Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[[e]]

It's someone from the Bulls and way better than Dieng.

Noah? Taj?

Probably Butler. I doubt LBJ wants to deal with him all season

Good call lol. LeHandpicked James.

[Polynice4Pippen]

the roster is not locked into place when the first game begins. there is sooo much time to evaluate how players have changed since last year and how all of the new pieces (and old, returning pieces) fit in with one another

if everything stays the same from last year, then yes, it makes sense to move taj for a sg or sf of similar calibre. if you can line up a sg or sf of a similar calibre now, it would probably make sense to make that trade before the season starts. it would even make sense to take a slight talent downgrade if you knew that your frontcourt rotation would be fine losing taj and that your wing rotation was seriously crappy

at this point, barring that deal where you get a player with the same impact as taj gibson except at a position of grater need, i think it's better to wait so there are fewer unknown variables

Hopefully Gar/Pax get it done with this Minnesota deal. I don't blame them for not landing Melo, they did all they could. But when you have cap space and use it on a position that was presumably already a strength while leaving an obvious area of weakness unaddressed (for years now) then that's not a great offseason, I'm sorry. And I like Gasol and think he'll be really good for us. But what's next, we bring in Doc Rivers to be Thibs' back up and act like our coaching depth erases obvious weaknesses? I'm encouraged though by Gar/Pax's apparent interest in a scoring wing.

[kingkirk]

You're not saying to ignore it, but you're not saying to address it either. Are you running for public office anytime soon?

I have said neither of those things. If you have assumed that because i am not all in for dealing Taj Gibson for Kevin Martin then that is your own issues or emotions with this topic, whilst overlooking the content of my posts.

[BeatDaCavs420]

Coached 1147 regular season games & 98 playoff games. Won 50+ games 7 times. Was the last coach to win over 40 games in Minnesota.

Ehhh alright lol

Yep. Saunders isn't necessarily a bad coach or GM, but I'm still not seeing why he's being given all this power. So he made the playoffs a bunch of times (and basically lost in the 1st round all but once) with a prime KG. Congrats. Mr. Potato head made the conference finals and NBA finals with LeBron. I don't see very many people clamoring to give him a GM position, let alone head coach and GM. Again, Saunders isn't a moron/inept coach or GM, but if you're trying to sell me his track record as reason that he should have both, I'm not buying at all.

Whoa

Me and you agree on something lol

[Proven_Winner]

If Lebron wants someone from this team it's most likely the only guy he's friends with here. Taj.

[NecessaryEvil]

Cleveland thinks differently than you. They feel Waiters and Thompson make the Bulls stronger and they don't want to give the Bulls that. If you knew what player Cleveland wants along with Love and what they're willing to give up. You'd not only laugh at the Cavs but wonder if they can actually pull a Love deal off at all. Cleveland needs to step up or they might not get Love at all.

I'mma guess Dieng...

It's someone from the Bulls and way better than Dieng.

HA! I figured it would be a Minny player..

That's crazy.. they're pushing it now

Thx

[NecessaryEvil]

And there's absolutely no playmaking at the wing spot for us. But apparently that is something we should all quietly ignore.

Exactly..

Kirk Hinrich is the 2nd best playmaker on the wings for us. Kirk Hinrich...

And there's a very real chance Hinrich is playing SG for us down the stretch of playoff games. There's no chance however that we'll be playing Taj/Pau/Joakim all together down the stretch of playoff games. So again, I just find it hard to understand why we value a player and position who'll be on the bench at crunch time over a starting SG who will most certainly be out there at crunch time and needed to take pressure off Derrick. Just baffling.

This should be stickied on the front page of Real GM

[Polynice4Pippen]

You're not saying to ignore it, but you're not saying to address it either. Are you running for public office anytime soon?

I have said neither of those things. If you have assumed that because i am not all in for dealing Taj Gibson for Kevin Martin then that is your own issues or emotions with this topic, whilst overlooking the content of my posts.

Like I said, Kevin Martin (or whoever our SG is) will play more down the stretch of close games than Taj Gibson (or whoever our backup PF is) will. This is something Bulls fans need to understand. That's what happens when you bring in Pau Gasol and have Joakim Noah next to him. The Boozer era is over. Taj isn't going to monopolize the 4th quarter minutes anymore.

And Nikola Mirotic is being groomed to replace Pau when he's done. The writing is on the wall, Taj isn't our PF of the present or the future. Excellent asset and piece to a good team, but Taj will often be watching from the bench at the end of games this season while our lack of offensive wing play gets exposed once again by elite teams and defenses.

[ryan44]

Ehhh alright lol

Yep. Saunders isn't necessarily a bad coach or GM, but I'm still not seeing why he's being given all this power. So he made the playoffs a bunch of times (and basically lost in the 1st round all but once) with a prime KG. Congrats. Mr. Potato head made the conference finals and NBA finals with LeBron. I don't see very many people clamoring to give him a GM position, let alone head coach and GM. Again, Saunders isn't a moron/inept coach or GM, but if you're trying to sell me his track record as reason that he should have both, I'm not buying at all.

