RealGM Top 100 List #12

[Baller2014]

I keep hearing Karl Malone had failures in the playoffs. The things is, so did Kobe. Lots of them, despite his usually better teams to make it harder for defences to focus on him. Karl Malone isn't being judged against himself, he's being judged against the remaining contenders of Oscar, Kobe, West, Dr J, D.Rob, etc. Kobe often posted big numbers on O, but whether those numbers translated to a bigger impact than Karl Malone (even peak to peak) is highly questionable, because Karl Malone was a monster on both ends of the court. Then the 2 clinchers; Karl Malone had way more longevity, and Karl Malone doesn't come with Kobe's negatives (still unaddressed 7 threads later).

[colts18]

Argue the bolded. I have a tough time seeing Dirk as better those years real talk.

2003 is Dirk to me. His team had a 7.91 SRS to Kobe's 2.71 SRS. When Dirk was on the court, he had much more impact. His team was a +12.6 team with him on the court. With Kobe on the court, the Lakers were a +3.8 team. That is a huge difference. Dirk simply had more impact that year. When Shaq was out, Kobe went 5-10. Shaq was still the best player on the team that year.

2007. Dirk led a mediocre team to 67 wins. That is an amazing accomplishment. He had just 1 all-star on his side and led them to 67 wins. His playoffs weren't great but its not Kobe played awesome vs the bad Suns defense.

2012. I don't think that year is even a debate. Dirk was still a top 5 player that year. 2012 was a down year for Kobe.

[Clyde Frazier]

Argue the bolded. I have a tough time seeing Dirk as better those years real talk.

2003 is Dirk to me. His team had a 7.91 SRS to Kobe's 2.71 SRS. When Dirk was on the court, he had much more impact. His team was a +12.6 team with him on the court. With Kobe on the court, the Lakers were a +3.8 team. That is a huge difference. Dirk simply had more impact that year. When Shaq was out, Kobe went 5-10. Shaq was still the best player on the team that year.

2007. Dirk led a mediocre team to 67 wins. That is an amazing accomplishment. He had just 1 all-star on his side and led them to 67 wins. His playoffs weren't great but its not Kobe played awesome vs the bad Suns defense.

2012. I don't think that year is even a debate. Dirk was still a top 5 player that year. 2012 was a down year for Kobe.

The suns weren't bad defensively that season. They ranked 13th in DRTG. Kobe also had a decent series against them all things considered:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ml#PHO-LAL

But yeah, you could still give that season to dirk with the amazing regular season and winning MVP. Depends on how much you value that 1st round exit to GSW just being a historically bad matchup for DAL.

[Jaivl]

Gonna vote tomorrow. That new data by Fplii and Lorak is still making me doubt between Oscar and Jerry (although it seems quite weird they had that massive defensive impact and that negligible offensive impact).

Gasol was an excellent defender at his Peak.

I'd say "well above average", "good", but certainly not "excellent".

[DQuinn1575]

Baylor was one of top 5 players for west's first 7-8 years in the league

While I am not sure that is true I never said anything to suggest the opposite.
I just don't see Baylor from 64-70 being better on average then Peak Gasol.

(18.8 PER) Baylor : 22 / 11.5 / 4apg on 43% / 48%TS --- .088 WSP48
(23 PER) Gasol : 19 / 11 / 3apg on 56%FG / 61%TS --- .222 WSP48

Gasol is the better rebounder (pace).
They score about the same volume but Gasol has an incredible edge in efficiency.
Passing is surprisingly a wash statistically though I haven't watched Baylor enough to feel confident in saying he was Gasol's equal in that category (Gasol is an ATG passer).
Gasol was an excellent defender at his Peak. Not sure about a past Peak Baylor who often had injury issues.

The Baylor West had from 61-63 was better then the Gasol that Kobe had but beyond that Baylor on average dropped below the Gasol level.

Actually Baylor averaged about 24 ppg
He suffers in this as he gets worse the last 2 years
And in 69 and playoffs for 70 west had a teammate way better than gasoline
Baylor was a pretty good passer which is overlooked

But jerry west played 14 seasons with one of the top 5-6 players in the league, except the regular season when wilt was hurt.

Compare that to anyone else in consideration right now

[DQuinn1575]

duplicate post deleted

[colts18]

The suns weren't bad defensively that season. They ranked 13th in DRTG. Kobe also had a decent series against them all things considered:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ml#PHO-LAL

But yeah, you could still give that season to dirk with the amazing regular season and winning MVP. Depends on how much you value that 1st round exit to GSW just being a historically bad matchup for DAL.

