Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 4

[Ruzious]

Tontoz, last year we argued nobody (Monroe was the discussion point actually) would turn down a max and take the QO. Monroe turned down $60 mil reportely. Do I get partial credit?

Actually, I mentioned Monroe taking the QO just a few weeks ago. So if anybody's getting credit, it's me!

I could have sworn I read the other day that Monroe was quoted as saying he wasn't offered 5/60, and he would have jumped at the opportunity to take it.

[pcbothwel]

All,
I know a couple posters here saw how adamant I was about getting Brendan haywood this year so we could use his fully non-guarnteed 10M contract next year to pick up another piece (damn it ernie). But Assuming we dont and the Cavs instead keep him and trade him next summer, What piece do you think they'll add to Irving, Waiters, Bron, and Love?

I assume they'll look for a Center and they could also add Waiters/Thompson to the trade to take on a bigger salary. Some potentials:

Brook Lopez - 1/16.7M
Roy Hibbert - 1/15.5M (Player Option)
Javale - 1/12M (Probably Not)
Derrick Favors - 4/47M
Larry Sanders - 4/44M

Thoughts?

I think they're going to be looking for a guard to replace Waiters. He has not impressed.

I dont disagree with you about Waiters, but I cant imagine a team would have a Max Kyrie, Super-Max Lebron, and then a 10+M SG at the 1-3. I think the Cavs just need an Afflalo type 2g who can found with the MLE. I think Larry Sanders might be an interesting piece for them... Haywood & Waiters for Mayo & Sanders

[montestewart]

All,
I know a couple posters here saw how adamant I was about getting Brendan haywood this year so we could use his fully non-guarnteed 10M contract next year to pick up another piece (damn it ernie). But Assuming we dont and the Cavs instead keep him and trade him next summer, What piece do you think they'll add to Irving, Waiters, Bron, and Love?

I assume they'll look for a Center and they could also add Waiters/Thompson to the trade to take on a bigger salary. Some potentials:

Brook Lopez - 1/16.7M
Roy Hibbert - 1/15.5M (Player Option)
Javale - 1/12M (Probably Not)
Derrick Favors - 4/47M
Larry Sanders - 4/44M

Thoughts?

I think they're going to be looking for a guard to replace Waiters. He has not impressed.

I dont disagree with you about Waiters, but I cant imagine a team would have a Max Kyrie, Super-Max Lebron, and then a 10+M SG at the 1-3. I think the Cavs just need an Afflalo type 2g who can found with the MLE. I think Larry Sanders might be an interesting piece for them... Haywood & Waiters for Mayo & Sanders

Haywood's listed at about $2 million this year. Would they have to wait until after 2014-15 for the salaries to match?

[stevemcqueen1]

There is no Aquaman......Lebron is Batman, Love is Robin, Kyrie is Alfred Pennyworth

Yeah. But Kyrie is going to need the ball in his hands.

Cleveland should trade Kyrie for a good center. That team would be so much better if you swapped Kyrie with Joakim Noah or Marc Gasol.

Sorry if I've said this before, but people said the same about Wade teaming with Lebron - they both need the ball. You could be right, but I think Irving will thrive with Lebron and Love, because they're all high BBIQ high skill players who pass very well. Either way, it should be fun to watch how it works out - and if they can dominate without playing particularly good defense.

Kyrie is the third best player, but I have a feeling he's going to get the second most touches and have the second highest usage rate. LeBron will get his. I think Kyrie will keep Love from getting his too since he's a ball dominant player and Love has the better off ball game and can make an impact with his rebounding and passing if he's not scoring. Kyrie isn't really giving you much if he's not scoring.

Dion Waiters doesn't really fit into this picture. He's strictly a microwave player and a secondary ball handler, but he needs the ball to do his thing. If Kyrie wasn't in the picture, I'd say Waiters is a nice sixth man who can get plenty of opportunities as Cleveland's secondary option to spell LeBron. Much like Wade ended up becoming the past two years. But with Kyrie too, you get too many chiefs and not enough indians on offense.

I think everything for Cleveland's roster would click into place if they could trade Kyrie for a quality 3&D player at PG and a good defensively oriented center. Someone who can protect the rim and shut down pick and rolls with LeBron. You don't need a ball handler at PG when you've got LeBron. Imagine that team with Victor Oladipo at PG, Larry Sanders or Nerlens Noel at C, and someone like Ray Allen at SG. Complete balance.

