his stats inflated) and his cheap contract.

If Snell can carry over his SL confidence he really is the perfect SG especially next to Mc3. Spaces the floor, length on D for 2/3s, can handle, can pass, can create out of PnR.

I want to wait and see what happens. I think Snell could be our guy especially w Rose and Mc3 making offense easier for him.

Agree with all of this.

I'm eager to see how Snell has progressed.

I'm one of the posters that feel like we need an upgrade on the wing, but now that I think about it more I'm very open to seeing what we have before making any moves.

There are a couple things the FO needs to see before they can really make an impact move. 3 of them in not particular order:

1). What is DRoses status and how he plays
2). What do the Bulls have in Butler/Snell/McDermott
3). What do they have in Mirotic

Now I could ignore those 3 things if we are talking about trading for Love, but the more I think about trading for a wing, I would like to see how the above 3 things pan out.

[RedBulls23]

we're still arguing about that mythical Taj trade Ralph made up?

He didn't make it up so...

I thought Ralph said that's just speculation on his part.

You thought wrong. He stated that his sources told him about what was being talked about.

[LordBaldric]

Saunders has so much power because an incestuous Country Club mentality rules over the Timberwolves. Glen Taylor makes his decisions based on his comfort level with the parties involved, and he is oh so comfortable with Flip. Notice how their assistant coaches are: a former Wolves head and assistant coach (Lowe), a former Wolves player (Mitchell), the coach's son (Ryan Saunders), and also former coach Adelman's son (David Adelman). Seeing the pattern here?

[NecessaryEvil]

If the Bulls trade Gibson for Waiters, GarPax should be immediately fired for not only making the team worse but also significantly strengthening the team's biggest foe in the East.

Thankfully GarPax are not that stupid.

Cleveland thinks differently than you. They feel Waiters and Thompson make the Bulls stronger and they don't want to give the Bulls that. If you knew what player Cleveland wants along with Love and what they're willing to give up. You'd not only laugh at the Cavs but wonder if they can actually pull a Love deal off at all. Cleveland needs to step up or they might not get Love at all.

I'mma guess Dieng...

[RedBulls23]

we're still arguing about that mythical Taj trade Ralph made up?

More like we're still arguing over finally replacing your boy BG.

Shhhh...he still thinks BG is coming back.

[kingkirk]

We understand this. Does this mean we continue to ignore an obvious weakness? Especially when we finally had the opportunity to fix it this summer via free agency and cap space or with available trades due to depth in the front court.

I am not saying to ignore it. I am saying let's stop being so insular and look around the league and realise that we have many things going for us that other teams want and can't have without giving up something for it.

There is no depth in the front court until Bairstow and Mirotic prove this argument correct. Until then, it's only a possibility. At this point, it's not a fact.

[Polynice4Pippen]

We understand this. Does this mean we continue to ignore an obvious weakness? Especially when we finally had the opportunity to fix it this summer via free agency and cap space or with available trades due to depth in the front court.

I am not saying to ignore it. I am saying let's stop being so insular and look around the league and realise that we have many things going for us that other teams want and can't have without giving up something for it.

There is no depth in the front court until Bairstow and Mirotic prove this argument correct. Until then, it's only a possibility. At this point, it's not a fact.

And there's absolutely no playmaking at the wing spot for us. But apparently that is something we should all quietly ignore.

[NecessaryEvil]

We understand this. Does this mean we continue to ignore an obvious weakness? Especially when we finally had the opportunity to fix it this summer via free agency and cap space or with available trades due to depth in the front court.

I am not saying to ignore it. I am saying let's stop being so insular and look around the league and realise that we have many things going for us that other teams want and can't have without giving up something for it.

There is no depth in the front court until Bairstow and Mirotic prove this argument correct. Until then, it's only a possibility. At this point, it's not a fact.

And there's absolutely no playmaking at the wing spot for us. But apparently that is something we should all quietly ignore.

Exactly..

Kirk Hinrich is the 2nd best playmaker on the wings for us. Kirk Hinrich...

[kingkirk]

I'm one of the posters that feel like we need an upgrade on the wing, but now that I think about it more I'm very open to seeing what we have before making any moves.

There are a couple things the FO needs to see before they can really make an impact move. 3 of them in not particular order:

1). What is DRoses status and how he plays
2). What do the Bulls have in Butler/Snell/McDermott
3). What do they have in Mirotic

Now I could ignore those 3 things if we are talking about trading for Love, but the more I think about trading for a wing, I would like to see how the above 3 things pan out.

Whether true or not, and likely the latter, i am going to take credit for you holding this view and will assume my constant nonsense and bable has lead you to this point.

I completely agree with everything you noted here.

If Butler & McDermott can give us 13 PPG, through multiple avenues, whilst Snell gives us 9-10 PPG with range from 3s and quality defense, suddenly, the wing issue is not as bad as it is now.

However, maybe it is bad. Maybe Butler proves he is not a reliable 2 way player. Perhaps Snell & McDermott contribute little.

