NBA looking to change Draft Lottery; 76ers say no

[matt6715]

The NBA is a league driven by star power. Making it less probable for the worst team(s) to by get better by drafting the best available player(s) should only further polarize rosters between teams with talent and those without.

If you are the commissioner of the NBA and believe that the league is benefited by this - sure go ahead. But you can't just implement change the rules in the middle of the game. Teams made draft decisions in 2014 and signed free agents with the expectation that the league would continue to follow an established set of rules.
Imagine you are playing poker, you've decided to play a certain hand only because you know your opponent will fold on the River. Now after investing most of your chips on this bluff on the turn your opponents suspect you may be bluffing and decide that effective immediately there will be a rule change and no more river cards/betting will be allowed in poker. If you want to change the rules before the next hand begins, thats fine - but jumping the shark after draft/free agency is entirely unfair.

THIS

[Sixersftw]

No one wants to see a team not even try. Its one thing to try and fail, but its only so much you can tank.

So you mean it would be bad if we were in the upper half of the lotto 3 years in a row? You mean like OKC or LAC...

How are they not trying? Does the team play 4 on 5? Is MCW reading his kindle on the bench? would spending money on crappy FA's, that at best make us a 10th seed, be trying? We are trying but you can't rush it when you start at ground 0.

Once again I ask, for a team in our position what constitutes legitimately trying if your end goal is a championship contending squad? Tying up our cap w/ mediocre FA? Try to trade for a star (then people would complain about bought not built... yawn)?

[Vides990]

No one cares if the media rips the Sixers. The point is that the league didn't change the rules as a result of what the Spurs did and all the other teams mentioned. Doesn't change the fact that your point about Sean Elliott is ludicrous.

Thats because they were still trying to compete in general. The Sixers unforunately are not. The point about Sean Elliott was made because the poster I quoted made it seem as if Elliott was a 25 yr old up and coming all-star when in reality he was 12 months away from being done, its a called correcting perspective.

How is purposely holding out your best players trying to compete in general? And its not called correcting perspective, its called 20/20 hindsight, which doesn't exist in the real world.

Because the Spurs didnt go into the season with a roster filled of players that don't belong in the NBA. Keeping Robinson out for 1.5 months (knowing he'll play next yr, and played the yr before) is different then the Sixers relying on someone like Henry Sims, year in year out.

It is correcting perspective when the person thinks in 1997 Elliott was an up and comer, no one thought that then, his skills were already declining, obviously they didn't know about the kidney issue but he wasnt a young up and coming player, my god how bad is your reading comprehension.

[Snotbubbles]

This is effing hilarious, you call someone clueless yet in 1997 Elliot was 29, while Robinson was 32 and both were coming off the worst injuries of their careers. While Elliott was an all-star in 1996 he was diminishing quickly and was about to be blessed with his horrible kidney condition while Robinsons best days were behind him as well. Know what the heck you're talking about before trying to correct someone else.

Wow. I mean just wow. How does the fact that Sean Elliott was unknowingly going to be diagnosed with a kidney condition a couple years later have any impact on the fact that the Spurs tanked the 96-97 season?

Did they go into the season planning to tank? Let me answer that for you, NO. They made that decision when their team was decimated by injuries. They did hold Robinson out and not let him return for the last month, month and half of the season, and guess what happened, the media ripped them apart for it.
Edit, it did work because they got Duncan, but there's no Timmy coming in 2015.

That's ok. They got Olajuwon this year.

[d0nk]

Beyond the Sixers, aren't there dozens of trades involving potential lottery picks where teams engaged in those trades under the expectation that particular picks were worth value X and now were are going to alter those values after the fact? Seems like something that should be announced at least 3-4 in advance of beginning.

[Bro Johnson]

Wouldn't mind seeing the Sixers get slammed... They've basically done everything they can but literally say "We are tanking" to let the world know they are tanking...

[Vides990]

I don't understand why everyone accuses Philadelphia of tanking, they went BPA with both of their high picks, and Saric (IMO) was BPA as well.

Because they have all of this unused cap space - except no one can ever say what they realistically should do with it.

I've said it plenty of times, they should sign Bledsoe to a 3 yr 45 mill deal. It doesn't affect the team long term while adding a very talented piece to the team that also fits, no brainer imo.

