The One And Only Offseason Thread 4

[NotTraxxe]

No one is in any rush. Haven't gotten any great S&T deals (no one wants to pay max/nearmax to a risky player and give up something significant.

Sun approach is QO or take our deal. We have nothing but time on our side.

Eric's options only dissapear.

[Suns Court 23]

No one is in any rush. Haven't gotten any great S&T deals (no one wants to pay max/nearmax to a risky player and give up something significant.

Sun approach is QO or take our deal. We have nothing but time on our side.

Eric's options only dissapear.

Thank you for the update, I appreciate it.

[AtheJ415]

This. I really don't buy the logic that time passing favors Eric. It favors Phoenix. Teams will continue to spend money. It's rare for teams to clear significant space this late in FA to sign a guy who will likely be matched regardless.

No one is in any rush. Haven't gotten any great S&T deals (no one wants to pay max/nearmax to a risky player and give up something significant.

Sun approach is QO or take our deal. We have nothing but time on our side.

Eric's options only dissapear.

[Sunsdeuce]

And as far as the Smith crap, he is an idiot and that wont change, although I have my own opinions as to the Ray Rice and the slap happy hoodrat... but that is not basketball conversation nor anything I wish to share since my opinion is not popular on that whole thing.

About the chances of getting Orlando to even think about giving up Oladipo???

Yeah, I'm still in awe that Stephen still has a job on espn. Anyway, oladipo is probably locked into Orlando, unless they get a deal that blows them away.


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[JDLAW]

This. I really don't buy the logic that time passing favors Eric. It favors Phoenix. Teams will continue to spend money. It's rare for teams to clear significant space this late in FA to sign a guy who will likely be matched regardless.

No one is in any rush. Haven't gotten any great S&T deals (no one wants to pay max/nearmax to a risky player and give up something significant.

Sun approach is QO or take our deal. We have nothing but time on our side.

Eric's options only dissapear.

Agreed. But Bledsoe and his agent are going to play the waiting game because they have nothing else at this point to move the Suns off their position.

If they want to play the waiting game with the Suns, hoping the Suns will compromise their position, Bledsoe and his agent need to do the following:

1. Make a statement to the public acknowledging that Bledsoe wants to be with his teammates in PHX in the short and long term. Public relations might not be cool to someone like Rich Paul, but he needs to engage in it and gain a little public support. It might not be helpful, but it does not hurt. It is folly to hold out hope that some white knight is going to show up and save the day. It is time to roll up the sleeves and get to the hard work of negotiations.

2. Acknowledge that the market has spoken with respect to a straight-up max deal, but state that the market has not been entirely accurate with respect to his value because (fill in the reasons, but make sure they are credible) and they think there exists a solution that can make both sides happy.

3. Get back to the bargaining table with some new ideas that will address each side's concerns. There are things that can be done to enhance the value of the Suns' offer without breaking the bank and which will allow both sides to declare a win for their respective positions. For example bonuses, build them in along a scale that ranges from relatively easy (# of games) to difficult (league MVP) to attain. Ask for a signing bonus (same amount of $$, but more up front. Build in a trade kicker and a 5th year if necessary. Shows commitment to the Suns, but also is avenue for more compensation.

4. Get to Phoenix - both Paul and Bledsoe. Face time does not hurt.

[King4Day]

No one is in any rush. Haven't gotten any great S&T deals (no one wants to pay max/nearmax to a risky player and give up something significant.

Sun approach is QO or take our deal. We have nothing but time on our side.

Eric's options only dissapear.

If he takes the QO, do you believe that ultimately spells the end of Bledsoe's tenure as a Sun by mid-season or next year?

[RunDogGun]

We need to start lowering the offer weekly. If he is that stupid to take the QO, which is so low because of missing so many games, then who needs another moron on the team?

[JDLAW]

We need to start lowering the offer weekly. If he is that stupid to take the QO, which is so low because of missing so many games, then who needs another moron on the team?

I understand the anger here, but this is not a very good negotiating tactic. The Suns need to continue to high road and leave things as they are. There are only a few misguided media types who align themselves with Bledsoe and even then they acknowledge that the Suns' offer is a reasonable market based offer for this accomplishments.

Taking $$ off the table will make the Suns appear to be bullies. Do not what this.