Kobe was better in his series but it was not a big advantage. 25 PER to 21 PER, 110 O rating vs Dirk's 111 O rating, 20 game score vs 16 game score. But Dirk's advantage in the regular season was too much to overcome. 2007 was when Dirk was playing at his best.

[ElGee]

Added Dirk and Robinson to the WOWY thread. viewtopic.php?f=344&t=1333570&p=40491015#p40491015

Quick take:

01-04
-Early Mavs teams were loaded with talent, not great fit
-Finley was still a key level player
-Nash and (back then) Dirk were underrated

05-07
-Good balanced teams
-Data suggests Josh Howard was a good player at one point in time (!)

2011
Fittingly Tyson Chandler posts the same WOWY number as Dirk in the same games missed (Chandler was a top-25 player IMO that year.)

For Robinson...one of the most confusing, incongruent WOWY reports of anyone in the top-20. Lots of injuries. Lots of flux. Some weirdly constructed teams. I recommend a deeeep dive for people.

PS Will try and post Barkley some time this week.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Here is how I see Kobe and Dirk:

01: Kobe
02: Kobe
03: Dirk
04: Dirk
05: Dirk
06: Dirk
07: Dirk
08: Kobe
09: Kobe
10: Kobe
11: Dirk
12: Dirk
13: Kobe
14: Dirk

That's 8-6 for Dirk. I came in the project with Kobe ahead of Dirk, but now I'm not sure. I think I might lean towards Dirk because he was a better playoff performer and was more suited for playing against great defenses. Kobe was better on offense, but Dirk was the better defender.

For those years, excluding 2014, which is a no-brainer because Kobe barely played, I'd have it like this.

2001- Kobe
2002- Kobe
2003- Kobe
2004- Kobe
2005- Dirk
2006- Kobe
2007- Kobe
2008- Kobe
2009- Kobe
2010- Kobe
2011- Dirk
2012- Kobe
2013- Kobe

I don't consider Dirk a better defender either, even though I'm well aware that on/off numbers suggest he is.

I keep hearing Karl Malone had failures in the playoffs. The things is, so did Kobe. Lots of them, despite his usually better teams to make it harder for defences to focus on him. Karl Malone isn't being judged against himself, he's being judged against the remaining contenders of Oscar, Kobe, West, Dr J, D.Rob, etc. Kobe often posted big numbers on O, but whether those numbers translated to a bigger impact than Karl Malone (even peak to peak) is highly questionable, because Karl Malone was a monster on both ends of the court. Then the 2 clinchers; Karl Malone had way more longevity, and Karl Malone doesn't come with Kobe's negatives (still unaddressed 7 threads later).

You keep hearing it because it's very important. Kobe had some failures, just like every player does. The difference is, Kobe is one of the best playoff performers of all-time and typically raised his game in the playoffs, while Malone's game almost always declined significantly in the playoffs. Malone has far more failures in the playoffs than Kobe with far less success and didn't have reach the heights Kobe did in the playoffs. So stop acting like they're remotely comparable in the playoffs because they're not.

And no, peak really isn't close. 2006 Kobe was clearly better than Malone ever was, and if you want to pick Kobe on a good team, then look at 2008 when Kobe had yet another playoff run superior to any of Malone's. Just compare that run to Malone's back to back finals appearances in '97 and '98 and it's a bad joke.

[Texas Chuck]

Argue the bolded. I have a tough time seeing Dirk as better those years real talk.

2003 is Dirk to me. His team had a 7.91 SRS to Kobe's 2.71 SRS. When Dirk was on the court, he had much more impact. His team was a +12.6 team with him on the court. With Kobe on the court, the Lakers were a +3.8 team. That is a huge difference. Dirk simply had more impact that year. When Shaq was out, Kobe went 5-10. Shaq was still the best player on the team that year.

2007. Dirk led a mediocre team to 67 wins. That is an amazing accomplishment. He had just 1 all-star on his side and led them to 67 wins. His playoffs weren't great but its not Kobe played awesome vs the bad Suns defense.

2012. I don't think that year is even a debate. Dirk was still a top 5 player that year. 2012 was a down year for Kobe.

Couple things--- Dirk was probably not a top 5 player in 2012. For the first time ever Dirk wasnt in great shape and missed some games to work on conditioning, struggled with his knee the first half of the year and was merely good. 2nd half of the season he turned it around and closed the season looking close to how he typically does, but I don't see him as a top 5 guy in 2012 tbh.