Maybe Rose is never the same again and we've got the new Penny Hardaway on our hands that is earning the super max whilst providing play that wouldn't even justify half of that.

The point is simple, as you noted. We have many questions on this team that remain unanswered. Time will tell us all.

[Polynice4Pippen]

I am not saying to ignore it. I am saying let's stop being so insular and look around the league and realise that we have many things going for us that other teams want and can't have without giving up something for it.

There is no depth in the front court until Bairstow and Mirotic prove this argument correct. Until then, it's only a possibility. At this point, it's not a fact.

And there's absolutely no playmaking at the wing spot for us. But apparently that is something we should all quietly ignore.

Exactly..

Kirk Hinrich is the 2nd best playmaker on the wings for us. Kirk Hinrich...

And there's a very real chance Hinrich is playing SG for us down the stretch of playoff games. There's no chance however that we'll be playing Taj/Pau/Joakim all together down the stretch of playoff games. So again, I just find it hard to understand why we value a player and position who'll be on the bench at crunch time over a starting SG who will most certainly be out there at crunch time and needed to take pressure off Derrick. Just baffling.

[kingkirk]

And there's absolutely no playmaking at the wing spot for us. But apparently that is something we should all quietly ignore.

Just in case you missed it, here is what i said.

I am not saying to ignore it.

But please, carry on otherwise suggesting i said to ignore it...

[Ralphb07]

If the Bulls trade Gibson for Waiters, GarPax should be immediately fired for not only making the team worse but also significantly strengthening the team's biggest foe in the East.

Thankfully GarPax are not that stupid.

Cleveland thinks differently than you. They feel Waiters and Thompson make the Bulls stronger and they don't want to give the Bulls that. If you knew what player Cleveland wants along with Love and what they're willing to give up. You'd not only laugh at the Cavs but wonder if they can actually pull a Love deal off at all. Cleveland needs to step up or they might not get Love at all.

I'mma guess Dieng...

It's someone from the Bulls and way better than Dieng.

[Swarles Xavier]

If the Bulls trade Gibson for Waiters, GarPax should be immediately fired for not only making the team worse but also significantly strengthening the team's biggest foe in the East.

Thankfully GarPax are not that stupid.

Cleveland thinks differently than you. They feel Waiters and Thompson make the Bulls stronger and they don't want to give the Bulls that. If you knew what player Cleveland wants along with Love and what they're willing to give up. You'd not only laugh at the Cavs but wonder if they can actually pull a Love deal off at all. Cleveland needs to step up or they might not get Love at all.

Laughable? Turiaf? Maybe Lebron wants as much familiar faces as possible.

[Polynice4Pippen]

And there's absolutely no playmaking at the wing spot for us. But apparently that is something we should all quietly ignore.

Just in case you missed it, here is what i said.

I am not saying to ignore it.

But please, carry on otherwise suggesting i said to ignore it...

You're not saying to ignore it, but you're not saying to address it either. Are you running for public office anytime soon?

[[e]]

Cleveland thinks differently than you. They feel Waiters and Thompson make the Bulls stronger and they don't want to give the Bulls that. If you knew what player Cleveland wants along with Love and what they're willing to give up. You'd not only laugh at the Cavs but wonder if they can actually pull a Love deal off at all. Cleveland needs to step up or they might not get Love at all.

I'mma guess Dieng...

It's someone from the Bulls and way better than Dieng.

Noah? Taj?

[Ice the knees]

I'mma guess Dieng...

It's someone from the Bulls and way better than Dieng.

Noah? Taj?

Probably Butler. I doubt LBJ wants to deal with him all season

[nomorezorro]

the roster is not locked into place when the first game begins. there is sooo much time to evaluate how players have changed since last year and how all of the new pieces (and old, returning pieces) fit in with one another

if everything stays the same from last year, then yes, it makes sense to move taj for a sg or sf of similar calibre. if you can line up a sg or sf of a similar calibre now, it would probably make sense to make that trade before the season starts. it would even make sense to take a slight talent downgrade if you knew that your frontcourt rotation would be fine losing taj and that your wing rotation was seriously crappy

at this point, barring that deal where you get a player with the same impact as taj gibson except at a position of grater need, i think it's better to wait so there are fewer unknown variables

[GetBuLLish]

If the Bulls trade Gibson for Waiters, GarPax should be immediately fired for not only making the team worse but also significantly strengthening the team's biggest foe in the East.

Thankfully GarPax are not that stupid.

Cleveland thinks differently than you. They feel Waiters and Thompson make the Bulls stronger and they don't want to give the Bulls that. If you knew what player Cleveland wants along with Love and what they're willing to give up. You'd not only laugh at the Cavs but wonder if they can actually pull a Love deal off at all. Cleveland needs to step up or they might not get Love at all.

Cleveland can eff off, then. If I'm the Bulls, I offer MDJ and a protected pick for Waiters. Waiters is a player with headcase problems without the stats to justify it. He's on his way to being a 4th overall pick bust.

It seems like Cleveland has gotten a little too full of itself after a streak of ridiculous luck. Again, eff em.

Also, it seems like you may be saying they want Noah...