Wolstat: Cleveland overpaid and may regret dealing Wiggins

[Buffalo_Tim]

Raptors/basketball beat writer from Toronto (so there's an obvious bias... though he follows the Canadian program pretty well and knows his stuff) who sees this deal as a huge win for the Wolves.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/WolstatSun/status/497637378484617216[/tweet]

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/08/08/canadian-andrew-wiggins-going-to-timberwolves-in-major-deal-by-cavaliers

ime will tell if the Cavs made the right call in paying an extremely exorbitant price to land Love. Based on precedent, this looks like a mistake. So many questions come to mind: Who were they bidding against? Why did they pay at least three times what any previous franchise had in the same situation? Why did they speed up the quest to finally bring a title to Cleveland after so many years when other “Big Threes” proved that winning it all in the first year was extremely unlikely (though the title drought might answer that one)?

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All that said, the bottom line is Cleveland does not seem to have had a choice.

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This could be a deal both sides are happy with, but it will be far more difficult for Cleveland to feel good about it down the line. It is championship or bust for the Cavs over the next few seasons.

[Cycklops]

They were bidding against Chicago and Golden State. Love has given whatever assurances he can that he will re-up with Cleveland. And when your "Big 3" are 29, 25, and 22, you don't have only a one-year window.

[mup]

Every time Wiggins scores 10 points or more in a game, we will have to deal with this. Same thing happened when we didn't draft that Valanciunas clown. This is an unfortunate side effect of living in a city that people want to view negatively--- "Cleveland made a mistake" is a narrative that sells papers and generates clicks.

This is the first of 26,000 "should have kept Wiggins" articles. Consider the source and take it for what it's worth. Wiggins will no doubt be an all-rookie selection so these narratives will only multiply. I wanted to keep wiggins (partly because of crap like this," and think we should have held out longer, but I understand you have to break eggs to make an omelette. If the Celtics make this deal, it's considered genius.

Also, lol at this prick saying it's 3 times more what anyone else paid. Exactly how do you quantify that?


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[Niko23]

I remember when people argued that the world was flat as well.

[wallsfamily]

MUP that is why just let them talk! One issue of building through the draft is how to deal with the inevitable contract demands!!! Knowing that sooner or later conflict. After those three are locked up with new CBA and all the coming picks. Lebron, Kyrie and Love will show an offensive efficiency we have not seen in a long time. In addition the outlet passes of. Love will make Lebron on the break go to another level. Personally I love Wiggins but this is the best way to win the championship.

[wallsfamily]

Great point about the Celtics. In 57 Celtics traded two all stars for Bill Russell. Cliff Hagan and Easy Ed Mcauley. Risk reward!!!!

[SmoothKobra]

Raptors/basketball beat writer from Toronto (so there's an obvious bias... though he follows the Canadian program pretty well and knows his stuff) who sees this deal as a huge win for the Wolves.

He's right. We probably will regret it big time if Love stays, imagine if he walks?

[mup]

I remember when people argued that the world was flat as well.

Damn. How old are you, bro?


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[rjgraca]

Yeah, the Cavs overpaid for Love, but there desperation in clearing salary cap room by greatly over paying made it easy for the Wolves to wait the Cavs out and get an historic return for the bad position that Love put them in. It is time to move on from this over pay too.

[TheOUTLAW]

I was one that was consistently against the trade because of the concerns of having 3 max players. Sure, we may end up regretting the trade and I also think we paid more than we should have, but it's done now, At this point it's time to move on to the business of winning a championship. Only a loser is going to point out that a team that he doesn't cover got fleeced by another team he doesn't cover. Fact is, the Cavs increased how much better than the Raptors than they were previously. Fact is, these are the same guys who are positing that this trade is going to lead to Wiggins going back to Toronto to play. Talk about having a nonsensical agenda.

[B Mac]

If Love wasnt 25, wasnt already a top 10 player, and if he didnt give assurances that he would be here long term, then I would be concerned. Fortunately for us all three of those things are true.

You are hoping Wiggins becomes a top 10 player, and Love already is one. I dont get the hand wringing over it.

"You dont trade Jaret Wright for Pedro Martinez!"
"You dont trade Brian Giles for Curt Shilling!"

I remember hearing those statements, and believing them when I was younger. Ive grown up and realized that in sports and especially a small town market you have to capitalize on your opportunities when you can. If we win 1 championship because of this trade then it was 100% worth it to me. Championship's are so rare to come by, that they should be valued over all of the prospects in the world.

[mup]

If Love wasnt 25, wasnt already a top 10 player, and if he didnt give assurances that he would be here long term, then I would be concerned. Fortunately for us all three of those things are true.

You are hoping Wiggins becomes a top 10 player, and Love already is one. I dont get the hand wringing over it.

"You dont trade Jaret Wright for Pedro Martinez!"
"You dont trade Brian Giles for Curt Shilling!"

I remember hearing those statements, and believing them when I was younger. Ive grown up and realized that in sports and especially a small town market you have to capitalize on your opportunities when you can. If we win 1 championship because of this trade then it was 100% worth it to me. Championship's are so rare to come by, that they should be valued over all of the prospects in the world.

Your point is valid and I agree with it, but I hate the ad nauseum references to the Jaret Wright/Pedro Martinez non-trade as proof that you always trade potential for what seems to be a proven player. While it quickly became the battle cry of the "we need Love now" crowd, for every Wright/Martinez, I can give you just as many examples of trades that never should have been made. The Expos trading a young Randy Johnson plus other pieces for all-star strikeout machine Mark Langston comes to mind. Combining that with their trade of "haven't done anything" prospects Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, and Grady Sizemore for proven veteran Cy Young candidate Bartolo Colon, and the team never recovered.