JHo was an all-star in 2007, but only as an injury replacement and seemingly only because of Dallas absurd record where they figured they had to take another Mav. In reality Z-bo or Brand should have gotten the spot once Boozer couldn't play. Josh had a good year, but not really an all-star one. Which makes that 67 wins even crazier. After starting 0-4 no less.

[Basketballefan]

Argue the bolded. I have a tough time seeing Dirk as better those years real talk.

2003 is Dirk to me. His team had a 7.91 SRS to Kobe's 2.71 SRS. When Dirk was on the court, he had much more impact. His team was a +12.6 team with him on the court. With Kobe on the court, the Lakers were a +3.8 team. That is a huge difference. Dirk simply had more impact that year. When Shaq was out, Kobe went 5-10. Shaq was still the best player on the team that year.

2007. Dirk led a mediocre team to 67 wins. That is an amazing accomplishment. He had just 1 all-star on his side and led them to 67 wins. His playoffs weren't great but its not Kobe played awesome vs the bad Suns defense.

2012. I don't think that year is even a debate. Dirk was still a top 5 player that year. 2012 was a down year for Kobe.

2003- I don't use +/- and said why i believe they're flawed so i'm not going to buy any arguments based on that. Kobe was clearly better imo, scored much more on comparable efficiency, better passer, and far better defender, and had a higher PER. Who cares that Shaq was still the best player on that squad? He would've been if Dirk was there instead of Kobe. Kobe>Dirk that year quite clearly, deal with it.

2007: Dirk 25 9 3 61 TS%, Kobe 32 6 5 58 TS%, so again much better raw numbers on comparable efficiency, it's clear Kobe had to carry a bigger load offensively. Dirk's roster was much better than Kobe's there's no denying that so don't try, Jason Terry, Josh Howard, Jerry Stackhouse, Dampier etc. Then we get to the playoffs where Dirk played like trash and was apart of one of the worst upsets in the 1st round in nba history. So again Kobe>Dirk that year imo.

2012: Not debatable really?? Kobe 27 5 5, Dirk 22 7 2, yeah Dirk was more efficient but was scoring on considerably less volume. Kobe also had the better team record and went further in the playoffs, since you like to use team success for Dirk in 2007. It's not blasphemous that you think Dirk was better but to say Dirk>Kobe and there's no debate is just ignorant.

So all in all i don't think 03 is even debatable. The other 2 are debatable but outside shots imo.

[Baller2014]

Was Karl Malone's peak really at age 34-35? Just because that's when the team made the finals, that doesn't mean it represented Karl's peak. His physical, statistical (and probably actual) peak was probably from 88-93 (age 25-30). During that stretch his regular season numbers were between 27-31ppg, 11-12rpg, 2.5-4apg, all on a FG% of 52-56%. His playoff numbers aren't always as good (nor are Kobe's, despite his advantages), but it's easy to find playoffs where Karl posted big numbers; 30-12 on 482. FG% in 1988, 30-16 on 500. FG% in 1989, 29-13-3 on 455. FG% in 91, 29-11-3 on 521. FG% in 92. Even as late as 95, at age 32, he was still putting up 30-13-4 on 466. FG% in the playoffs. Sure, he wasn't equalling his regular season #'s all the time, but he was still putting up huge numbers, and numbers big enough it's pretty clear his impact was more significant than Kobe given that any mild offensive advantage Kobe has is totally dwarfed by the monster defensive advantage Malone has. Malone is being compared to Kobe, not to himself, and he was doing it with lesser teams, while the other team's D swarmed him (because Stockton, for all his good qualities, wasn't able to create his own shot to take some of the pressure off).

[Texas Chuck]

Can we please stop with the idea that Jerry Stackhouse was a good basketball player in Dallas? Please. He was dreadful offensively and Avery gave him way more minutes than his play deserved. Please tell me how 12/2/3 and shooting 43% was good?

I don't care to argue Kobe support vs Dirk support because its pointless but I can't let the Stackhouse thing go. I normally don't agree with tsherkin's "he sucked ass" offensively comments but in this case it would apply in spades.

[ShaqAttack3234]

It's a joke bringing up the '89 playoffs for Karl's numbers. Karl's 51 win Jazz were swept in an upset loss to Nelson's 44 win Warriors, and most importantly, look up the numbers every star put up vs Nelson's Warriors in his first tenure with them. Lets take that series, Stockton averaged 27 ppg and 14 apg on 51 FG% and 60 TS% in that same series, numbers he never came remotely close to duplicating in any other series. So the opponent and the 3 game sample size should be enough reason not to read into that as some feat for Karl.

