Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[Ralphb07]

It's awesome when my source breaks a story days before Stein. Philadelphia and Chicago are the two possible teams in a 3 way and both want Waiters. Problem with Philly is they aren't willing to give up picks in a deal.

Ralph - Is Chicago trying to acquire Love or just be the 3rd team?

Both. The Bulls either want Love or make sure Cleveland gives up as much as possible.

Minny IMO wants Gibson and Wiggins which is why I think Cleveland and Love is more likely.

The Bulls would swap Gibson for Waiters and Thompson in a heart beat. Also willing to take on Martin and sending out others, picks to make it work. Cleveland knows Bennett sucks and is trying to push him instead

[DRoseCantStop]

It's awesome when my source breaks a story days before Stein. Philadelphia and Chicago are the two possible teams in a 3 way and both want Waiters. Problem with Philly is they aren't willing to give up picks in a deal.

Ralph - Is Chicago trying to acquire Love or just be the 3rd team?

Both. The Bulls either want Love or make sure Cleveland gives up as much as possible.

Minny IMO wants Gibson and Wiggins which is why I think Cleveland and Love is more likely.

The Bulls would swap Gibson for Waiters and Thompson in a heart beat. Also willing to take on Martin and sending out others, picks to make it work. Cleveland knows Bennett sucks and is trying to push him instead

Thank you Based Ralph

[Chi town]

CLE won't win the East if they have to give up Waiters, Thompson, and Wiggins.

Tetlak, good point on Waiters potentially replacing Butler. I don't think it happens though. I think Butler gets extended and stays as our Lebron stopper.

Noah is high on Snell "I think we've had a lot of very solid additions," he said. "I think Tony Snell had a very good summer league. He's somebody who I expect to contribute for us, and the rookie as well, McDermott.
http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/ ... -cavaliers

I'm not high on Thompson due to his contract and his inability to play C. I like Waiters more than MDJ but not at the price of Gibson.

[Rerisen]

CF and Re, the two of you have changed my mind. I was one of the few people supporting a move for this guy, but you're right... the character concerns are much larger with Waiters and the skill and upside is way smaller. Would the two of you be against a deal where we flip Taj for Tristan Thompson and Waiters, then flip Waiters + Dunleavy for a good SG (JJ Reddick, Jamal Crawford, Gerald Green, or even Kevin Martin)?

A line up of
Noah / TT
Gasol / Mirotic
Butler / McBuckets
Reddick / Snell
Rose / Brooks

We consolidate talent, turning Taj into a genuine playmaking SG, while adding Tristan to replace Taj.

Well we could get Martin immediately in the deal probably without the flip, just not sure on that one yet though.

Redick or Crawford are more appealing but I don't see Clips giving them up for unproven Waiters, they are also trying to win now, and getting JJ cost them Eric Bledsoe to acquire.

[FecesOfDeath]

The Bulls used the offseason to bring in players to stretch the floor. Their future PF is also a stretch PF. I don't think it's a stretch to believe Kevin Love would do what Kevin Love DOES in Chicago, stretch the floor. After all, our PG needs the floor stretched lol.

The guy is grabbing 10 + rebounds regardless.

The problem is that they'd be giving up the other elite rim-protector in Taj -- who is still their future PF along with Nikola -- and protecting the rim is something that Love has been unable to do his entire career.

In addition, the problem with stretching the floor with the PF means that the SF has to also rebound like a PF, or else second chance points -- a Thibs staple -- will fall solely to Jo's responsibility.

Also, three point shots are double-edged swords; aside from the corner three, most other missed three point shots are highly vulnerable to easy transition baskets for the opposing team. If you look at Love's offensive rebounding percentage, it's been decline throughout his entire career and is inversely proportional to the number of three point shots he's attempted. What one gains in Love spreading one loses in offensive rebounding ability and transition defense.

[Jordan45822]

@DarrenWolfson: Yes, Philly has a "For Sale" sign on its cap space. But the cost is at least one 1st rd pick. ... They won't just giveaway Thad. #twolves

[Seccci]

yeah that waiters, thomson for taj part is utter garbage. none those players improve depth or balance roster what so ever, just clog it even more with players who need to play minutes to deserve or justify their draft position, price tag and they are not better than guys before them- butler is better than waiters and pau, noah are better than thompson.

with that trade, u just get worse, and thats the end of it.

martin is intriguing, so i would just deal straight with them wolves, and dont give a ish about cavaliers. why help lebron or our division rival? screw them, let them bleed talent and picks if lebron wants k-love so much. why should bulls pay, snell and picks for that priviledge hahaaaaa, that is just stupid...

i hope its made up staff by ralph just from what he heard and he just added to it. i hope u get better man, but just because u have too much time on laptop dont have to get people scared and depressed by such horrible trade ideas

[ryannik09]

It's awesome when my source breaks a story days before Stein. Philadelphia and Chicago are the two possible teams in a 3 way and both want Waiters. Problem with Philly is they aren't willing to give up picks in a deal.

