International Hoops thread

[dlts20]

I dvr'd it because I thought they were going to scrimmage but I just skimmed through it and I must say that Wall looked huge. I think some had to do with the uni's but even still he looked huge. Looked alot bigger then all the guards including a stoked Rose. Looked almost like the biggest player there p4p or inch for inch. I couldnt tell though if he was yoked or more on the fatter side. It could go either way. Either he's yoked which is great since he should be super physical this year or he's more on the overweight side because they told him to basically take a ton of time off after the long season in which he played every game. If thats the case then I think no way he makes the team because he's probably out of shape & rusty anyways

[stevemcqueen1]

I didn't realize all of the games for Group Play were on consecutive days. Five games in five days means the bench will get a lot of minutes even though the games are shorter.

Luckily, our group looks pretty easy and we might even be able to play the bench most of the second halves. But regardless, I think a few things are necessitated by the schedule:

- They're going to actually have to rest Durant. Paul George is the most natural spell for Durant IMO, I think we'll have to find lineups that don't feature both at the same time.

- If George gets a lot of minutes as a small ball four, then that means we'll probably be super small and have to use our natural SGs at SF the whole time. I bet Curry plays almost all of his minutes at SG. Same for Lillard if he makes the team. Wall is hurt by being the only PG aside from Rose (a lock to make it IMO) not really able to play SG too.

- Can't play both Davis and Cousins at the same time. No two true big line ups during group play unless we take Faried. Cousins is going to be a really critical part of our success, which probably makes everyone nervous. But he does have a FIBA friendly game IMO if he can adjust to the goal tending rules and keep from getting technicals.

The only time I think we'd need to actually play a two big line up would be a hypothetical match against Spain though.

- If Cousins is going to be a critical part of the team, that's an edge for Wall IMO. They're a pretty potent package. And Wall is good at steadying Cousins.

[theboomking]

Any updates on how Wall played?

I would also worry a bit about Wall bulking up, even if it is all muscle. He may finish better through contact, but I don't think it would help his quickness in half court sets and might affect his defensive quickness even more so, perhaps making guarding smaller, quicker PG's a little more difficult.

[Kanyewest]

Interview from Wall and Beal. Apparently, Wall is a better ball handler than Cousins and Beal is a better jump shooter than Cousins.
http://www.monumentalnetwork.com/videos ... ll-7-28-14

[tweet]https://twitter.com/stevecarprj/status/494237221906419712[/tweet]

[stevemcqueen1]

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/

From the story about yesterday's scrimmage:

As noted in today’s story about Durant and George, those two and Davis are locks to start for this team. I’d guess that Rose looks really good (like 90/10) to start at point guard and Harden is the most likely starter (65/35) at the two. Curry is the other possible starter at either guard position.

Outside of those six, which were assumed locks before camp began, it’s really hard to say that anybody else is definitely on the roster. Colangelo told Sam Amick of USA Today that it would be hard to carry more than two “pure points.” In the same quote, Colangelo says that Rose, Irving and Wall are points.

(Though we saw Curry on the floor without one of the other point guards for the first time on Wednesday, he’s definitely more of a two than a one on this roster. Colangelo calls Lillard “a tweener.”)

Rose is in, so it sounds like one roster spot will come down to Irving and Wall. Wall is the better defender, the better passer and, seemingly, the better fit. But Irving brings better shooting and a history with Krzyzewski.

So basically, we'll know why when Irving makes the team over Wall.

[stevemcqueen1]

Starting five: Rose, Harden, George, Durant, Davis

Last seven spots, I would take: Curry, Wall, Beal, Thompson, Cousins, Lillard, and probably Faried over Drummond.

I'll rotate all 12 players in during group play and probably go with a 50-50 minute split between the starters and bench. I'd use our PG and wing depth and run a full court press.

I get more than the sum of my parts with a Wall, Beal, Cousins line up. Likewise with Curry and Thompson. I like that Beal and Thompson are elite shooters that can play defense and can play up at SF when I have to rest George or Durant.

And I don't feel good about going in with just Rose frankly. We'd be fools to rely on him with no back up plan. IMO Wall is a must for this reason alone.

For Faried versus Drummond, I take the one who seems better adjusted to FIBA rules. If one shows a knack for the goal tend rule in particular, I take him. But without knowing that, I lean towards Faried because he can run the floor with Wall and play farther from the basket on offense.

Lillard has to play defense though. If he's significantly outplayed on defense by DeRozan, I probably leave him off. I don't want to go with just Wall, Rose, and Curry as my PG options, I'd like to have Lillard too. But if he can't full court press the way I want to, then he's a questionable addition.

[Kanyewest]

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/

From the story about yesterday's scrimmage:

As noted in today’s story about Durant and George, those two and Davis are locks to start for this team. I’d guess that Rose looks really good (like 90/10) to start at point guard and Harden is the most likely starter (65/35) at the two. Curry is the other possible starter at either guard position.