[JJ13]

Didn't know this, from Coro's article today...http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /13304217/

"Bledsoe has the option of playing in Phoenix for a $3.7 million qualifying offer next season and then becoming an unrestricted free agent next summer. His qualifying offer would be a little more tempting if not for his health, a huge issue for any willing investor. His qualifying offer would be about $5.2 million had he started one more game (he started 40 and played in 43)."

One more game started and the QO decision would have become a little more enticing for EB, although still an unlikely one.

[Sunsdeuce]

Didn't know this, from Coro's article today...http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /13304217/

"Bledsoe has the option of playing in Phoenix for a $3.7 million qualifying offer next season and then becoming an unrestricted free agent next summer. His qualifying offer would be a little more tempting if not for his health, a huge issue for any willing investor. His qualifying offer would be about $5.2 million had he started one more game (he started 40 and played in 43)."

One more game started and the QO decision would have become a little more enticing for EB, although still an unlikely one.

I think Bledsoe is "very" worried about his long term health. He isn't dumb, he knows it's Better to get a big long term deal now than take a chance that his knees give out, ultimately blowing his chance at a big deal in the future.

Also agree to coro's article that he has done nothing to embrace phx or the community. This isn't really helping his cause. His agent's lack of experience and training is hurting Bledsoe more than it is helping. An agent has more to do for their players than just negotiate contracts. An agent has a responsibility to get public support and other things (that shed a positive view on the player..,.like doing fund raising and such in the local community) which rich Paul is an epic fail right now.


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[RunDogGun]

We need to start lowering the offer weekly. If he is that stupid to take the QO, which is so low because of missing so many games, then who needs another moron on the team?

I understand the anger here, but this is not a very good negotiating tactic. The Suns need to continue to high road and leave things as they are. There are only a few misguided media types who align themselves with Bledsoe and even then they acknowledge that the Suns' offer is a reasonable market based offer for this accomplishments.

Taking $$ off the table will make the Suns appear to be bullies. Do not what this.

Why is my comment thought of as "angry"?

I'm not angry, I just think if we lowered the deal slightly, every week, it will cause this to come to a close. I really don't think it makes us look like bullies. I think a 4/$46 offer is still fair for a guy that only played a half of a season, and put up less than a player on the squad making almost half his starting salary.

I just don't think adding any money would go over well for future negotiations.

[Sunsdeuce]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/azsports/status/494186229206765568[/tweet]
I agree, he is going to get max. Unlike Bledsoe, goran is a max player.

[bwgood77]

Didn't know this, from Coro's article today...http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /13304217/

"Bledsoe has the option of playing in Phoenix for a $3.7 million qualifying offer next season and then becoming an unrestricted free agent next summer. His qualifying offer would be a little more tempting if not for his health, a huge issue for any willing investor. His qualifying offer would be about $5.2 million had he started one more game (he started 40 and played in 43)."

One more game started and the QO decision would have become a little more enticing for EB, although still an unlikely one.

Yeah, I was just reading Larry Coon's CBAFAQ and saw this

If the player was drafted with picks 10-30 and met the starter criteria, his qualifying offer equals the amount of the qualifying offer2 applicable to the ninth pick in the same draft class.

I guess starting at least half a season qualifies you to get the starter criteria, so he missed it by one game.

I wonder what the biggest contract anyone has gotten on a second contract when they hadn't even started at least half a season.

Does anyone know if any player has let his QO expire and still held out going into the actual season? I wonder if they feel like that would give him leverage considering it would impact team performance and possible shot at playoffs?

That could be the only leverage the player has and it happens in football all the time.

Of course that could backfire big time too if we said "OK, you will not be in our plans this season and we will revisit your RFA next offseason."

[Revived]

Why didn't the Suns do this with a Dragic since he had all those ankle problems?

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... _World_Cup

[JDLAW]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/azsports/status/494186229206765568[/tweet]
I agree, he is going to get max. Unlike Bledsoe, goran is a max player.

Aaah! another ESPN "insider" attempting to tell others how to act. We do not even need contract negotiations any more - just get a few stats from Kevin Pelton and his interpretation and everyone can avoid those pesky contract negotiations. Idiotic.

A lot can happen between now and the next offseason. It is premature for this nonsense.

Not directed at you Deuce, but at the ESPN phonies who feed players' egos full of what is essentially ****.

[Scutt]

We need to start lowering the offer weekly. If he is that stupid to take the QO, which is so low because of missing so many games, then who needs another moron on the team?