Ralph - Is Chicago trying to acquire Love or just be the 3rd team?

Both. The Bulls either want Love or make sure Cleveland gives up as much as possible.

Minny IMO wants Gibson and Wiggins which is why I think Cleveland and Love is more likely.

The Bulls would swap Gibson for Waiters and Thompson in a heart beat. Also willing to take on Martin and sending out others, picks to make it work. Cleveland knows Bennett sucks and is trying to push him instead

Ralph, thanks for the update, I really like this deal from the Bulls perspective.

Hope you are feeling better, and continuing to get stronger everyday.

[Ralphb07]

@DarrenWolfson: Yes, Philly has a "For Sale" sign on its cap space. But the cost is at least one 1st rd pick. ... They won't just giveaway Thad. #twolves

What I said before... the main thing is Philly will swap Thad for Bennett and Waiters but they want picks to take on Martin. I'm shocked that Cleveland is trying to get Love but is so reluctant to put forth a solid offer

[Jcool0]

The Bulls used the offseason to bring in players to stretch the floor. Their future PF is also a stretch PF. I don't think it's a stretch to believe Kevin Love would do what Kevin Love DOES in Chicago, stretch the floor. After all, our PG needs the floor stretched lol.

The guy is grabbing 10 + rebounds regardless.

The problem is that they'd be giving up the other elite rim-protector in Taj -- who is still their future PF along with Nikola -- and protecting the rim is something that Love has been unable to do his entire career.

In addition, the problem with stretching the floor with the PF means that the SF has to also rebound like a PF, or else second chance points -- a Thibs staple -- will fall solely to Jo's responsibility.

Also, three point shots are double-edged swords; aside from the corner three, most other missed three point shots are highly vulnerable to easy transition baskets for the opposing team. If you look at Love's offensive rebounding percentage, it's been decline throughout his entire career and is inversely proportional to the number of three point shots he's attempted. What one gains in Love spreading one loses in offensive rebounding ability and transition defense.

Actually the only real drop off was last year. He was #1 in the NBA in offensive rebounds per game from 2010-2012. 2012-2013 hard to judge since he only played in 18 games, but it was only down 0.5 per game.

[Ralphb07]

yeah that waiters, thomson for taj part is utter garbage. none those players improve depth or balance roster what so ever, just clog it even more with players who need to play minutes to deserve or justify their draft position, price tag and they are not better than guys before them- butler is better than waiters and pau, noah are better than thompson.

with that trade, u just get worse, and thats the end of it.

martin is intriguing, so i would just deal straight with them wolves, and dont give a ish about cavaliers. why help lebron or our division rival? screw them, let them bleed talent and picks if lebron wants k-love so much. why should bulls pay, snell and picks for that priviledge hahaaaaa, that is just stupid...



i hope its made up staff by ralph just from what he heard and he just added to it. i hope u get better man, but just because u have too much time on laptop dont have to get people scared and depressed by such horrible trade ideas

No made up and to be quite honest I'm shocked by the negative views on both Waiters and Thompson. To me this seems like Homer talk on this page.

Bottom line is its Cleveland who doesn't want to send those guys to Chicago helping the Bulls out. I find all these post of late comical since I know the real story.

[panthermark]

Both. The Bulls either want Love or make sure Cleveland gives up as much as possible.

Minny IMO wants Gibson and Wiggins which is why I think Cleveland and Love is more likely.

The Bulls would swap Gibson for Waiters and Thompson in a heart beat. Also willing to take on Martin and sending out others, picks to make it work. Cleveland knows Bennett sucks and is trying to push him instead

I like the first half of that...
Go after Love, or at least make the price crazy high for Cleveland.

I dislike the 2nd half of that.... Waiters, Thompson and Martin for Gibson, (I'm assuming MDJ for salary) AND picks?

I don't get the those three at all. Thompson will be a free agent (like Butler) at the end of THIS season. You gotta pay him to stay...and he would be the 3rd big, maybe the 4th big depending on Mitoric.