Whoa

Me and you agree on something lol

Somewhere, deep in the depths of the RealGM archives, there is another thread where we agreed on something else.

[kyrv]

And there's absolutely no playmaking at the wing spot for us. But apparently that is something we should all quietly ignore.

Just in case you missed it, here is what i said.

I am not saying to ignore it.

But please, carry on otherwise suggesting i said to ignore it...

You're not saying to ignore it, but you're not saying to address it either. Are you running for public office anytime soon?

P4P there is a lot of room in between ignoring it and obsessing over it as if it in and of itself spells doom.

[EastBayFJ]

The best way to deal with the Wolves , from the Cavs or Bulls perspective ( and the Warriors too for that matter ) , is to flip them the Larry Bird and wait until the trade deadline .

The Wolves leverage will crawl up its own ass and die

Honestly , until the All Star break - Kevin Love isn't going to matter a pinch of poo , to Chicago's , Cleveland's , or Golden State's position in the standings - they will both be within Top 3 in the East with what they already have at worst .

I reckon a package of :

- David Lee and Harrison Barnes gets would be sort of what an offer would look like from the Warriors

- Dion Waiters ,Tristian Thompson , Anthony Bennett + future picks would be what an offer might look like from the Wolves

- Taj Gibson , Mike Dunleavy , Tony Snell + Sacramento pick + 2015 1st might be what an offer would look like from the Wolves

But what would the point be for the Cavs to pony up if it was known that Love was only a half season rental and had no intention of committing long term without a longer committed term from Lebron James

Perhaps part of the issue as to why a deal hasn't been done already is because Camp Love have let it be known to the Cavs FO not to rely on a re-signing. And if this was the case then you DO NOT offer up Andrew Wiggins .

If it is Chicago or Golden State as to where he wants to be - you wait until the trade deadline , or , next summer in a Sign and Trade deal - but then you are competing with the Knicks who would could have the room to Max Melo and make a run at Rondo ( who I imagine Houston would also be competing for )

I just can't see Love as a Cav. I'm calling it now as 99% unlikely.

He's not going to sign 1 year deals to see what Lebron does - he needs to take his money now . 5 years of Max .

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Agree with the notion that we should look to trade Taj. To add to that, by all accounts Thibs is a fan of Doug, and I expect that to show pretty early on. Which means Dunleavy, who by all accounts has positive value and we would have no problem trading, will likely lose a bit of that value as the season progresses and his role diminishes. Package the two and get a serious upgrade, throw a pick or two in if you have to.

The only trouble is this: Taj may very well be the 2nd best big on the team next year. And if that is the case, it becomes dicey trading him. If Pau is declining and Mirotic is showing to be extremely raw, then we're in trouble. I think Pax and Gar might wait and make sure Mirotic is an NBA caliber player before getting rid of one of our bigs.

[RedBulls23]

Cleveland thinks differently than you. They feel Waiters and Thompson make the Bulls stronger and they don't want to give the Bulls that. If you knew what player Cleveland wants along with Love and what they're willing to give up. You'd not only laugh at the Cavs but wonder if they can actually pull a Love deal off at all. Cleveland needs to step up or they might not get Love at all.

I'mma guess Dieng...

It's someone from the Bulls and way better than Dieng.

Oh God...I bet they want Pau or Noah.

Cleveland and Lebron can go suck a dick if that's true.

[panthermark]

Like I said, Kevin Martin (or whoever our SG is) will play more down the stretch of close games than Taj Gibson (or whoever our backup PF is) will. This is something Bulls fans need to understand. That's what happens when you bring in Pau Gasol and have Joakim Noah next to him. The Boozer era is over. Taj isn't going to monopolize the 4th quarter minutes anymore.

And Nikola Mirotic is being groomed to replace Pau when he's done. The writing is on the wall, Taj isn't our PF of the present or the future. Excellent asset and piece to a good team, but Taj will often be watching from the bench at the end of games this season while our lack of offensive wing play gets exposed once again by elite teams and defenses.

I understand (and to an extent, agree) with what you are saying. But "if" the Cavs get Love, we are going to need Taj.

While not a huge Martin fan, I much rather move MDJ/Snell for Martin and keep Taj (if the Cavs are getting him). Although my first choice is still for US to get Love and Martin.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Just in case you missed it, here is what i said.



But please, carry on otherwise suggesting i said to ignore it...

You're not saying to ignore it, but you're not saying to address it either. Are you running for public office anytime soon?

P4P there is a lot of room in between ignoring it and obsessing over it as if it in and of itself spells doom.