As for '88, well, once again, it was Karl's typical mediocre playoff efficiency, especially for the late 80's Western Conference. He was very good in '92 and good vs Houston in the '95 1st round, iirc. But even Karl's better series and runs pale in comparison to Kobe. And how is 45.5 FG% good for the '91 playoffs? Especially since he faced two up-tempo teams, as he usually did in the late 80's/early 90's.

Hell, prime Kobe's FG% wasn't much lower than Malone's, and better than some of Malone's runs. Forget about TS% which was clearly better. Malone isn't a comparable playoff performer to Kobe. It's not even remotely close.

And I'm not picking '98 as Malone's peak as he got to the finals. I find it difficult to pick any year between '94-'98 as his peak and only slightly lean towards '98. In general, I consider this to be the best version of Malone because his passing, jump shot and post defense were considerably better, even though early 90's Malone was better with the athletic power game such as running the floor and posting up deep, though old Malone still did quite a bit of that. Malone's numbers benefited in the late 80's/early 90's, though because of a faster pace compared to '94-'00, worse defense, and a younger, better Stockton.

Can we please stop with the idea that Jerry Stackhouse was a good basketball player in Dallas? Please. He was dreadful offensively and Avery gave him way more minutes than his play deserved. Please tell me how 12/2/3 and shooting 43% was good?

I don't care to argue Kobe support vs Dirk support because its pointless but I can't let the Stackhouse thing go. I normally agree with tsherkin's "he sucked ass" offensively comments but in this case it would apply in spades.

I disagree. I thought he was a good 6th man that year and 12 ppg on 54 TS% in just 24 mpg isn't bad at all, imo.

[The Infamous1]

I don't see how baller can say the numbers I used were misleading. I took Kobe's 5 year prime(06-10) Vs malone's 5 year prime(94-98)and Kobe's efficiency in the PS was clearly better(57% TS to 52%TS)despite the fact Malone played with A top 5 PG of all time spoon feeding him easy buckets. Meanwhile Kobe was playing with scrub PG's like old derek fisher and Smush Parker

[DQuinn1575]

The issue I have when people pace adjust the 60s is they only do it one
way.

They do not adjust for shooting %, which would go up as the game is
slowed down.

They also do not adjust for the fact that scorers were more stingy giving
out assists

And they don't look to see how dominant the player is in his time.


To compensate for these, stats should be normalized to the same baseline.
The moderator in an initial post asked that they be normalized to the year
2000.

So...


Stats adjusted for team pace - all stats normalized to 2000 season

Each year weighted equally

player last yr of 9 ppg/ reb/ asst/ ts%+(over league)

West 72 24.7 4.1 6.8 0.073
Kobe 09 28.4 5.9 5.4 0.030
LeBron 14 28.3 7.8 7.4 0.058
Magic 91 17.9 6.8 10.6 0.077
Oscar 69 25.7 6.4 10.5 0.086

So, Robertson assists are basically tied for first with Magic.
His true shooting % relative to the league is best.
His scoring is 3rd, but his shooting is well ahead of Kobe

Oscar is superior to West across the board
Kobe scores better, but only due to higher volume
Oscar is superior in scoring to Magic, and fairly similar in rebounding and assists.


I voted LeBron ahead of all these guys.



Moses 87 23.1 13.9 1.4 0.035
Robinson 99 23.2 11.6 2.8 0.056
K Malone 98 26.6 11.1 3.5 0.059


Moses has a great 5 year stretch, but loses out when we go beyond that.

Karl Malone and Robinson are darn good, but don't match the efficiency of OScar.



Oscar was the main cog (by far) of the league's top offense for many years.
He made the right decisions on the court.

He was the consensus best all-around player in history until Jordan appeared.





I vote for Oscar Robertson at #12.

[RayBan-Sematra]

So all in all i don't think 03 is even debatable.

I dunno.
I wasn't super impressed by Kobe defensively in 03.
Felt he was inconsistent in the regular-season and then straight up bad in the playoffs.
This was a year where he was first really given the freedom to gun offensively and that combined with his Championship boosted ego caused his defensive effort to wane.
Dirk happens to have a noticable edge in defensive RAPM.

Also while Kobe was impressive in the regular-season I was more impressed by Dirk in the playoffs.
He comes out ahead in most advanced stats.