[OrlandoNed]

I'm actually just kind of in awe of the lengths the Sixers are going to be an embarrassing on court product. The Cavs tanked the past few years (not last year, but still). The Sixers are almost bad basketball as performance art. It's incredible.

I know, it's crazy how committed the Sixers are to sucking ass. I understand their logic, but man they are completely unashamed of putting out the most embarrassing collection of players out on the floor. Last year was such an ugly intentional train wreck of NBA basketball. I admire their commitment to the plan however long they plan on tanking.

I can't believe anybody could possibly be jealous of the Sixers tank. Yes, Sixer fans we get you are sucking on purpose but nobody is going to pat you on the back for it. Yeah, your plan might work out and you might be good someday but don't act like you've accomplished anything yet. Your team's plan has no guarantee of being successful, so if it does, congrats. If not, sucks to be you guys. Your plan is very high-risk, high-reward. If Embiid or Noel end up being busts due to injuries or not being any good or MCW is just empty stats or Saric never comes over or is any good or none of your hundreds of second round picks will turn out to be anything special, nobody is going to be jealous of your Sixers.

Why change the draft rules if what the Sixers are doins is such a high-risk, high-reward proposition that teams would have to be committed to lost profits for multiple seasons to even try to attempt. That in itself would be a bigger deterrent than changing the draft.

The Sixers are still a part of the NBA. The league doesn't want any of their 30 teams to be unwatchable and potentially unprofitable. They want every team to at least attempt to put a competitive team on the floor every night. The Sixers are not only risking their potential profitability but they are risking hurting the leagues profitability. Yes, the Sixers make up just 1/30 of the teams in the league, but the league is a business and any smart business wants to be as profitable as possible.

It's like McDonalds has 30 franchises and the Philly franchise wants to be unprofitable for 6 years on the 50/50 chance be profitable in the future. If the Philly franchise is not going to be making McD's the most money possible, that franchise would be closed down. But the NBA business can't just close down the Sixer franchise, so what they have to do is encourage the Sixers to try to be profitable. Might not be the best analogy, but it's the best I could think of.

[BullyKing]

Thats because they were still trying to compete in general. The Sixers unforunately are not. The point about Sean Elliott was made because the poster I quoted made it seem as if Elliott was a 25 yr old up and coming all-star when in reality he was 12 months away from being done, its a called correcting perspective.

How is purposely holding out your best players trying to compete in general? And its not called correcting perspective, its called 20/20 hindsight, which doesn't exist in the real world.

Because the Spurs didnt go into the season with a roster filled of players that don't belong in the NBA. Keeping Robinson out for 1.5 months (knowing he'll play next yr, and played the yr before) is different then the Sixers relying on someone like Henry Sims, year in year out.

It is correcting perspective when the person thinks in 1997 Elliott was an up and comer, no one thought that then, his skills were already declining, obviously they didn't know about the kidney issue but he wasnt a young up and coming player, my god how bad is your reading comprehension.

Oh ok, got it now. Tanking is only where you do it before the season. Although some would say purposefully losing games (like Minny benching Garnett or the Celtics) is much worse than just not having the horses to begin with. And please, it has nothing to do with reading comprehension but rather you being caught spewing nonsense. I couldn't care less about you trying to insult my intelligence. I am quite confident in comparing our respective capabilities there.

[Mik317]

I don't understand why everyone accuses Philadelphia of tanking, they went BPA with both of their high picks, and Saric (IMO) was BPA as well.

Because they have all of this unused cap space - except no one can ever say what they realistically should do with it.

I've said it plenty of times, they should sign Bledsoe to a 3 yr 45 mill deal. It doesn't affect the team long term while adding a very talented piece to the team that also fits, no brainer imo.

and the Suns would match that.

[Vides990]

Because they have all of this unused cap space - except no one can ever say what they realistically should do with it.

I've said it plenty of times, they should sign Bledsoe to a 3 yr 45 mill deal. It doesn't affect the team long term while adding a very talented piece to the team that also fits, no brainer imo.

and the Suns would match that.

I'm not sure they would (they'd then have to give Goran a 15 mill+ per yr deal) but even if they do, what's wrong with trying?

