Wall vs. Kyrie for the last pg spot according to USA Today

nuposse04 · Post #261 » by **nuposse04** » Sat Aug 2, 2014 3:39 pm

eltercero wrote:Magically, all the John Wall supporters have suddenly disappeared...

Nope still here, one poor showing in a scrimmage doesn't change the body of work that is, Wall>Irving. Kudos for Irving to play as well as he did but if you really think these scrimmages matter then I have bad news for you. Coaches are going off what they see in practice. If Irving FITS what they want with his showing in practice and in the film tape, then by all means he should be the guy they add.

Mumbles · Post #262 » by **Mumbles** » Sat Aug 2, 2014 3:46 pm

smh at Wiz fans in this thread attempting to make it seem like Wall is like 5 times better than Kyrie, he's not. They are both elite young talents. But Kyrie ain't getting cut from this team, he's the future of USA basketball at the lead guard position...the next CP3...a true point guard who can score.

Illmatic12 · Post #263 » by **Illmatic12** » Sat Aug 2, 2014 3:59 pm

ManualRam wrote:wall looked like he was thinking too much and was playing in a "mode" instead of just playing his game.

This, he looked mad uncomfortable and couldn't build any rhythm/chemistry with the players he was playing with.

deneem4 · Post #264 » by **deneem4** » Sat Aug 2, 2014 4:18 pm

Wall is the better pg...period...
irving and Lillard ceiling is Curry
wall ceiling is westbrook/rose

Wall has the scoring touch...he showed that a yr ago...jus have to do that with quality teammates

BayInferno · Post #265 » by **BayInferno** » Sat Aug 2, 2014 9:42 pm

It amazes me how Cavs fans refuse to accept that there's PG's that are on Kyrie's level

will · Post #266 » by **will** » Sat Aug 2, 2014 9:49 pm

For the international game, take Kyrie. He can knock down shots.

JonFromVA · Post #267 » by **JonFromVA** » Sat Aug 2, 2014 10:03 pm

I wouldn't want Kyrie defending a lot of SGs, but there's nothing about Curry or Lillard that make them better SGs offensively. Kyrie did a nice job facilitating for the blue squad, though, but if they need him to light things up on or off the ball ... he can do that too.

If Kyrie demonstrates he can bring the ball up, initiate plays, and distribute ... and still be an extreme offensive threat when needed, I'm not sure why he wouldn't start. Rose is great, but there are 4 other stars on the floor who want their touches. There isn't a Jason Kidd on the roster, but the question is ... who's going to try?

Not sure why, but Wall just hasn't played well when he's had the chance with the National team.

shukle · Post #268 » by **shukle** » Sat Aug 2, 2014 10:15 pm

Cavs fan here, so biased but I try not to be.

Irving is better than curry and wall right now, for sure. He has more talent, but is immature.

How ever, Irving is the best pg prospect. He has maybe the best handles ib the league, he shoots lights out and is a great passer. He is also a goos and quick and could become a plua defender.

But he is immature, makes poor decisions and pouts.

Still, I wouldnt trade him for wall or lillard, even though they might be more productive right now

God Squad · Post #269 » by **God Squad** » Sat Aug 2, 2014 10:27 pm

From what I saw yesterday. Irving>Lilard>Wall. Wall left me unimpressed to say the least. Yes it was a scrimmage, but that doesn't change the fact the others out shined him quite a bit.

kodo · Post #270 » by **kodo** » Sat Aug 2, 2014 11:08 pm

I thought it was a bit odd to call Lillard a combo guard and Irving a pure 1.

What's holding Irving back from being a 2 (vs Curry/Lillard)? Does Irving not move well off-ball?

BieberLUV · Post #271 » by **BieberLUV** » Sat Aug 2, 2014 11:11 pm

lol @ wall

still the same bust that he is. he'll never be better than irving

irving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wall

Mbrahv0528 · Post #272 » by **Mbrahv0528** » Sat Aug 2, 2014 11:18 pm

Mumbles wrote:smh at Wiz fans in this thread attempting to make it seem like Wall is like 5 times better than Kyrie, he's not. They are both elite young talents. But Kyrie ain't getting cut from this team, he's the future of USA basketball at the lead guard position...the next CP3...a true point guard who can score.

Well no that would be Rose. Which is why he's a lock and Kyrie is in a dog fight with Wall for the last spot.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Dame Lizard · Post #273 » by **Dame Lizard** » Sat Aug 2, 2014 11:21 pm

kodo wrote:I thought it was a bit odd to call Lillard a combo guard and Irving a pure 1.

What's holding Irving back from being a 2 (vs Curry/Lillard)? Does Irving not move well off-ball?

Lillard and Curry are better shooters, especially from 3 pt range.

Irving is the better ball handler for sure over Lillard, but playing for team USA as a SG doesn't give you all that much usage on the ball, hence why shooting is more important.

Irving's much better attacking the rim, but Lillard's shown enough on defense at camp to give him a slight edge on D imo, particularly when defending SG's (which he did in Portland quite a bit when Mo Williams was running point).