Outside of those six, which were assumed locks before camp began, it’s really hard to say that anybody else is definitely on the roster. Colangelo told Sam Amick of USA Today that it would be hard to carry more than two “pure points.” In the same quote, Colangelo says that Rose, Irving and Wall are points.

(Though we saw Curry on the floor without one of the other point guards for the first time on Wednesday, he’s definitely more of a two than a one on this roster. Colangelo calls Lillard “a tweener.”)

Rose is in, so it sounds like one roster spot will come down to Irving and Wall. Wall is the better defender, the better passer and, seemingly, the better fit. But Irving brings better shooting and a history with Krzyzewski.

So basically, we'll know why when Irving makes the team over Wall.

If Curry and Lillard are considered 2s this helps Wall's chances to make the team but it really hurts Beal's odds.

[fishercob]

It would seem to me that the best thing Wall has going for him is that Lillard is basically just the better version of Kyrie. He was better than Irving across the board this past season.

So if you're the USAB brass -- and I doubt K is making this decision unilaterally -- would you rather have a redundant player like Irving, or a guy like Wall who brings an entirely different dimension with his speed and ability to create havoc.

Give me
Rose, Curry, George, Durant, Davis, Harden
Wall, Beal, Lillard, Korver, Faried, Cousins

[pancakes3]

The facile argument against that is that Rose and Wall are equally similar. The bigger overall argument is that there are 3 hyper-talented guys who can play PG in distinctive styles (Rose, Curry, Lillard) and there really isn't room for Wall. Beal plays at a thinner position so he might get a pass.

I think Wall's only saving grace is that he's the best out of all the guards in playing selfless, John Stockton - Jason Kidd - Rajon Rondo - style basketball. Wall is by a good margin the most selfless and pure point in Vegas right now.

[dlts20]

The facile argument against that is that Rose and Wall are equally similar. The bigger overall argument is that there are 3 hyper-talented guys who can play PG in distinctive styles (Rose, Curry, Lillard) and there really isn't room for Wall. Beal plays at a thinner position so he might get a pass.

I think Wall's only saving grace is that he's the best out of all the guards in playing selfless, John Stockton - Jason Kidd - Rajon Rondo - style basketball. Wall is by a good margin the most selfless and pure point in Vegas right now.

Im not sure Im clear on your point. Do you think those 3 guys are all clearly better than Wall because I dont think Lillard is at all

[pancakes3]

I think those 3 are better choices for Team USA - yes. Well, not Rose. I have no idea how Rose is going to turn out and if I were running things, I'd pick Wall over Rose [and Irving] but as far as Curry and Lillard go? Yeah. I think those two are better solely because they can shoot the hell out of the ball. Wall might get a boost in 3 point shooting but not as much as you'd think. The corner 3 is about 1.5 feet closer but the head-on 3 is closer by only 3-4 inches.

[TGW]

I'm hearing some rumors that mason plumlee is going to make the team over demarcus cousins. Not surprising....plumlee plays a better team oriented game than the selfish cousins.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[dlts20]

I think those 3 are better choices for Team USA - yes. Well, not Rose. I have no idea how Rose is going to turn out and if I were running things, I'd pick Wall over Rose [and Irving] but as far as Curry and Lillard go? Yeah. I think those two are better solely because they can shoot the hell out of the ball. Wall might get a boost in 3 point shooting but not as much as you'd think. The corner 3 is about 1.5 feet closer but the head-on 3 is closer by only 3-4 inches.

ok thats fine. I thought you were talking just about the NBA and saying that those guys are clearly better players

[stevemcqueen1]

I think those 3 are better choices for Team USA - yes. Well, not Rose. I have no idea how Rose is going to turn out and if I were running things, I'd pick Wall over Rose [and Irving] but as far as Curry and Lillard go? Yeah. I think those two are better solely because they can shoot the hell out of the ball. Wall might get a boost in 3 point shooting but not as much as you'd think. The corner 3 is about 1.5 feet closer but the head-on 3 is closer by only 3-4 inches.

I thought it was the other way around. The international three is 22 feet from the top of the key and the corners. It's the top of the key three that's over a foot closer.

[stevemcqueen1]

Wall's a better choice for team USA than Irving or Lillard. Wall actually shot far better on catch and shoot threes than Irving this year. And he shot for a similar number of made threes at a similar percentage overall.

He's a world's better defender and passer than Irving and he can come off the bench and push the tempo better than Irving. The defense alone should be why Wall would make it over Irving. Wall can credibly guard 2s in line ups with Curry and Irving can't. And if they want to full court press, Wall is a much better option than Irving.

[fishercob]

The facile argument against that is that Rose and Wall are equally similar. The bigger overall argument is that there are 3 hyper-talented guys who can play PG in distinctive styles (Rose, Curry, Lillard) and there really isn't room for Wall. Beal plays at a thinner position so he might get a pass.