Waiters has a ton of natural talent, but is a headcase...and in that trade, he and Martin have to split minutes at SG as there are no other minutes anywhere else. Butler is up for extension, but you can't let him walk because he is by far our best wing defender in a division that has Bron and George.

And in that deal, we still don't have a true #1 (or even #2) scoring option outside of our PG who is coming back from 2 years worth of injuries. Who is the #2 scorer? 34 year old Gasol? Noah? Waiters? Martin? Buter? McD? We can't even get half those guys into the starting line-up.

[Jcool0]

yeah that waiters, thomson for taj part is utter garbage. none those players improve depth or balance roster what so ever, just clog it even more with players who need to play minutes to deserve or justify their draft position, price tag and they are not better than guys before them- butler is better than waiters and pau, noah are better than thompson.

with that trade, u just get worse, and thats the end of it.

martin is intriguing, so i would just deal straight with them wolves, and dont give a ish about cavaliers. why help lebron or our division rival? screw them, let them bleed talent and picks if lebron wants k-love so much. why should bulls pay, snell and picks for that priviledge hahaaaaa, that is just stupid...



i hope its made up staff by ralph just from what he heard and he just added to it. i hope u get better man, but just because u have too much time on laptop dont have to get people scared and depressed by such horrible trade ideas

No made up and to be quite honest I'm shocked by the negative views on both Waiters and Thompson. To me this seems like Homer talk on this page.

Bottom line is its Cleveland who doesn't want to send those guys to Chicago helping the Bulls out. I find all these post of late comical since I know the real story.

I would trade Taj and MDJ for Waiters, Thompson and Martin. Have the best overall roster in the NBA, the best chance to win this year and worry about next year next year.

[Seccci]

well with respect to you ralph. i dont know whats comical in not wanting to send taj for waiters 50ts% ,under 15per ( average player) "i want to be best player in the game" type of guy who will want to be payed in a year or amd thompson who is what? 15 PER(average), 11 points, 8 reb guy? thats what mirotic is projected to be with 3 point shooting, so idk what upgrade is that. he is also in NBA 3 years now, with no noticeable, eye opening improvement at all.

and its not like these guys are rookies with tons of potential. they are both more than years in NBA already and havent proven nothing. they havent done anything in playoffs either. taj did.

so what is comical is actually u and your attitude towards people responding with horror to these news.

if bulls deal straight with wolves for martin, i have no issue with. if they feel he is their target, go forth.

i insist on my view that based on what they did so far, both waiters and thompson are worse players than what bulls already have on roster, so they are no help what so ever. just garbage. my stance is actually backed by stats, so idk what comical on that

[panthermark]

No made up and to be quite honest I'm shocked by the negative views on both Waiters and Thompson. To me this seems like Homer talk on this page.

Bottom line is its Cleveland who doesn't want to send those guys to Chicago helping the Bulls out. I find all these post of late comical since I know the real story.

I've defended Waiters in the past, and he would scare me to death as a 4th option on the Cavs roster (behind Bron, Love, and Ivring). But I'm not all that crazy about him on this roster as our possible 2nd option behind Rose. He would make a great 6th man, but it appears he does not want that role.

[EastBayFJ]

It's awesome when my source breaks a story days before Stein. Philadelphia and Chicago are the two possible teams in a 3 way and both want Waiters. Problem with Philly is they aren't willing to give up picks in a deal.

Sixers shouldn't have to give up picks for a Waiters-Thompson/Young swap in my opinion.

Yeah . Really. Add Wroten into the deal and call it a day

[Ralphb07]

well with respect to you ralph. i dont know whats comical in not wanting to send taj for waiters 50ts% ,under 15per ( average player) "i want to be best player in the game" type of guy who will want to be payed in a year or amd thompson who is what? 15 PER(average), 11 points, 8 reb guy? thats what mirotic is projected to be with 3 point shooting, so idk what upgrade is that. he is also in NBA 3 years now, with no noticeable, eye opening improvement at all.

and its not like these guys are rookies with tons of potential. they are both more than years in NBA already and havent proven nothing. they havent done anything in playoffs either. taj did.

so what is comical is actually u and your attitude towards people responding with horror to these news.

if bulls deal straight with wolves for martin, i have no issue with. if they feel he is their target, go forth.

i insist on my view that based on what they did so far, both waiters and thompson are worse players than what bulls already have on roster, so they are no help what so ever. just garbage. my stance is actually backed by stats, so idk what comical on that

The beloved Taj Gibson is a career 9pts, 6rebs, 15per and 51% ts. So looking at the stats you put above, thanks btw, made my work easier. Yes I sit back and laugh at what people expect for Taj..

news flash guys the Bulls went out and spent over 12 mil, all our money on Taj s position.