Kobe in the first round : 32 / 5 / 7apg on 43%FG / 53%TS
Dirk in the first round : 35 / 10 / 2apg on 55%FG / 66%TS*

*removed one game due to blowout/lowminutes

Pretty clear edge for Dirk especially once we factor in consistency.
Kobe had 3 games against Minny with a TS% well below 50%.

Kobe VS Spurs : 32 / 5 / 5 on 53%TS / 103 ORTG
Dirk after 1nd round (pre-injury) : 23 / 14.4 / 3apg on 59%TS / 117 ORTG*
Dirk's 1st game VS the Spurs before his injury : 38 / 15 / 2ast on 72%TS / 135 ORTG*

Dirk has a massive edge in offensive efficiency. Better scoring efficiency, much lower TOV rate etc...
Kobe has a sizable edge in scoring volume and a minor edge in playmaking.
Dirk has a huge edge in rebounding.
Dirk was playing better post-season defense.

I would also add that Kobe's series numbers VS the Spurs are better then his actual series was.
He struggled in the first two games of that series and in the elimination game (g6).
Very inconsistent series.

*Assumed his injury took place in his 2nd to last game due to sudden drop in stats/fts but need someone else to confirm this.

[90sAllDecade]

I'm working my way through the thread, but wanted to post this. It's the power forwards being mentioned (and Dr. J and Kobe), I'll do Oscar and West after this.

Team Support Comparison

Julius Erving

Spoiler:

16 year career

Years with 1 All Star: x14
Years with 2 All Star: x6
Years with 3 All Star: 2
HOF coach: 0

* Moses Malone (MVP x1, Finals MVP x1, All NBA 1st team x2, All NBA 2nd team x1, Def. 1st team x1)
George McGinnis (All NBA 1st team x1, All NBA 2nd team x1)
Bobby Jones (Sixth Man of the Year x1, Def. 1st team x8, 2nd team x1)
Maurice Cheeks (Def. 1st team x4, Def. 2nd team x1)
Charlie Scott (2nd team All ABA)
C. Barkley (All NBA 2nd team x1)
Brian Taylor (Def. 1st team x2)

Kobe Bryant

Spoiler:

17 year career (2014)

Years with 1 All Star: x12
With 2 All Star: x2
With 3 All Star: x1
HOF Coach: x11

[Kobe was an 18 year old high school rookie in 96-97 with some of these guys]

*Shaq O’Neal (MVP x1, Finals MVP x 3, All NBA 1st team x6, All NBA 2nd x1, All NBA 3rd x1, Def. 2nd team x3)
Pau Gasol (All NBA 2nd team x1, All NBA 3rd team x2)
Andrew Bynum (All NBA 2nd team x1)
Lamar Odom (Sixth Man of the Year x1)
Eddie Jones (Def. 2nd team x1)

Karl Malone

Spoiler:

18 year career

Years with 1 All Star: x12
With 2 All Star: x2
With 3 All Star: 0
HOF Coach: x16 years

[Note: Includes Sloan mid-season and Phil Jackson, but Karl was age 40 with Phil, Kobe & Shaq]

*John Stockton (All NBA 1st team x2, All NBA 2nd x6, All NBA 3rd x2, Def. 2nd team x5)
Mark Eaton (Defensive Player of the Year x1, Def. 1st team x2, Def. 2nd team x2)
Kobe Bryant (All NBA 1st team x1, Def. 1st team x1)
Shaq O’neal (All NBA 1st team x1)

Charles Barkley

Spoiler:

15 year career

Years with 1 All Star: x9
With 2 All Star: x4
With 3 All Star: x1
HOF Coach: 0

[Note: Much of Barkley's Philly support came when he was young, and Hakeem when both were 33+ years of age.]

*Hakeem Olajuwon (All NBA 1st team x1, All NBA 3rd x1, Def. 2nd team x1)
Moses Malone (All NBA 1st team x1)
Kevin Johnson (All NBA 2nd team x1)
Maurice Cheeks (Def. 1st team x2, Def. 2nd x1)
Scottie Pippen (Def. 1st team x1)
Bobby Jones (Def. 2nd team x1)
Rick Mahorn (Def. 2nd team x1)
Dan Majerle (Def. 2nd team x1)
Steve Francis (Rookie of the Year)

Dirk Nowitzki

Spoiler:

15 year career (2014)

