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Vintage wrote:Have GarPax ever made a trade where they got the best player back?
In fact, I think the last time the Bulls did was back when they traded for Rose, right?
Proven_Winner wrote:Polynice4Pippen wrote:KingCuban wrote:
I have said neither of those things. If you have assumed that because i am not all in for dealing Taj Gibson for Kevin Martin then that is your own issues or emotions with this topic, whilst overlooking the content of my posts.
Like I said, Kevin Martin (or whoever our SG is) will play more down the stretch of close games than Taj Gibson (or whoever our backup PF is) will. This is something Bulls fans need to understand. That's what happens when you bring in Pau Gasol and have Joakim Noah next to him. The Boozer era is over. Taj isn't going to monopolize the 4th quarter minutes anymore.
And Nikola Mirotic is being groomed to replace Pau when he's done. The writing is on the wall, Taj isn't our PF of the present or the future. Excellent asset and piece to a good team, but Taj will often be watching from the bench at the end of games this season while our lack of offensive wing play gets exposed once again by elite teams and defenses.
We actually don't know that. Thibs even said he doesn't know who's starting or finishing. Also how do we know the FO doesn't plan to have him now or in the future? All we're going off is reports that say that, but it really hasn't been confirmed/ We gave Taj a nice contract even when we knew Nikola was coming and the FO doesn''t think like us. They know you want/need guys like Taj because they give you the edge in alot of matchups and that is very valuable. Basically we can't assume anything about Taj other than he's here now and is a Bull.
Polynice4Pippen wrote:
If Taj plays down the stretch against Love defensively, then Pau sits. And if our big free agent signing is on the bench at the end of games like Boozer then was it really that great of a signing? Besides, Joakim will be the one guarding Love, and he'll do just fine.
Proven_Winner wrote:Polynice4Pippen wrote:KingCuban wrote:
I have said neither of those things. If you have assumed that because i am not all in for dealing Taj Gibson for Kevin Martin then that is your own issues or emotions with this topic, whilst overlooking the content of my posts.
Like I said, Kevin Martin (or whoever our SG is) will play more down the stretch of close games than Taj Gibson (or whoever our backup PF is) will. This is something Bulls fans need to understand. That's what happens when you bring in Pau Gasol and have Joakim Noah next to him. The Boozer era is over. Taj isn't going to monopolize the 4th quarter minutes anymore.
And Nikola Mirotic is being groomed to replace Pau when he's done. The writing is on the wall, Taj isn't our PF of the present or the future. Excellent asset and piece to a good team, but Taj will often be watching from the bench at the end of games this season while our lack of offensive wing play gets exposed once again by elite teams and defenses.
We actually don't know that. Thibs even said he doesn't know who's starting or finishing. Also how do we know the FO doesn't plan to have him now or in the future? All we're going off is reports that say that, but it really hasn't been confirmed/ We gave Taj a nice contract even when we knew Nikola was coming and the FO doesn''t think like us. They know you want/need guys like Taj because they give you the edge in alot of matchups and that is very valuable. Basically we can't assume anything about Taj other than he's here now and is a Bull.
Vintage wrote:Have GarPax ever made a trade where they got the best player back?
In fact, I think the last time the Bulls did was back when they traded for Rose, right?
Red-Bulls83 wrote:Vintage wrote:Have GarPax ever made a trade where they got the best player back?
In fact, I think the last time the Bulls did was back when they traded for Rose, right?
Jalen Rose?
That wasn't Pax, it was Krause and I would say that Brad Miller and Ron Artest whom we gave up were better than Jalen.
Polynice4Pippen wrote:Red-Bulls83 wrote:Vintage wrote:Have GarPax ever made a trade where they got the best player back?
In fact, I think the last time the Bulls did was back when they traded for Rose, right?
Jalen Rose?
That wasn't Pax, it was Krause and I would say that Brad Miller and Ron Artest whom we gave up were better than Jalen.
Jalen was better at the time, but Artest was on his way to something very solid and ultimately became better. Krause thought Jalen would be enough to put us over the top. We weren't even close to being ready to be a playoff team when that deal was made. No idea what Krause was thinking, other than he was tired of watching us struggle to score.
panthermark wrote:Polynice4Pippen wrote:
If Taj plays down the stretch against Love defensively, then Pau sits. And if our big free agent signing is on the bench at the end of games like Boozer then was it really that great of a signing? Besides, Joakim will be the one guarding Love, and he'll do just fine.