Mumbles · Post #274 » by **Mumbles** » Sun Aug 3, 2014 12:01 am

Mbrahv0528 wrote:
Mumbles wrote:smh at Wiz fans in this thread attempting to make it seem like Wall is like 5 times better than Kyrie, he's not. They are both elite young talents. But Kyrie ain't getting cut from this team, he's the future of USA basketball at the lead guard position...the next CP3...a true point guard who can score.

Well no that would be Rose. Which is why he's a lock and Kyrie is in a dog fight with Wall for the last spot.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using RealGM Forums mobile app

I'll believe it when I hear Coach K or Jerry specifically say that Irving is especially fighting for a roster spot. Kyrie is a favorite of Coach K and the starting PG is not for a former MVP in D-Rose.

Mumbles · Post #275 » by **Mumbles** » Sun Aug 3, 2014 12:16 am

JonFromVA wrote:I wouldn't want Kyrie defending a lot of SGs, but there's nothing about Curry or Lillard that make them better SGs offensively. Kyrie did a nice job facilitating for the blue squad, though, but if they need him to light things up on or off the ball ... he can do that too.

If Kyrie demonstrates he can bring the ball up, initiate plays, and distribute ... and still be an extreme offensive threat when needed, I'm not sure why he wouldn't start. Rose is great, but there are 4 other stars on the floor who want their touches. There isn't a Jason Kidd on the roster, but the question is ... who's going to try?

Not sure why, but Wall just hasn't played well when he's had the chance with the National team.

I liked the floor games of all our points last night, even Wall who a couple giveaways while being unselfish. Rose was obviously hyped and it was nice to see him race to the hoop with and without the ball. Irving & Lillard displayed a pass first approach, letting the game come to them (Irving didn't even take an outside shot)

Excellent point about which guard is going to take on a pass first 'Kidd' type of role.

eltercero · Post #276 » by **eltercero** » Sun Aug 3, 2014 12:34 am

kodo wrote:I thought it was a bit odd to call Lillard a combo guard and Irving a pure 1.

What's holding Irving back from being a 2 (vs Curry/Lillard)? Does Irving not move well off-ball?

Curry and Lillard are better catch and shoot players and Irving is a better facilitator than Lillard.

deneem4 · Post #277 » by **deneem4** » Sun Aug 3, 2014 12:40 am

Irving looks good because everyone on tht team can create...that doesn't mean he's a passing guard...wall Is a passing guard and creator...he's one of the best drive and kick out guards...and knows how to hit guys in they're spots...kyrie knows how to create for himself, and anybody can pass the ball to durant, george, davis, cousins...etc

High0ctane21 · Post #278 » by **High0ctane21** » Sun Aug 3, 2014 12:42 am

shukle wrote:Cavs fan here, so biased but I try not to be.

Irving is better than curry and wall right now, for sure. He has more talent, but is immature.

How ever, Irving is the best pg prospect. He has maybe the best handles ib the league, he shoots lights out and is a great passer. He is also a goos and quick and could become a plua defender.

But he is immature, makes poor decisions and pouts.

Still, I wouldnt trade him for wall or lillard, even though they might be more productive right now

I'm a big Kyrie fan, but this is just not true. Curry is definitely the better shooter, better passer, better playmaker, and better defender. Kyrie might have a slight edge in getting into the paint and finishing. I think Wall/Kyrie is a fair comparison, but Steph Curry is on a tier above them.

mrmsix6 · Post #279 » by **mrmsix6** » Sun Aug 3, 2014 12:42 am

Kyrie Irving is the best pure point on the team and should start. Rose might be the better player if he can continue to show he's 100% recovered, but Irving is the better fit for the starting lineup. His shooting + pass first mentality on this roster gives him the nod. He's also the best ball handler on the team and should be the one initiating the offense most often. I wouldn't mind if Rose started, I just think Irving is the better fit for the team and balance.

Ultimately it won't really matter, because all of team USA's PGs are good enough to dominate the international PGs. If they plan on taking 3 "pure" PGs, I'd take Wall as the third guy and have him emulate the way Westbrook played on previous team USAs: use his athleticism to cause havoc and harass the hell out of international PGs who aren't in the same universe athletically. It's a great change of pace when that guy can come in and start picking up full court and making life hell for opposing PGs.

Regardless, it's all gravy for team USA at the guard spot.

JonFromVA · Post #280 » by **JonFromVA** » Sun Aug 3, 2014 12:42 am

eltercero wrote:
kodo wrote:I thought it was a bit odd to call Lillard a combo guard and Irving a pure 1.

What's holding Irving back from being a 2 (vs Curry/Lillard)? Does Irving not move well off-ball?

Curry and Lillard are better catch and shoot players and Irving is a better facilitator than Lillard.

I'm not sure any of them are especially good off the ball (in the Ray Allen/Rip Hamilton sense), but if you need someone to stand around out at the 3pt line and knock down an open 3, then Irving/Curry/Lillard should all be money.

Kyrie has been really good in All Star Game type situations, and while FIBA ball is certainly different, that ability to assert yourself amongst stars with minimal instruction is still vital. I think that may be what's thrown Wall for a loop. Perhaps he's just more comfortable working within the system he knows with the players he knows.