I think Wall's only saving grace is that he's the best out of all the guards in playing selfless, John Stockton - Jason Kidd - Rajon Rondo - style basketball. Wall is by a good margin the most selfless and pure point in Vegas right now.

I don't agree with the Lillard:Irving, Rose:Wall analogy. Wall is a superior passer to Rose, and you allude to as much. Lillard is better than Irving at basically everything Irving is good at but.

But even if I did agree with that as an underlying premise, I take Wall over Kyrie because Rose has been so injured over the past couple of seasons.

There are lots of guys on this roster who can do what Kyrie does -- scorer from the perimeter and offer bounce. But K has a history of having guys on the team whose role itis to pick up full court, disrupt, and play with max energy or 8-10 mpg. Rose and Westbrook both played that role before. John is best suited to do so now.

F Kyrie.

[hands11]

Wall's a better choice for team USA than Irving or Lillard. Wall actually shot far better on catch and shoot threes than Irving this year. And he shot for a similar number of made threes at a similar percentage overall.

He's a world's better defender and passer than Irving and he can come off the bench and push the tempo better than Irving. The defense alone should be why Wall would make it over Irving. Wall can credibly guard 2s in line ups with Curry and Irving can't. And if they want to full court press, Wall is a much better option than Irving.

Wall beating either of those two out would be huge cred builder.

Sports news would be all over that. Wall still hasn't made it to the elite elite conversation. This could help take him there.

He is the move well rounded skilled player.


http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... las-vegas/


USA Basketball Showcase that will be held Friday, 6 p.m. (PDT) at the Thomas & Mack Center in Las Vegas.

The USA White Team, led by 2012 Olympic gold medalists Kevin Durant (Oklahoma City Thunder) and James Harden (Houston Rockets)

USA White Team, coach by USA assistant coach and Chicago Bulls head coach Tom Thibodeau, includes Bradley Beal (Washington Wizards); DeMarcus Cousins (Sacramento Kings); Andre Drummond (Detroit Pistons); Durant; Harden; Kyrie Irving (Cleveland Cavaliers); Damian Lillard (Portland Trail Blazers); Paul Millsap (Atlanta Hawks); Chandler Parsons (Dallas Mavericks); and Klay Thompson (Golden State Warriors).

[Induveca]

It would seem to me that the best thing Wall has going for him is that Lillard is basically just the better version of Kyrie. He was better than Irving across the board this past season.

So if you're the USAB brass -- and I doubt K is making this decision unilaterally -- would you rather have a redundant player like Irving, or a guy like Wall who brings an entirely different dimension with his speed and ability to create havoc.

Give me
Rose, Curry, George, Durant, Davis, Harden
Wall, Beal, Lillard, Korver, Faried, Cousins

Being completely honest, despite my Wiz fandom.....I would take Irving due to his shooting. Both Irving and Wall will run circles around that level of competition and find open guys.

When teams start doubling Davis Irving's outside shot is too valuable.

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

[Ruzious]

Wall's a better choice for team USA than Irving or Lillard. Wall actually shot far better on catch and shoot threes than Irving this year. And he shot for a similar number of made threes at a similar percentage overall.

He's a world's better defender and passer than Irving and he can come off the bench and push the tempo better than Irving. The defense alone should be why Wall would make it over Irving. Wall can credibly guard 2s in line ups with Curry and Irving can't. And if they want to full court press, Wall is a much better option than Irving.

I gotta admit, if I was coaching the US team in international play, I'd probably play Curry and Irving a lot together. They'll give up some, but offensively - how do you stop them? They shoot 3's like they're layups, and they both pass and handle well. Their presence opens up the middle for Davis and all the forwards. And international guards aren't generally going to take advantage of their lack of strength.

[stevemcqueen1]

Wall's a better choice for team USA than Irving or Lillard. Wall actually shot far better on catch and shoot threes than Irving this year. And he shot for a similar number of made threes at a similar percentage overall.

He's a world's better defender and passer than Irving and he can come off the bench and push the tempo better than Irving. The defense alone should be why Wall would make it over Irving. Wall can credibly guard 2s in line ups with Curry and Irving can't. And if they want to full court press, Wall is a much better option than Irving.

I gotta admit, if I was coaching the US team in international play, I'd probably play Curry and Irving a lot together. They'll give up some, but offensively - how do you stop them? They shoot 3's like they're layups, and they both pass and handle well. Their presence opens up the middle for Davis and all the forwards. And international guards aren't generally going to take advantage of their lack of strength.

Irving didn't shoot better than Wall last year though. The only part of the floor Irving was better from was 3-10 feet.

Wall actually shot way better than Irving in catch and shoot threes too. Wall shot above 40 % on those. If you're looking for someone to be able to play off the ball as a 3 pt shooter, Wall can handle it. And he's a better slasher than Irving. And a better defender. And a better passer. And he's stronger and more durable.

There is really no good reason to take Irving over Wall except that Irving played for Coach K at Duke. So again, there is really no good reason to take Irving over Wall.