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[pylb]

I remember when people argued that the world was flat as well.

Damn. How old are you, bro?


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Doesn't have to be very old:
http://www.tfes.org/

[B Mac]

If Love wasnt 25, wasnt already a top 10 player, and if he didnt give assurances that he would be here long term, then I would be concerned. Fortunately for us all three of those things are true.

You are hoping Wiggins becomes a top 10 player, and Love already is one. I dont get the hand wringing over it.

"You dont trade Jaret Wright for Pedro Martinez!"
"You dont trade Brian Giles for Curt Shilling!"

I remember hearing those statements, and believing them when I was younger. Ive grown up and realized that in sports and especially a small town market you have to capitalize on your opportunities when you can. If we win 1 championship because of this trade then it was 100% worth it to me. Championship's are so rare to come by, that they should be valued over all of the prospects in the world.

Your point is valid and I agree with it, but I hate the ad nauseum references to the Jaret Wright/Pedro Martinez non-trade as proof that you always trade potential for what seems to be a proven player. While it quickly became the battle cry of the "we need Love now" crowd, for every Wright/Martinez, I can give you just as many examples of trades that never should have been made. The Expos trading a young Randy Johnson plus other pieces for all-star strikeout machine Mark Langston comes to mind. Combining that with their trade of "haven't done anything" prospects Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips, and Grady Sizemore for proven veteran Cy Young candidate Bartolo Colon, and the team never recovered.

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Appeciate the discussion. Im sure there are more examples of what you are talking about, but Im not putting much stock into the Expos who were going all in because everyone knew they were moving out of Montreal, and they didnt care about their future.

I use the Wright and Giles examples because they hit close to home and are the last relate-able Cleveland sports example I can think of.

None of it is an exact science, because obviously no one can predict the future. The way I look at it though, is that Love gives us a much better chance of winning championships over the next 5 years then I think Wiggins would have. Do I think Wiggins will end up being the better player? Perhaps. He definitely has the potential, but due to our current circumstances with having a 29 year old LeBron, if that was truly the cost to get Love, then it was the 100% right move.

[Temuhjan]

With hindsight, I would have loved a starting lineup of Irving-Wiggins-James-Leonard-Drummond with Victor Oladipo as sixth man. In that case, we wouldn't even be having this Kevin Love discussion today. But then, the world is not perfect. C'est la vie!

[57special]

#1 draft picks over last 20 years. Who would you pick over Love with what you know now? I will put my thoughts down... Keep in mind I am a bitter, disgusted Wolves fan.

1) Bennett .... Love, easily,

2) Irving..... Love, but close.

3) Wall.... Love. Close, Wall has stepped it up.

4) Griffin.... A wash. In the past it would've been Love, but Griffin has improved his shot.

5) Rose..... Love. Injuries have severely harmed Rose's game which is based on athleticism.

6) Oden..... Love. He was far more hyped than Wiggins, btw.

7) Bargnani..... Love

8) Bogut .... Love

9) Howard..... Howard, though his game seems to be getting worse, not better.

10) LBJ. .... LBJ

11) Ming..... Yao, though it's debatable. Love will have a better career due to Yao's injuries.

12) Brown..... Love

13) KMart.... Love. KMart was good, and had a long career, but had severe injuries right out of the chute.

14) Brand.... Love.

15) Olowakandi..... Love

16) Duncan..... Duncan

17) Iverson.... AI

18) Joe Smith..... Love. We knew Joe's game very well up in MN, unfortunately.

19) G. Robinson.... Love, though Robinson had a decent career.

20) Shaq..... Shaq

Love - 13
#1's. - 6 (Shaq, Duncan, AI, Howard, Yao, LBJ)
Pick'em- 1(Griffin)

An argument can be made for Wall( disappointing till recently), Irving( young), and Rose( injuries might be turning him into Grant Hill, I.e. A very good role player?) being at least a wash.

An argument can be made against Yao due to his short career.

I don't know what sort of player Howard is anymore. At the 7 year mark of their respective careers Howard was more valuable, but I suspect that Love will have the better overall career.

It's interesting looking over the past 20 years to see that the only player that slightly resembled Wiggins was LBJ. Robinson, maybe, but he was always more of a shooter than an athletic defender.

Seven out of the 20 have had significant injury problems. Wall, Rose, Yao, KMart, Yao, Bogut, Howard.

[VinBaker6]

Wolstat is a clown. Disregard him Cleveland.


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[antistrat]

With hindsight, I would have loved a starting lineup of Irving-Wiggins-James-Leonard-Drummond with Victor Oladipo as sixth man. In that case, we wouldn't even be having this Kevin Love discussion today. But then, the world is not perfect. C'est la vie!

I'd much rather have the team the Cavs are making now over that.

[TheOUTLAW]

I've always wondered if Boston regretted trading away Al Jefferson to get Kevin Garnett?

[SwishMaster90]

I agree with this. Dealing out 3 first picks for one guy who could potentially be with us next year is desperation as we know it. My only pause is if we can REALLY get Love next off-season than we should wait. LeBron can't be that desperate, right? He's just got here... I mean what happened to patience? I still want to win and we will. But if this has to do with keeping LeBron well... he said it himself that he has no energy to leave us so...let's not seem to desperate because the narrative will change to "We must win or else" I want us to have fun not be pressured to win because we have a Big 3 abd that we gave away a potential superstar.