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Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1281 » by Jcool0 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:44 pm

panthermark wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
I would trade Taj and MDJ for Waiters, Thompson and Martin. Have the best overall roster in the NBA, the best chance to win this year and worry about next year next year.


You can only play 5 at a time...
That is one of the main problems with that trade.

Being that deep borders on useless because you have guys that won't ever see the court....and there is a shelf life to NBA contracts.

If your starting line up is Rose/Martin/Butler/Noah/Gasol.

I'm going to "guess" that we don't have to give away Taj to get that starting line-up if MDJ and Snell are used.
The only difference beteen the back-ups is that you have Waiters and Thomas over Taj. The Waiters version has more offense with the 2nd unit, but has less defense and will also cost more next season to maintain. The Taj version has less offense, but better defense, and has more minutes available for McD at the wing rotation.


Spurs just won the title being 10-11 deep.
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1282 » by Future Coach » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:45 pm

panthermark wrote:
Future Coach wrote:You all realize that under the current CBA it makes no sense for a player to sign an extension as he can't sign for as many years? The way the CBA works is that the player must become a free agent to sign for a longer, more lucrative, deal. It is the exact same thing Aldridge is doing.


But you all also realize that he won't be traded for at least another 2 weeks right?


We get that....but the difference is that LMA isn't trying to force his way out, nor is he longing to get back to souther Cali....where a certain popular team (Lakers) just so happens to have max cap room.

If wants the most money....stay in Minny.
If he wants out, sign the extension.

LMA has already stated he will opt out and re-sign, strictly for financial reasons. Unless Love publically states that regardless of the season, he WILL re-sign with whatever team he goes to...F him.

Plus LMA is already on the Blazers...they really have no choice in the matter, nor are giving up assets for him.


Few things:

- Has Love publicly expressed this so-called "longing" to get back to S. California? He lives there in the off-season (just like Rose and many other wealthy people do). Doesn't mean he wants to play for the Lakers, especially when the Lakers are arguably further from contending than the T'Wolves are (something I do think he has indirectly said, if I remember correctly).

- Again, financially it makes no sense for him to sign an extension with the T'Wolves or any team he gets traded to. You can blame the CBA (or likely the Players Union) for that. So that is plainly an unrealistic expectation. The only realistic alternative to him being a "free agent" next off-season after being traded, is him opting-in to the final year of his current deal (like Carmelo did before) so he can make even more money on his next contract (again, like Carmelo).

- Lastly, I thought it was common knowledge that the sole reason so few teams (Warriors, Bulls, and now Cavs) are involved in the trade talks is because he or his agent has essentially told other interested teams that he is only interested in re-signing with the previously mentioned teams. As far as I have read, only the Nuggets are still trying to make a deal without assurances he would re-sign, while the three teams most involved have received that assurance.

In any event I think it is a moot point. I don't think the Bulls will present the best offer, and nor do they have to. They signed Gasol partially so they wouldn't have to "sell the farm" on such a move. Yet signing Gasol presents them with enough depth to kick-the-tires (so to speak) on such a deal. But the Bulls are contenders with or without Love, something the Cavs can't claim, thus the Cavs will make a better offer out of desperation.
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1283 » by blumeany » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:46 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
panthermark wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
I would trade Taj and MDJ for Waiters, Thompson and Martin. Have the best overall roster in the NBA, the best chance to win this year and worry about next year next year.


You can only play 5 at a time...
That is one of the main problems with that trade.

Being that deep borders on useless because you have guys that won't ever see the court....and there is a shelf life to NBA contracts.

If your starting line up is Rose/Martin/Butler/Noah/Gasol.

I'm going to "guess" that we don't have to give away Taj to get that starting line-up if MDJ and Snell are used.
The only difference beteen the back-ups is that you have Waiters and Thomas over Taj. The Waiters version has more offense with the 2nd unit, but has less defense and will also cost more next season to maintain. The Taj version has less offense, but better defense, and has more minutes available for McD at the wing rotation.


Spurs just won the title being 10-11 deep.