I wasn't all that impressed with our big free agent signing....not by himself. The problem simply isn't who guards Love. It is the mis-matches and lanes that he creates.
Noah is the teams best big defender and best rebounder. Love pulls him 20 feet from basket while Irving and Bron are playing off each other or running 1/5 or 3/5 pick and rolls with AV.
NecessaryEvil wrote:Proven_Winner wrote:Polynice4Pippen wrote:
Like I said, Kevin Martin (or whoever our SG is) will play more down the stretch of close games than Taj Gibson (or whoever our backup PF is) will. This is something Bulls fans need to understand. That's what happens when you bring in Pau Gasol and have Joakim Noah next to him. The Boozer era is over. Taj isn't going to monopolize the 4th quarter minutes anymore.
And Nikola Mirotic is being groomed to replace Pau when he's done. The writing is on the wall, Taj isn't our PF of the present or the future. Excellent asset and piece to a good team, but Taj will often be watching from the bench at the end of games this season while our lack of offensive wing play gets exposed once again by elite teams and defenses.
We actually don't know that. Thibs even said he doesn't know who's starting or finishing. Also how do we know the FO doesn't plan to have him now or in the future? All we're going off is reports that say that, but it really hasn't been confirmed/ We gave Taj a nice contract even when we knew Nikola was coming and the FO doesn''t think like us. They know you want/need guys like Taj because they give you the edge in alot of matchups and that is very valuable. Basically we can't assume anything about Taj other than he's here now and is a Bull.
Taj isn't closing a basketball game over Gasol/Noah unless they're either hurt or it's a blow-out. Gasol didn't leave LA and the promise of more riches to sit on a bench for Taj friggin Gibson.
Thibs can say that for PR all he wants. It's not happening. Taj got that decent contract because it is a highly tradeable one in the likely hood that he is moved.
Gasol & Mirotic have that locked. The best thing for the Bulls to do would be to move Taj somewhere that would give him the likeliness to start and finish. That would be admirable. Just a year ago we couldn't wait til he got moved (after the deal) then he bounces back in a decent season WITHOUT Deng & Rose, now all of a sudden he's just untradeable. No way, he's not gonna make it and I like Gibson alot but we have other pressing needs on this team.
Polynice4Pippen wrote:Proven_Winner wrote:Polynice4Pippen wrote:
Like I said, Kevin Martin (or whoever our SG is) will play more down the stretch of close games than Taj Gibson (or whoever our backup PF is) will. This is something Bulls fans need to understand. That's what happens when you bring in Pau Gasol and have Joakim Noah next to him. The Boozer era is over. Taj isn't going to monopolize the 4th quarter minutes anymore.
And Nikola Mirotic is being groomed to replace Pau when he's done. The writing is on the wall, Taj isn't our PF of the present or the future. Excellent asset and piece to a good team, but Taj will often be watching from the bench at the end of games this season while our lack of offensive wing play gets exposed once again by elite teams and defenses.
We actually don't know that. Thibs even said he doesn't know who's starting or finishing. Also how do we know the FO doesn't plan to have him now or in the future? All we're going off is reports that say that, but it really hasn't been confirmed/ We gave Taj a nice contract even when we knew Nikola was coming and the FO doesn''t think like us. They know you want/need guys like Taj because they give you the edge in alot of matchups and that is very valuable. Basically we can't assume anything about Taj other than he's here now and is a Bull.
So who sits at the end of games; Taj or Pau? It's a great dilemma for a coach to have, true. At best Taj closes out half the games, maybe a little more. Kevin Martin would close out 99% of the games at SG.
NecessaryEvil wrote:EastBayFJ wrote:He's not going to sign 1 year deals to see what Lebron does - he needs to take his money now . 5 years of Max .
Lebron James will never leave the cavaliers again. He wants to maximize off of the TV deal. He said in his letter that he knows they wouldn't win immediately and that his patience would be tested. Doesn't sound like a guy that's planning on leaving home again after emphatically stating I'M COMING HOME.
Love is going to the Cavs unless they mess it up themselves.
EastBayFJ wrote:NecessaryEvil wrote:EastBayFJ wrote:He's not going to sign 1 year deals to see what Lebron does - he needs to take his money now . 5 years of Max .
Lebron James will never leave the cavaliers again. He wants to maximize off of the TV deal. He said in his letter that he knows they wouldn't win immediately and that his patience would be tested. Doesn't sound like a guy that's planning on leaving home again after emphatically stating I'M COMING HOME.