[FecesOfDeath]

The Bulls used the offseason to bring in players to stretch the floor. Their future PF is also a stretch PF. I don't think it's a stretch to believe Kevin Love would do what Kevin Love DOES in Chicago, stretch the floor. After all, our PG needs the floor stretched lol.

The guy is grabbing 10 + rebounds regardless.

The problem is that they'd be giving up the other elite rim-protector in Taj -- who is still their future PF along with Nikola -- and protecting the rim is something that Love has been unable to do his entire career.

In addition, the problem with stretching the floor with the PF means that the SF has to also rebound like a PF, or else second chance points -- a Thibs staple -- will fall solely to Jo's responsibility.

Also, three point shots are double-edged swords; aside from the corner three, most other missed three point shots are highly vulnerable to easy transition baskets for the opposing team. If you look at Love's offensive rebounding percentage, it's been decline throughout his entire career and is inversely proportional to the number of three point shots he's attempted. What one gains in Love spreading one loses in offensive rebounding ability and transition defense.

Actually the only real drop off was last year. He was #1 in the NBA in offensive rebounds per game from 2010-2012. 2012-2013 hard to judge since he only played in 18 games, but it was only down 0.5 per game.

Didn't I say his offensive rebounding percentage is inversely proportionate to his three point attempts? In plain speak, as his three point attempts increased, his offensive rebounding decreased. The reason his "only real drop off was last year" was because his three point attempt ratio ballooned to 35.5%. However, "drop off" or no "drop off", his offensive rebounding percentage has dropped every season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html#advanced::none

[panthermark]

I would trade Taj and MDJ for Waiters, Thompson and Martin. Have the best overall roster in the NBA, the best chance to win this year and worry about next year next year.

You can only play 5 at a time...
That is one of the main problems with that trade.

Being that deep borders on useless because you have guys that won't ever see the court....and there is a shelf life to NBA contracts.

If your starting line up is Rose/Martin/Butler/Noah/Gasol.

I'm going to "guess" that we don't have to give away Taj to get that starting line-up if MDJ and Snell are used.
The only difference beteen the back-ups is that you have Waiters and Thomas over Taj. The Waiters version has more offense with the 2nd unit, but has less defense and will also cost more next season to maintain. The Taj version has less offense, but better defense, and has more minutes available for McD at the wing rotation.

[Seccci]

well with respect to you ralph. i dont know whats comical in not wanting to send taj for waiters 50ts% ,under 15per ( average player) "i want to be best player in the game" type of guy who will want to be payed in a year or amd thompson who is what? 15 PER(average), 11 points, 8 reb guy? thats what mirotic is projected to be with 3 point shooting, so idk what upgrade is that. he is also in NBA 3 years now, with no noticeable, eye opening improvement at all.

and its not like these guys are rookies with tons of potential. they are both more than years in NBA already and havent proven nothing. they havent done anything in playoffs either. taj did.

so what is comical is actually u and your attitude towards people responding with horror to these news.

if bulls deal straight with wolves for martin, i have no issue with. if they feel he is their target, go forth.

i insist on my view that based on what they did so far, both waiters and thompson are worse players than what bulls already have on roster, so they are no help what so ever. just garbage. my stance is actually backed by stats, so idk what comical on that

The beloved Taj Gibson is a career 9pts, 6rebs, 15per and 51% ts. So looking at the stats you put above, thanks btw, made my work easier. Yes I sit back and laugh at what people expect for Taj..

news flash guys the Bulls went out and spent over 12 mil, all our money on Taj s position.

im not against dealing taj for upgrade. as i said, if kevin martin is, who they want. im ok with that. if wolves want aj, well they will need to add to the trade, not bulls, which i think benefits the bulls.

i checked thomspon's stats- the guy actually REGRESSED last year compared to year before. YES< HIS NUMBERS ARE WORSE. i dont want that guy on the bulls at all now.

and rerisen already documented the brilliance of waiters along with his attitude in previous posts, i dont want that guy at all. so if regular poster on realg can see these stats, im sure our front office and coach thibs can see them too. i think those things u are hearing are misdirection to baloon the price for cavaliers to pay.

taj for clear upgrade that is better than butler, or pau or noah is ok with me. based on stats, what news we get throughout the season about persons attitude, waiters, thompson are steep downgrade from what we can actually get for taj gibson caliber player, even if he is career bench player.