[BullyKing]

I know, it's crazy how committed the Sixers are to sucking ass. I understand their logic, but man they are completely unashamed of putting out the most embarrassing collection of players out on the floor. Last year was such an ugly intentional train wreck of NBA basketball. I admire their commitment to the plan however long they plan on tanking.

I can't believe anybody could possibly be jealous of the Sixers tank. Yes, Sixer fans we get you are sucking on purpose but nobody is going to pat you on the back for it. Yeah, your plan might work out and you might be good someday but don't act like you've accomplished anything yet. Your team's plan has no guarantee of being successful, so if it does, congrats. If not, sucks to be you guys. Your plan is very high-risk, high-reward. If Embiid or Noel end up being busts due to injuries or not being any good or MCW is just empty stats or Saric never comes over or is any good or none of your hundreds of second round picks will turn out to be anything special, nobody is going to be jealous of your Sixers.

Why change the draft rules if what the Sixers are doins is such a high-risk, high-reward proposition that teams would have to be committed to lost profits for multiple seasons to even try to attempt. That in itself would be a bigger deterrent than changing the draft.

The Sixers are still a part of the NBA. The league doesn't want any of their 30 teams to be unwatchable and potentially unprofitable. They want every team to at least attempt to put a competitive team on the floor every night. The Sixers are not only risking their potential profitability but they are risking hurting the leagues profitability. Yes, the Sixers make up just 1/30 of the teams in the league, but the league is a business and any smart business wants to be as profitable as possible.

It's like McDonalds has 30 franchises and the Philly franchise wants to be unprofitable for 6 years on the 50/50 chance be profitable in the future. If the Philly franchise is not going to be making McD's the most money possible, that franchise would be closed down. But the NBA business can't just close down the Sixer franchise, so what they have to do is encourage the Sixers to try to be profitable. Might not be the best analogy, but it's the best I could think of.

See, I actually think this is a somewhat fair point in that, for example, someone who has season tickets to watch a good team might not like the fact that they have to pay for scrimmages against the Sixers also. But don't you think the solution they should be going for is trying to make it more realistic for teams to get better as opposed to putting up roadblocks to the one road there is? I don't see how you fault the Sixers for trying to become something more than a more competitive Washington Generals for the rest of the league (in that they put up a nice fight but never really have a chance at winning).

[d0nk]

I really don't understand everyones obsession with the 76ers tanking. I get how some 76er fans can be bummed out that the team will not be too interesting this year and it seems like forever since we watched meaningful basketball.

But if you are not a 76er fan - WHY DO YOU CARE?

1) If you believe they are making mistakes in how to build a franchise (and you are NOT a 76er fan) - then whatever players they haven't signed / selected / traded for are more available for your team. This increases your teams position and thus should make you joyful.

2) If you are concerned they are gaming the system and have been unfairly rewarded for doing so - this is based on 1 year. They tanked just one season thus far. For that they only got the #3 pick. Again, how does this hurt you?

As long as 76ers ownership is willing to sacrifice short term returns for long term hopes and their fans are willing to look up 2016 NBA mock drafts and wear Sam Hinkie T-shirts - let it be...

[GallagherArt]

I don't understand why everyone accuses Philadelphia of tanking, they went BPA with both of their high picks, and Saric (IMO) was BPA as well.

Because they have all of this unused cap space - except no one can ever say what they realistically should do with it.

I've said it plenty of times, they should sign Bledsoe to a 3 yr 45 mill deal. It doesn't affect the team long term while adding a very talented piece to the team that also fits, no brainer imo.

We have a PG, we don't need to pay handsomely for another.

[kookie_819]

Read through the thread, I can't believe some Sixers fans think that people are actually jealous of their team...

On topic: I actually think the Sixers are right for fighting the potential changes to the lottery system. They definitely should since changing it will harm the way they've been building their team.

[Mik317]

I've said it plenty of times, they should sign Bledsoe to a 3 yr 45 mill deal. It doesn't affect the team long term while adding a very talented piece to the team that also fits, no brainer imo.

and the Suns would match that.

I'm not sure they would (they'd then have to give Goran a 15 mill+ per yr deal) but even if they do, what's wrong with trying?

So if we tried ot sign Bledsoe, they matched...would all of our tanking sins be absolved?

Heres the thing about FA.