Years with 1 All Star: x6
With 2 All Star: x0
With 3 All Star: 0
HOF Coach: x7

[Note: Dirk’s HOF coach is Don Nelson. If Rick Carlise gets in (and I think he will with more years put in), then x14 years HOF coaching. And although Dirk lacked true all stars, Dallas' depth seemed good imo]

*Steve Nash (All NBA 3rd team x2)
Antwan Jamison (Sixth Man of the Year x1)
Jason Terry (Sixth Man of the Year x1)
Tyson Chandler (Def. 2nd team x1)

- Looking at this Dr. J had great team support (as did Karl and Kobe), and when researching Dirk I was impressed he didn't have many all star teammates, but his teams had very good depth at times imo (Phoenix with Barkley had the same some years as well).

But even considering that, it seems Dirk (or maybe Barkley considering coaching) might have had less help overall in comparing this group.

Chuck Texas can probably comment on this to be sure.

[Baller2014]

I think it's fair to write off the 89 series as an anomaly for Stockton, but Karl Malone had other playoff series where he was putting up comparable numbers, so let's not act like it's some fluke on his part. Sure, they lost, I put that largely on Stockton and Sloan. Kobe lost a lot of the series he's being praised for putting up big numbers in too. I don't see the inconsistency.

Your criticism of 88 as an example of Karl's "mediocre" efficiency is bizarre. Karl Malone had 30-12 on 482. FG%. On what planet is that inefficient? It's less efficient than regular season Karl, but Karl is being compared to Kobe Bryant not himself, and Kobe's FG% is typically much lower than 482. FG%. In fact Kobe had only 1 playoff year in his entire career where he shot better than 482. from the field. Of course, we can look at it from a TS% point of view, in which case Karl Malone had "only" a TS of 537% in 88... which is in line with Kobe's career 541TS% in the playoffs. If Karl is mediocre, Kobe must also be inefficient. Karl's career playoff TS% is 521, and if we don't include the lower TS%'s that came at age 36, and between ages 38-41. (and which clearly lowered his average substantially) then he'd have a TS% on par with Kobe's. Even if Kobe has a mild offensive advantage, Karl is killing him on the defensive end with his impact there, and he isn't bringing his parade of negatives, and he has lots more longevity... wait, what's Kobe's argument again?

Infamous continues to be intentionally misleading, by asserting Karl Malone's prime came when he was 31-35 years old. Statistically, physically and in reality that simply isn't so. He also continues to assert Kobe's prime is 06-10, an argument that isn't made consistently by Kobe's supporters at all. Nor is it reflective of Kobe's career as a whole (from 99-05 Kobe only had a single year with a playoff TS% higher than Karl's "mediocre" 537TS% in 88, and his playoff TS% from 2011 onwards was also worse than 537. So infamous has literally chosen the only sample of years in Kobe's career which 537TS% would look less than stellar). 06-10 Kobe wasn't anything like the defender he was in his early days either, so that's another problem with trying to focus this on 06-10 for Kobe, you're ceding an even bigger defensive gap to Malone. It's probably not a coincidence that Kobe's TS% started to look much more solid around the time he stopped putting any effort in on D.

The vote btw appears to be wide open. I count at least 41 participating voters this thread, so nobody is even close to a majority. A lot of the Oscar and ex-KG voters are also hovering before voting officially still (technically I count at least 11 Oscar votes thus far, based on poster comments in the last 2 threads). Thus far I have it:

Kobe- 7 (JBulls, Bballfan, Ardee, GC Pan, LArts, Shaqattack, Batmana)
K.Malone- 5 (Baller, Trex, realbig3, Merl, FJS)
Oscar- 4 (HBreak, Quo, Narigo, Quinn)
West- 2 (RayBan, Pen)
Dr J- 1 (Warspite)
D.Rob- 1 (Shutupandjam)

[Clyde Frazier]

Can we please stop with the idea that Jerry Stackhouse was a good basketball player in Dallas? Please. He was dreadful offensively and Avery gave him way more minutes than his play deserved. Please tell me how 12/2/3 and shooting 43% was good?

I don't care to argue Kobe support vs Dirk support because its pointless but I can't let the Stackhouse thing go. I normally don't agree with tsherkin's "he sucked ass" offensively comments but in this case it would apply in spades.

Yup. In his 4 semi-full seasons with dallas, he posted a net negative OFF/DEF rating of 105/108 on a team that won an avg of 59 games per season during that span. That's… hard to do when you're playing significant min. He also posted a pedestrian 52% TS and 45% eFG, which was well below the league avg.