And potentially 3 hall of famers in their starting lineup - but we'll just ignore that, right? :)
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1284 » by Ralphb07 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:47 pm

Seccci wrote:
Ralphb07 wrote:
Seccci wrote:well with respect to you ralph. i dont know whats comical in not wanting to send taj for waiters 50ts% ,under 15per ( average player) "i want to be best player in the game" type of guy who will want to be payed in a year or amd thompson who is what? 15 PER(average), 11 points, 8 reb guy? thats what mirotic is projected to be with 3 point shooting, so idk what upgrade is that. he is also in NBA 3 years now, with no noticeable, eye opening improvement at all.

and its not like these guys are rookies with tons of potential. they are both more than years in NBA already and havent proven nothing. they havent done anything in playoffs either. taj did.

so what is comical is actually u and your attitude towards people responding with horror to these news.

if bulls deal straight with wolves for martin, i have no issue with. if they feel he is their target, go forth.

i insist on my view that based on what they did so far, both waiters and thompson are worse players than what bulls already have on roster, so they are no help what so ever. just garbage. my stance is actually backed by stats, so idk what comical on that :crazy:


The beloved Taj Gibson is a career 9pts, 6rebs, 15per and 51% ts. So looking at the stats you put above, thanks btw, made my work easier. Yes I sit back and laugh at what people expect for Taj..

news flash guys the Bulls went out and spent over 12 mil, all our money on Taj s position.


im not against dealing taj for upgrade. as i said, if kevin martin is, who they want. im ok with that. if wolves want aj, well they will need to add to the trade, not bulls, which i think benefits the bulls.

i checked thomspon's stats- the guy actually REGRESSED last year compared to year before. YES< HIS NUMBERS ARE WORSE. i dont want that guy on the bulls at all now.

and rerisen already documented the brilliance of waiters along with his attitude in previous posts, i dont want that guy at all. so if regular poster on realg can see these stats, im sure our front office and coach thibs can see them too. i think those things u are hearing are misdirection to baloon the price for cavaliers to pay.

taj for clear upgrade that is better than butler, or pau or noah is ok with me. based on stats, what news we get throughout the season about persons attitude, waiters, thompson are steep downgrade from what we can actually get for taj gibson caliber player, even if he is career bench player.


And the Bulls front office thinks the upgrade is Waiters. The Bulls love him and have been trying to nab him since the draft. .

BTW Deng regressed on that team last yr as well and cost him money. That's the thing people miss imo. It's that getting those players on a, real team can help.

Heck didn't Kyrie regress too?
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1285 » by Jcool0 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:50 pm

blumeany wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
panthermark wrote:
You can only play 5 at a time...
That is one of the main problems with that trade.

Being that deep borders on useless because you have guys that won't ever see the court....and there is a shelf life to NBA contracts.

If your starting line up is Rose/Martin/Butler/Noah/Gasol.

I'm going to "guess" that we don't have to give away Taj to get that starting line-up if MDJ and Snell are used.
The only difference beteen the back-ups is that you have Waiters and Thomas over Taj. The Waiters version has more offense with the 2nd unit, but has less defense and will also cost more next season to maintain. The Taj version has less offense, but better defense, and has more minutes available for McD at the wing rotation.


Spurs just won the title being 10-11 deep.


And potentially 3 hall of famers in their starting lineup - but we'll just ignore that, right? :)


Who was ignoring that?
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1286 » by panthermark » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:51 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
panthermark wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
I would trade Taj and MDJ for Waiters, Thompson and Martin. Have the best overall roster in the NBA, the best chance to win this year and worry about next year next year.


You can only play 5 at a time...
That is one of the main problems with that trade.

Being that deep borders on useless because you have guys that won't ever see the court....and there is a shelf life to NBA contracts.

If your starting line up is Rose/Martin/Butler/Noah/Gasol.

I'm going to "guess" that we don't have to give away Taj to get that starting line-up if MDJ and Snell are used.
The only difference beteen the back-ups is that you have Waiters and Thomas over Taj. The Waiters version has more offense with the 2nd unit, but has less defense and will also cost more next season to maintain. The Taj version has less offense, but better defense, and has more minutes available for McD at the wing rotation.


Spurs just won the title being 10-11 deep.

See myth thread(s)...
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1287 » by Jordan45822 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:52 pm

@WojYahooNBA: Free agent guard Mo Williams is nearing an agreement with Minnesota, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

Guess they trying to give Cleveland JJ Barea
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1288 » by Seccci » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:54 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:
Seccci wrote:
Ralphb07 wrote:
The beloved Taj Gibson is a career 9pts, 6rebs, 15per and 51% ts. So looking at the stats you put above, thanks btw, made my work easier. Yes I sit back and laugh at what people expect for Taj..

news flash guys the Bulls went out and spent over 12 mil, all our money on Taj s position.


im not against dealing taj for upgrade. as i said, if kevin martin is, who they want. im ok with that. if wolves want aj, well they will need to add to the trade, not bulls, which i think benefits the bulls.

i checked thomspon's stats- the guy actually REGRESSED last year compared to year before. YES< HIS NUMBERS ARE WORSE. i dont want that guy on the bulls at all now.

and rerisen already documented the brilliance of waiters along with his attitude in previous posts, i dont want that guy at all. so if regular poster on realg can see these stats, im sure our front office and coach thibs can see them too. i think those things u are hearing are misdirection to baloon the price for cavaliers to pay.

taj for clear upgrade that is better than butler, or pau or noah is ok with me. based on stats, what news we get throughout the season about persons attitude, waiters, thompson are steep downgrade from what we can actually get for taj gibson caliber player, even if he is career bench player.