Love is going to the Cavs unless they mess it up themselves.
If that's the case then Wiggins is included .
If not - he's not
Does Love or LMA or any other expiring free agent next summer sign short because of the TV deal ?
And if this is a compelling reason then why didn't Melo sign short ?
You could be right . Its just that I don't think you are - and until its absolutely definitive and he's inked long - if I'm Camp Love I don't sign long in Cleveland
Polynice4Pippen wrote:Red-Bulls83 wrote:Vintage wrote:Have GarPax ever made a trade where they got the best player back?
In fact, I think the last time the Bulls did was back when they traded for Rose, right?
Jalen Rose?
That wasn't Pax, it was Krause and I would say that Brad Miller and Ron Artest whom we gave up were better than Jalen.
Jalen was better at the time, but Artest was on his way to something very solid and ultimately became better. Krause thought Jalen would be enough to put us over the top. We weren't even close to being ready to be a playoff team when that deal was made. No idea what Krause was thinking, other than he was tired of watching us struggle to score.
I think we could match up to them. When Love is on the floor he'll have Noah or Gibson chasing him around with Gasol or Noah at the rim. I don't think he's a good defender and that can be exploited. I know Kyrie isn't a good defender. The 1/4 pick and roll is something we can use to exploit them. Personally, I think Love is overrated in the same way Melo is. Big time scorer, sub par defender. We'll have to wait and see though. Time will tell.panthermark wrote:wesleybullsfan wrote:Love better learn to defend the pick and roll. We can put Gibson and Gasol out there and run that play all day. Have fun! Without Wiggins to help double team Rose they're going to have all kinds of problems.ralphisBullsFan wrote:it will be fun to watch noah and Gibson beat love down mentally....they put love on gasol or gibson he gets posted up and scored on...they put him on noah then noah plays the high post and takes love away from the boards....Gibson will have a brake out season...he get getting better and better every season glad we are not losing him...
LOL...
I did your pure homer-ism....but get real.
The Cavs would put Love on either Noah or Taj.
If Taj is on the court (assuming he is still here), it means one of Noah or Gasol are not.
Taj is a pretty solid player, but I'm not sure he is the "go to" guy over over other options that would probably be on the court. I don't know if he is a high enough volume scorer to simply take Love to school vs what Love could do on the other end.
And the idea of taking Love away from the boards by putting Noah at the high post is beyond laughable. If that is taking Love away from the boards, what happens on the OTHER end when Love as at the three point line? Which means you Noah and Taj (if he is still here) are not only pulled away from the boards, but are pulled away as help defenders.
Taj is a better match-up against Love. But the funny thing is that a lot of people want to trade Taj in a deal that does not get Love.
My take is still give the house for Love. Keep him away from Cleveland.
Snell or MDJ + McD + Mirotic + Taj + picks for Martin and Love
or
MDJ + Snell for Martin and some other asset.....maybe.
If Cleveland gets Love, Taj MUST be here because a Noah/Gasol vs Love/AV is a poor match-up for us when you consider roster builds.
If we don't get Love, AND we lose Taj....we are not going to be able to outscore them nor turtle ball them.
You can go through all the different line-ups you want, there top end talent is simply better. With Love they would be a 3&D SG away from a dynasty type team. If they somehow keep Waiters, their defense will be limited, but their offense would be nearly unstoppable.
Polynice4Pippen wrote:Proven_Winner wrote:Polynice4Pippen wrote:
Like I said, Kevin Martin (or whoever our SG is) will play more down the stretch of close games than Taj Gibson (or whoever our backup PF is) will. This is something Bulls fans need to understand. That's what happens when you bring in Pau Gasol and have Joakim Noah next to him. The Boozer era is over. Taj isn't going to monopolize the 4th quarter minutes anymore.
And Nikola Mirotic is being groomed to replace Pau when he's done. The writing is on the wall, Taj isn't our PF of the present or the future. Excellent asset and piece to a good team, but Taj will often be watching from the bench at the end of games this season while our lack of offensive wing play gets exposed once again by elite teams and defenses.
We actually don't know that. Thibs even said he doesn't know who's starting or finishing. Also how do we know the FO doesn't plan to have him now or in the future? All we're going off is reports that say that, but it really hasn't been confirmed/ We gave Taj a nice contract even when we knew Nikola was coming and the FO doesn''t think like us. They know you want/need guys like Taj because they give you the edge in alot of matchups and that is very valuable. Basically we can't assume anything about Taj other than he's here now and is a Bull.