I understand the anger here, but this is not a very good negotiating tactic. The Suns need to continue to high road and leave things as they are. There are only a few misguided media types who align themselves with Bledsoe and even then they acknowledge that the Suns' offer is a reasonable market based offer for this accomplishments.

Taking $$ off the table will make the Suns appear to be bullies. Do not what this.

Why is my comment thought of as "angry"?

I'm not angry, I just think if we lowered the deal slightly, every week, it will cause this to come to a close. I really don't think it makes us look like bullies. I think a 4/$46 offer is still fair for a guy that only played a half of a season, and put up less than a player on the squad making almost half his starting salary.

I just don't think adding any money would go over well for future negotiations.

Maybe it is because you are basically saying that you think Eric Bledsoe is being a stupid moron? That strikes me as angry and bitter...

[Sunsdeuce]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/azsports/status/494186229206765568[/tweet]
I agree, he is going to get max. Unlike Bledsoe, goran is a max player.

Aaah! another ESPN "insider" attempting to tell others how to act. We do not even need contract negotiations any more - just get a few stats from Kevin Pelton and his interpretation and everyone can avoid those pesky contract negotiations. Idiotic.

A lot can happen between now and the next offseason. It
is premature for this nonsense.
Not directed at you Deuce, but at the ESPN phonies who fee players' egos full of what is essentially ****.

I agree. I failed to actually read the article prior to posting it.


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[letsgosuns]

As much as I hate to say it, you have to dramatically overpay players to get them. It is very hard to have a great value contract in the NBA and so many players are overpaid. There are maybe a handful of max players in the league. Lebron, Durant, Carmelo, and some of the other guys that make the All NBA teams. Then the rest that want max are players with huge egos who massively overvalue themselves. The next group of players to get max are the ones that get it because a team is so desperate to sign or keep them. A perfect example is Chris Bosh. He got the full max from Miami. Now look at his stats: 16 points and 7 rebounds during the regular season. In the finals he averaged 14 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 0.2 blocks, and 1 steal. Are those numbers max worthy? No way in hell. Not even close. Plus he is 30 years old. When he is 33-35, he is going to be making close to 25 million dollars a year. That contract is outrageous.

Now look at Bledsoe. The main thing keeping him from a max deal is his health. Kyrie Irving got max from Cleveland and I do not think he is any better than Bledsoe. I actually like Bledsoe more than him. However Bledsoe has only had half a good season in his career and two knee surgeries. Not nearly enough of a body of work to justify the contract he wants. Plus those injuries scare teams away.

In addition, some ESPN insider is claiming that Dragic is a max player now. Okay, so I guess in order to become a max player all you need is one really good season and you are worth it. I completely disagree. While Dragic did have a very good year and make third team all NBA, he did not make the all star team and did not even lead his team to the playoffs. I am not blaming him, but do you guys see Dragic as a superstar? I am talking on the level of Durant or Lebron, because I sure do not. And I think paying players that are only really good enormous contracts sets your team back for years. Sure maybe you make the playoffs or even get to the second round, but championship caliber, not a chance. There are truly only a couple of teams every year that have a legitimate chance to win the title and if you are not one of them, you are in the same boat as everyone else. So why should the Suns pay huge amounts of money to stay in the same boat. It is not worth it.

[RunDogGun]

I understand the anger here, but this is not a very good negotiating tactic. The Suns need to continue to high road and leave things as they are. There are only a few misguided media types who align themselves with Bledsoe and even then they acknowledge that the Suns' offer is a reasonable market based offer for this accomplishments.

Taking $$ off the table will make the Suns appear to be bullies. Do not what this.

Why is my comment thought of as "angry"?

I'm not angry, I just think if we lowered the deal slightly, every week, it will cause this to come to a close. I really don't think it makes us look like bullies. I think a 4/$46 offer is still fair for a guy that only played a half of a season, and put up less than a player on the squad making almost half his starting salary.

I just don't think adding any money would go over well for future negotiations.

Maybe it is because you are basically saying that you think Eric Bledsoe is being a stupid moron? That strikes me as angry and bitter...

Bitter? Dude, don't quote me anymore. I said "if" he takes the QO, has he taken it yet? I also said that PJ drinking and driving was a "moron" move. Do you think I'm angry and bitter about PJ?

[gaspar]

I wonder what the biggest contract anyone has gotten on a second contract when they hadn't even started at least half a season.

Harden signed a 5-year max extension with the Rockets after starting just 7 games in 3 years. T-Mac, a backup in Toronto, signed a $68M contract with the Magic.