And the Bulls front office thinks the upgrade is Waiters. The Bulls love him and have been trying to nab him since the draft. .

BTW Deng regressed on that team last yr as well and cost him money. That's the thing people miss imo. It's that getting those players on a, real team can help.

Heck didn't Kyrie regress too?


well no need to the defend the trade lol. its not like im going to change what FO is thinking or doing. i just cant believe they would do that proposed trade, because it actually doesnt help with balancing the roster, no adding depth since these guys are not going to beat mcdermott, butler, noah,pau for those
minutes PER game in thibs system. this ofc my opinion, but its made on combination of stats from basketball reference, watching NBA games and bulls and thibs like every game they play.

those 2 guys help bulls with nothing in my opinion and are not upgrade over what we already have on the roster. mcdermott, butler and mirotic who you like need minutes. i dont see where thompson, or waiters get their 30 minutes a game at minimum( im sure being close to new contract negotiations,thats what they or they agent would demand)

let me end this with saying, i hope it wont happen. thanks
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1289 » by Magilla_Gorilla » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:54 pm

blumeany wrote:And potentially 3 hall of famers in their starting lineup - but we'll just ignore that, right? :)



None of which are in their prime or playing like HOF'ers.
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1290 » by Ice Man » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:56 pm

Spurs played an 8 1/2 man rotation in the Finals, with Marco being the half, falling out of the rotation the final three games. But there's no question that the depth helped keep them fresh when they reached that point.

So winning via depth is not a total myth for last year.
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1291 » by DRoseCantStop » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:56 pm

Jordan45822 wrote:@WojYahooNBA: Free agent guard Mo Williams is nearing an agreement with Minnesota, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

Guess they trying to give Cleveland JJ Barea

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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1292 » by bad knees » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:56 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:
cubd8 wrote:
Ralphb07 wrote:It's awesome when my source breaks a story days before Stein. Philadelphia and Chicago are the two possible teams in a 3 way and both want Waiters. Problem with Philly is they aren't willing to give up picks in a deal.


Ralph - Is Chicago trying to acquire Love or just be the 3rd team?


Both. The Bulls either want Love or make sure Cleveland gives up as much as possible.

Minny IMO wants Gibson and Wiggins which is why I think Cleveland and Love is more likely.

The Bulls would swap Gibson for Waiters and Thompson in a heart beat. Also willing to take on Martin and sending out others, picks to make it work. Cleveland knows Bennett sucks and is trying to push him instead


Hey, Ralph. Thanks for the info, and keep posting. And keep getting better.

Notwithstanding a few potshots, I think that most on the board understand and support the enthusiasm that you and the FO have for getting Waiters and Thompson for Taj.

But my question relates to the Bulls offer for Love. Does your source confirm that Mirotic was offered as part of the deal? It has been reported that the Bulls orally promised Mirotic that he would not be traded, and there's been a few articles about how the Bulls have to keep this promise to have integrity around the league and before God.

If Mirotic is not in the Bulls' offer, then who is? Taj, McDermott, Snell and picks? I hope not both Taj and Butler, as I worry about the impact on our defense.
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1293 » by Ralphb07 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:57 pm

Seccci wrote:
Ralphb07 wrote:
Seccci wrote:
im not against dealing taj for upgrade. as i said, if kevin martin is, who they want. im ok with that. if wolves want aj, well they will need to add to the trade, not bulls, which i think benefits the bulls.

i checked thomspon's stats- the guy actually REGRESSED last year compared to year before. YES< HIS NUMBERS ARE WORSE. i dont want that guy on the bulls at all now.

and rerisen already documented the brilliance of waiters along with his attitude in previous posts, i dont want that guy at all. so if regular poster on realg can see these stats, im sure our front office and coach thibs can see them too. i think those things u are hearing are misdirection to baloon the price for cavaliers to pay.

taj for clear upgrade that is better than butler, or pau or noah is ok with me. based on stats, what news we get throughout the season about persons attitude, waiters, thompson are steep downgrade from what we can actually get for taj gibson caliber player, even if he is career bench player.


And the Bulls front office thinks the upgrade is Waiters. The Bulls love him and have been trying to nab him since the draft. .

BTW Deng regressed on that team last yr as well and cost him money. That's the thing people miss imo. It's that getting those players on a, real team can help.