No one of worth is walking through those doors (If we had of Kept Jrue, Turner, and Hawes...this would be the case too BTW). So you are left with oversigning mid-tier dudes and hoping they pan out into stars. I can't think of many times that has worked out for someone.

Like I have said throughout all of this noise about tanking...if there was a better choice the franchise could have made, I am all ears...however no matter what choice they made, there is risks involved. Hinkie's Tankapalooza could easily backfire (via injuries, not getting the best pick, dudes just not being good)...very easily, however I do wish people would understand that it is just simply another method to build a team..one that we haven't chosen and honestly not many teams are capable of doing (Most teams owners wouldn't stand for it...Josh Harris is on board 100%, most teams don't have the ability to just empty up the board like we do due to having awful contracts..we have/had none). We were just in a special position to try it out. and well we are doing it...I understand you don't want to praise us for being ass..but I do wish people would stop with the hatred we seem to get.

We tried staying the Course with late draft picks..didn't work out.
We tried cashing in with Bynum...it didn't work out.
We for some reason tried a win now move...lol.

We are now trying to the tanking route...who knows how it ends.

But it is worth a try, right?

If you can give me a better solution from the Jrue years, then I'm all ears...I just don't see one better than the choice we made (and I'm not even all happy about the Embiid and Saric draft)

[BullyKing]

Read through the thread, I can't believe some Sixers fans think that people are actually jealous of their team...

On topic: I actually think the Sixers are right for fighting the potential changes to the lottery system. They definitely should since changing it will harm the way they've been building their team.

I'm not one of those people who think the league is jealous of the Sixers by any means but I don't see why its so far fetched. I have always loved prospects and watching young players develop. For someone like me, this is much more exciting than watching a much better team of veterans getting bounced in the early playoffs. The idea of building a team with all young and up-and-comings players is great from my perspective. So while I don't think people are necessarily jealous, I wouldn't be shocked to see a fan of say, the Hawks or Nuggets, wish their team was emulating the Sixers strategy.

[GallagherArt]

Read through the thread, I can't believe some Sixers fans think that people are actually jealous of their team...

On topic: I actually think the Sixers are right for fighting the potential changes to the lottery system. They definitely should since changing it will harm the way they've been building their team.

I don't believe that they're jealous, they just don't want to see another team succeed, which is fine. I don't want to see other teams succeed either lol.

[kookie_819]

By the way, for all the perceived Sixers "hate", I don't think it's that much about they way in which the Sixers have been tanking. I think most people agree that the best way to build a team is through high draft picks.

IMO, the biggest reason for the "hate" is how Hinkie is being praised for all of his moves and how some Sixers fans seem to assume that this rebuild is guaranteed to pan out. Again IMO, the Sixers' rebuild is the riskiest plan I've ever seen. They got a good pick with MCW, but their other three cornerstone players are: 1) a raw PF who missed all of his rookie year with a torn ACL, 2) a center with a bad back + bad foot (which are the two worst injuries that a big man can have), and 3) a draft-and-stash player who's not coming to the NBA for another two years, who may not even come at all.

Yes, there's a chance that all of it works out for the Sixers, but unlike the other teams who are trying to rebuild through the draft, there's a much greater chance of missing out. I just don't think Hinkie deserves the praise that he's been getting, especially since he's lost quite a few trades in getting rid of the likes of Hawes and Turner (the only good trade thus far is the Jrue Holiday trade... and that remains to be seen)

[majortom71]

I am very much against tanking and would propose a change to the draft system in the future, however I don't like what is being done by the league regarding this.

Here are some key points I will make:
1. If any change happens to the drafting system, there should be a 1-2 year buffer after the announcement is made. This is unfair to teams who already followed through with their plans.
2. The proposed idea for the draft change by the NBA is not that good. This will not solve the tanking issue. Why you ask? well, if you are the worst team after the RS than at worst you can get the 4th pick so it would still be in a teams best interest to tank.
3. Any team that is the worst in the league, whether on purpose or not, will have a slower turnaround than other teams that are much better but still in the draft. This can make it very hard for teams to rebound based on drafting talent.

Now of course drafting positions does not guarantee the best player, there have been plenty of top picks busts and plenty of great players selected late. But all things equal this is still not a good idea.

I think the lotto system should change but the current plan is not good.