So who sits at the end of games; Taj or Pau? It's a great dilemma for a coach to have, true. At best Taj closes out half the games, maybe a little more. Kevin Martin would close out 99% of the games at SG.
Polynice4Pippen wrote:panthermark wrote:Polynice4Pippen wrote:
If Taj plays down the stretch against Love defensively, then Pau sits. And if our big free agent signing is on the bench at the end of games like Boozer then was it really that great of a signing? Besides, Joakim will be the one guarding Love, and he'll do just fine.
I wasn't all that impressed with our big free agent signing....not by himself. The problem simply isn't who guards Love. It is the mis-matches and lanes that he creates.
Noah is the teams best big defender and best rebounder. Love pulls him 20 feet from basket while Irving and Bron are playing off each other or running 1/5 or 3/5 pick and rolls with AV.
And what about the problems we'll have with generating offense at the end of games with only one perimeter guy who can create their own offense and provide volume scoring? We can talk all the defense we want, but we're not a championship team until we upgrade that position, simple as that.
Scottie Pippen's response to whom he would pick for his running mate, Michael or LeBron: "That's a dumbass question. I've never done anything with LeBron. I wouldn't take LeBron to the movies."
NecessaryEvil wrote:EastBayFJ wrote:He's not going to sign 1 year deals to see what Lebron does - he needs to take his money now . 5 years of Max .
Lebron James will never leave the cavaliers again. He wants to maximize off of the TV deal. He said in his letter that he knows they wouldn't win immediately and that his patience would be tested. Doesn't sound like a guy that's planning on leaving home again after emphatically stating I'M COMING HOME.
Love is going to the Cavs unless they mess it up themselves.
Bill Walton wrote: Keep the music playing.
Polynice4Pippen wrote:Proven_Winner wrote:Polynice4Pippen wrote:
Like I said, Kevin Martin (or whoever our SG is) will play more down the stretch of close games than Taj Gibson (or whoever our backup PF is) will. This is something Bulls fans need to understand. That's what happens when you bring in Pau Gasol and have Joakim Noah next to him. The Boozer era is over. Taj isn't going to monopolize the 4th quarter minutes anymore.
And Nikola Mirotic is being groomed to replace Pau when he's done. The writing is on the wall, Taj isn't our PF of the present or the future. Excellent asset and piece to a good team, but Taj will often be watching from the bench at the end of games this season while our lack of offensive wing play gets exposed once again by elite teams and defenses.
We actually don't know that. Thibs even said he doesn't know who's starting or finishing. Also how do we know the FO doesn't plan to have him now or in the future? All we're going off is reports that say that, but it really hasn't been confirmed/ We gave Taj a nice contract even when we knew Nikola was coming and the FO doesn''t think like us. They know you want/need guys like Taj because they give you the edge in alot of matchups and that is very valuable. Basically we can't assume anything about Taj other than he's here now and is a Bull.
So who sits at the end of games; Taj or Pau? It's a great dilemma for a coach to have, true. At best Taj closes out half the games, maybe a little more. Kevin Martin would close out 99% of the games at SG.
Bill Walton wrote: Keep the music playing.
Vintage wrote:Have GarPax ever made a trade where they got the best player back?
In fact, I think the last time the Bulls did was back when they traded for Rose, right?
AKfanatic wrote:Polynice4Pippen wrote:Proven_Winner wrote:
We actually don't know that. Thibs even said he doesn't know who's starting or finishing. Also how do we know the FO doesn't plan to have him now or in the future? All we're going off is reports that say that, but it really hasn't been confirmed/ We gave Taj a nice contract even when we knew Nikola was coming and the FO doesn''t think like us. They know you want/need guys like Taj because they give you the edge in alot of matchups and that is very valuable. Basically we can't assume anything about Taj other than he's here now and is a Bull.
So who sits at the end of games; Taj or Pau? It's a great dilemma for a coach to have, true. At best Taj closes out half the games, maybe a little more. Kevin Martin would close out 99% of the games at SG.
Would he really? Zero chance that Thibs closes out games with Rose (if healthy), Butler, and Hinrich? Or butler/dunleavy? maybe snell shows improved D and Thibs closes games with Snell/Butler. Choices, choices, choices... We as fans may prefer specific players or combinations of players at the end of games, Thibs could care less what we prefer. One thing we do know, given the choice to close a game with D or O, Thibs more likely than not will go with D.