Heck didn't Kyrie regress too?


well no need to the defend the trade lol. its not like im going to change what FO is thinking or doing. i just cant believe they would do that proposed trade, because it actually doesnt help with balancing the roster, no adding depth since these guys are not going to beat mcdermott, butler, noah,pau for those
minutes PER game in thibs system. this ofc my opinion, but its made on combination of stats from basketball reference, watching NBA games and bulls and thibs like every game they play.

those 2 guys help bulls with nothing in my opinion and are not upgrade over what we already have ob the roster. mcdermott, butler and mirotic ho you like need minutes. i dont see where thompson, or waiters get their minutes a game at minimum( im sure being close to new contract negotiations,thats what they or they agent would demand)

let me end this with saying, i hope it wont happen. thanks
I'm working and on my phone typing so it's hard to go into detail. I'll shoot you a pm later with why they like it and why I like it
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1294 » by singal3 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:58 pm

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To0JIyG9UC0[/youtube]

Not sure how people don't like this guy. He didn't miss one shot in this video!!!
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1295 » by FecesOfDeath » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:59 pm

panthermark wrote:See myth thread(s)...


Almost every championship team had:
1. Great all-around defense (at least top 10 in efficiency)
2. Consistent low-post scoring
3. Above average rim protection

Depth with borderline all-stars or top-heavy shallowness with superstars don't really matter, only as long they matter in any of the three traits.
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1296 » by Seccci » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:01 pm

Ralphb07 wrote:
Seccci wrote:
Ralphb07 wrote:
And the Bulls front office thinks the upgrade is Waiters. The Bulls love him and have been trying to nab him since the draft. .

BTW Deng regressed on that team last yr as well and cost him money. That's the thing people miss imo. It's that getting those players on a, real team can help.

Heck didn't Kyrie regress too?


well no need to the defend the trade lol. its not like im going to change what FO is thinking or doing. i just cant believe they would do that proposed trade, because it actually doesnt help with balancing the roster, no adding depth since these guys are not going to beat mcdermott, butler, noah,pau for those
minutes PER game in thibs system. this ofc my opinion, but its made on combination of stats from basketball reference, watching NBA games and bulls and thibs like every game they play.

those 2 guys help bulls with nothing in my opinion and are not upgrade over what we already have ob the roster. mcdermott, butler and mirotic ho you like need minutes. i dont see where thompson, or waiters get their minutes a game at minimum( im sure being close to new contract negotiations,thats what they or they agent would demand)

let me end this with saying, i hope it wont happen. thanks
I'm working and on my phone typing so it's hard to go into detail. I'll shoot you a pm later with why they like it and why I like it


ok thanks ralph. i dont want to be argumentative here, just reading that we give taj, picks, snell and get back waiters, thompson made me feel bit uneasy.
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1297 » by panthermark » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:02 pm

Ice Man wrote:Spurs played an 8 1/2 man rotation in the Finals, with Marco being the half, falling out of the rotation the final three games. But there's no question that the depth helped keep them fresh when they reached that point.

So winning via depth is not a total myth for last year.

I don't think anyone at all is saying depth does not help you get there. The regular season is a grind...so depth helps...100%.

What I at least am trying to say is that once you get there, the rotations shorten up. There are not back to backs. There are TV time-outs. The starters/best players play longer minutes. So being 10 or 11 deep does not really help. You often see 8 man rotations deep into the play-offs.
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1298 » by DRoseCantStop » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:08 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/wojyahoonba/status/493865365324046336[/tweet]
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1299 » by panthermark » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:12 pm

FecesOfDeath wrote:
panthermark wrote:See myth thread(s)...


Almost every championship team had:
1. Great all-around defense (at least top 10 in efficiency)
2. Consistent low-post scoring
3. Above average rim protection

Depth with borderline all-stars or top-heavy shallowness with superstars don't really matter, only as long they matter in any of the three traits.

Did you type that with a staright face?

I mean, the first 3 items you listed are true...

But almost all of them had major top end talent. The Spurs and Pistons were the teams that had the "least" top end talent. The Piston's used record breaking defense and a short rotation. This most recent Spurs team set a record in the Finals for shooting percentages...and their "talent level" had more to do with age than actual talent being that the core of All-Stars/Superstar has been together for a dozen years and had already won 3 rings together.

WE ARE NOT THE SPURS.
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Re: Love #5: Where there is Love there is life 

Post#1300 » by cedric76 » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:14 pm

I think u should forget about love, ur team is already great
Suggs/Black/Joseph
Bane/Jett/Harris
F-Wagner/da Silva/Houstan
Banchero/Isaac/Moe
Carter/Goga/Raynaud

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