[verbal8]

I think everything for Cleveland's roster would click into place if they could trade Kyrie for a quality 3&D player at PG and a good defensively oriented center. Someone who can protect the rim and shut down pick and rolls with LeBron. You don't need a ball handler at PG when you've got LeBron. Imagine that team with Victor Oladipo at PG, Larry Sanders or Nerlens Noel at C, and someone like Ray Allen at SG. Complete balance.

Given how horrible backcourt has been for the Bucks they would probably have interest in dealing Sanders for Waiters and filler. That deal might make a lot of sense with Haywood as the filler after this coming season.

[pcbothwel]

I think they're going to be looking for a guard to replace Waiters. He has not impressed.

I dont disagree with you about Waiters, but I cant imagine a team would have a Max Kyrie, Super-Max Lebron, and then a 10+M SG at the 1-3. I think the Cavs just need an Afflalo type 2g who can found with the MLE. I think Larry Sanders might be an interesting piece for them... Haywood & Waiters for Mayo & Sanders

Haywood's listed at about $2 million this year. Would they have to wait until after 2014-15 for the salaries to match?

Yes. I should of been more detailed with my question. The point is that the Cavs will play this year and get Kyrie, Waiters, LeBron, and Love comfortable with each other. Next year could be rough though as they'll have all of them returning plus the MLE and 10M to use to bring in more pieces.

I could easily see them resigning Varajao to a cheap deal with his Bird rights, using the MLE on Danny Green or Gerald Green and Haywoods deal for Sanders...

Irving
Waiters
Bron / Miller
Love / Thompson
Varajao

Is a good team, but has flaws... But:

Irving
Waiters / Green
Bron / Green
Love /
Sanders / Varajao

plus one or two Mike Millers/ Drew Gooden's and you've got a damn near unbeatable squad.

[Ruzious]

I think everything for Cleveland's roster would click into place if they could trade Kyrie for a quality 3&D player at PG and a good defensively oriented center. Someone who can protect the rim and shut down pick and rolls with LeBron. You don't need a ball handler at PG when you've got LeBron. Imagine that team with Victor Oladipo at PG, Larry Sanders or Nerlens Noel at C, and someone like Ray Allen at SG. Complete balance.

Given how horrible backcourt has been for the Bucks they would probably have interest in dealing Sanders for Waiters and filler. That deal might make a lot of sense with Haywood as the filler after this coming season.

But if Mil trades Sanders, what do they do for a C? Use Henson there where he's under-sized? Paculia is nothing more than a 30 year old backup. Seems to me it's very hard to get players who can do what Sanders can, while it's very easy to get players who can do what Waiters does.

Cleveland has Love, Thompson and V at the 4 & 5 - not to mention Haywood. They may need depth but not a starter. If they trade Waiters, they need a starting 2.

[montestewart]

Yes. I should of been more detailed with my question. The point is that the Cavs will play this year and get Kyrie, Waiters, LeBron, and Love comfortable with each other. Next year could be rough though as they'll have all of them returning plus the MLE and 10M to use to bring in more pieces.

I could easily see them resigning Varajao to a cheap deal with his Bird rights, using the MLE on Danny Green or Gerald Green and Haywoods deal for Sanders...

Irving
Waiters
Bron / Miller
Love / Thompson
Varajao

Is a good team, but has flaws... But:

Irving
Waiters / Green
Bron / Green
Love /
Sanders / Varajao

plus one or two Mike Millers/ Drew Gooden's and you've got a damn near unbeatable squad.

If they could somehow convert Waiters and the MLE into Gerald Green and Danny Green (not likely), that would be a huge step, especially if the could also trade Thompson for a better defending big.

[Nivek]

Looking at Cleveland's roster, their biggest weakness in the short term is SG. After this coming season, they will need a center. I don't think they should necessarily look to swap out Irving, though. Their best bet to me would be to build around Lebron, Love and Irving. They can find a C and/or a SG. Especially to go with Lebron.

[verbal8]

In some ways it seems like Dellavedova maybe a better option at SG rather than Waiters. He isn't great, but he would work a lot better with players who you want to shoot a lot like LeBron and Love. I don't know if he would beat Waiters out for the starting spot, but I could see him spending a lot of time with the first unit.