There's also a lot of room between making it a genuine priority and paying lip service to it. People really don't think our wing play is a problem. As is, they'll be in for yet another rude awakening come playoff time. And then they'll probably just blame Derrick.

[Proven_Winner]

You're not saying to ignore it, but you're not saying to address it either. Are you running for public office anytime soon?

I have said neither of those things. If you have assumed that because i am not all in for dealing Taj Gibson for Kevin Martin then that is your own issues or emotions with this topic, whilst overlooking the content of my posts.

Like I said, Kevin Martin (or whoever our SG is) will play more down the stretch of close games than Taj Gibson (or whoever our backup PF is) will. This is something Bulls fans need to understand. That's what happens when you bring in Pau Gasol and have Joakim Noah next to him. The Boozer era is over. Taj isn't going to monopolize the 4th quarter minutes anymore.

And Nikola Mirotic is being groomed to replace Pau when he's done. The writing is on the wall, Taj isn't our PF of the present or the future. Excellent asset and piece to a good team, but Taj will often be watching from the bench at the end of games this season while our lack of offensive wing play gets exposed once again by elite teams and defenses.

We actually don't know that. Thibs even said he doesn't know who's starting or finishing. Also how do we know the FO doesn't plan to have him now or in the future? All we're going off is reports that say that, but it really hasn't been confirmed/ We gave Taj a nice contract even when we knew Nikola was coming and the FO doesn''t think like us. They know you want/need guys like Taj because they give you the edge in alot of matchups and that is very valuable. Basically we can't assume anything about Taj other than he's here now and is a Bull.

[NecessaryEvil]

He's not going to sign 1 year deals to see what Lebron does - he needs to take his money now . 5 years of Max .

Lebron James will never leave the cavaliers again. He wants to maximize off of the TV deal. He said in his letter that he knows they wouldn't win immediately and that his patience would be tested. Doesn't sound like a guy that's planning on leaving home again after emphatically stating I'M COMING HOME.

Love is going to the Cavs unless they mess it up themselves.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Like I said, Kevin Martin (or whoever our SG is) will play more down the stretch of close games than Taj Gibson (or whoever our backup PF is) will. This is something Bulls fans need to understand. That's what happens when you bring in Pau Gasol and have Joakim Noah next to him. The Boozer era is over. Taj isn't going to monopolize the 4th quarter minutes anymore.

And Nikola Mirotic is being groomed to replace Pau when he's done. The writing is on the wall, Taj isn't our PF of the present or the future. Excellent asset and piece to a good team, but Taj will often be watching from the bench at the end of games this season while our lack of offensive wing play gets exposed once again by elite teams and defenses.

I understand (and to an extent, agree) with what you are saying. But "if" the Cavs get Love, we are going to need Taj.

While not a huge Martin fan, I much rather move MDJ/Snell for Martin and keep Taj (if the Cavs are getting him). Although my first choice is still for US to get Love and Martin.

If Taj plays down the stretch against Love defensively, then Pau sits. And if our big free agent signing is on the bench at the end of games like Boozer then was it really that great of a signing? Besides, Joakim will be the one guarding Love, and he'll do just fine.

[Vintage]

Have GarPax ever made a trade where they got the best player back?

In fact, I think the last time the Bulls did was back when they traded for Rose, right?

[RedBulls23]

I'm one of the posters that feel like we need an upgrade on the wing, but now that I think about it more I'm very open to seeing what we have before making any moves.

There are a couple things the FO needs to see before they can really make an impact move. 3 of them in not particular order:

1). What is DRoses status and how he plays
2). What do the Bulls have in Butler/Snell/McDermott
3). What do they have in Mirotic

Now I could ignore those 3 things if we are talking about trading for Love, but the more I think about trading for a wing, I would like to see how the above 3 things pan out.

Whether true or not, and likely the latter, i am going to take credit for you holding this view and will assume my constant nonsense and bable has lead you to this point.

I completely agree with everything you noted here.

If Butler & McDermott can give us 13 PPG, through multiple avenues, whilst Snell gives us 9-10 PPG with range from 3s and quality defense, suddenly, the wing issue is not as bad as it is now.

However, maybe it is bad. Maybe Butler proves he is not a reliable 2 way player. Perhaps Snell & McDermott contribute little.

Maybe Rose is never the same again and we've got the new Penny Hardaway on our hands that is earning the super max whilst providing play that wouldn't even justify half of that.

The point is simple, as you noted. We have many questions on this team that remain unanswered. Time will tell us all.

Haha...actually I had this thought process before, but thought that Kmart would be a good option to go after.

But I've kind of flipped back to my original plan. For Love, all 3 of my points go out the window, but it doesn't seem like we are going to get him.

One of the reasons I threw Rose in there is because like you said what if he is the new Penny, then maybe the FO may look to trade for a PG like Bledsoe instead.

There are just too many variables involved to just jump to a non Love related move at this point.