[Ruzious]

In some ways it seems like Dellavedova maybe a better option at SG rather than Waiters. He isn't great, but he would work a lot better with players who you want to shoot a lot like LeBron and Love. I don't know if he would beat Waiters out for the starting spot, but I could see him spending a lot of time with the first unit.

Della could fill that Kerr/Paxson role as a shooter off the bench for them. Afterall, he's whi.. er he's from St. Mary's.

[Nivek]

I woulda suggested Cleveland's best bet at SG was CJ Miles, but he's in Indy now. Oh well.

[pcbothwel]

In some ways it seems like Dellavedova maybe a better option at SG rather than Waiters. He isn't great, but he would work a lot better with players who you want to shoot a lot like LeBron and Love. I don't know if he would beat Waiters out for the starting spot, but I could see him spending a lot of time with the first unit.

Cleveland simply cannot afford to have another weak defender at the 2. LeBron is 30 and cant chase around the best perimeter defenders night in and night out anymore. If I was Cleveland, i ride it out this year and test the new Super Friends. If Sanders looks like he can contribute, i trade Waiters and Haywood for Sanders, Mayo and Wolters. Use the MLE on Danny Green and pick up big man depth with older big guys who want to tag along for the ride.

Irving / Wolters
Green / Mayo
Bron /
Love
Sanders / Varajao

[jivelikenice]

Tontoz, last year we argued nobody (Monroe was the discussion point actually) would turn down a max and take the QO. Monroe turned down $60 mil reportely. Do I get partial credit?

No. A max deal would be 5 years $84 million. He turned down 5 years $60 million. That is a big disparity.

Stop being a crank. He turned down 60 million guaranteed for 5.4 million. I'm taking partial credit!!

[tontoz]

Tontoz, last year we argued nobody (Monroe was the discussion point actually) would turn down a max and take the QO. Monroe turned down $60 mil reportely. Do I get partial credit?

No. A max deal would be 5 years $84 million. He turned down 5 years $60 million. That is a big disparity.

Stop being a crank. He turned down 60 million guaranteed for 5.4 million. I'm taking partial credit!!

Keep in mind that the salary cap is supposed to be going up next summer due to a big tv deal giving him even more incentive to take the QO.

I think you may have been reading too many of hands' posts.

[Dat2U]

In some ways it seems like Dellavedova maybe a better option at SG rather than Waiters. He isn't great, but he would work a lot better with players who you want to shoot a lot like LeBron and Love. I don't know if he would beat Waiters out for the starting spot, but I could see him spending a lot of time with the first unit.

Cleveland simply cannot afford to have another weak defender at the 2. LeBron is 30 and cant chase around the best perimeter defenders night in and night out anymore. If I was Cleveland, i ride it out this year and test the new Super Friends. If Sanders looks like he can contribute, i trade Waiters and Haywood for Sanders, Mayo and Wolters. Use the MLE on Danny Green and pick up big man depth with older big guys who want to tag along for the ride.

Irving / Wolters
Green / Mayo
Bron /
Love
Sanders / Varajao

Delladedova didn't look like a weak defender to me. He honestly looked like the Cavs best perimeter defender last year (not really saying much at all). No questioning his effort there. I'd like to have him.

Even if their salaries were the same I know I'd take Delladedova over O.J. Mayo 10 times out of 10. Mayo is a total dog and has no business playing for a contender.

[Nivek]

In my stuff, Dellavedova rated poorly on the defensive end.

I do agree that I'd rather have him than Mayo.

[pcbothwel]

In my stuff, Dellavedova rated poorly on the defensive end.

I do agree that I'd rather have him than Mayo.

Agreed, but i am assuming that Sanders bounces back and is worth his contract. If that happens I think that the Bucks would require a Waiters/Mayo flip in addition to the pure salary dump of haywoods contract

[LyricalRico]

In my stuff, Dellavedova rated poorly on the defensive end.

I do agree that I'd rather have him than Mayo.

Agreed, but i am assuming that Sanders bounces back and is worth his contract. If that happens I think that the Bucks would require a Waiters/Mayo flip in addition to the pure salary dump of haywoods contract

Actually, if Sanders bounces back and is worth his contract, I see Milwaukee keeping him and looking to trade Ersan instead.

[stevemcqueen1]

Dellavedova looked like a tough on ball defender but Cleveland wasn't any good defensively last year. They had no foundation for defense whatsoever. How can anyone really play good defense when that's the case?