Extension offer for Butler thought

[poolshark52]

complete scrubs have been getting 5 mil, but maybe that's cus of the non-guaranteed aspects.

I think he'll earn at the very least 7-8 per year. He's got to show us something more this year tho. Will be a completely different team dynamic this year though, and I expect him to excel at what he does best. Not sure how many 3s he's going to be taking with the other shooters we now have.

Anyone think his shooting is going to be scaled down? I mean, since he can't shoot and all.

I don't think it will increase, and could very well decrease if we end up with more actual shooters on the floor.

[Ralphb07]

Jimmy will net 8 mil but it's why the Bulls should package him and Taj for a legit SG...

How many legit shooting guards are there in this league that are actually worth Butler & Gibson?

Not many but the ones who are, I'd definitely pursue them.

[kingkirk]

Not many but the ones who are, I'd definitely pursue them.

HOU say no and GS wouldn't include Klay for Love, they're not doing it for Taj & JB

[bullsnewdynasty]

Butler is no more than an MLE player right now as an offensive liability.

He's only a liability offensively if you want him to be your 1st or 2nd option.

What's that have to do with anything? Teams pretty much left Butler open last season and he still bricked his shots. Until he proves he's more than a defensive specialist, he's not worth the ridiculous coin that people are apparently willing to throw his way.

And Jimmy Butler as your 3rd option is a recipe for disaster if you have any desire to be a serious contender for a championship.

[Hangtime84]

I've thought about this, but what SG is worth Jimmy and Taj (and is also available)?

Here is the top 20 SGs, as per ESPN, in terms of PPG.

James Harden
DeMar DeRozan
Goran Dragic
Kevin Martin
Monta Ellis
Jamal Crawford
Klay Thompson
Arron Afflalo
Bradley Beal
Wesley Matthews
Gordon Hayward
Dion Waiters
Gerald Green
Joe Johnson
Jodie Meeks
Eric Gordon
J.R. Smith
Trevor Ariza
Gerald Henderson
Lance Stephenson

Of that list, the ones i've bolded are those i'd trae Butler & Taj for.

Basically, the SG market is piss poor and none of these guys are worth both Taj & Butler, and in many cases, i wouldn't even give up Taj alone for these guys.

The Bulls have to find their SG/SF offensive creator either from within(Snell, McDermott) or draft one next year hopefully through the Sacramento pick. The Bulls are not getting who they need by a trade(either very expensive like Harden, Klay etc..or mediocre like Gordon, Martin etc..).

The only way Butler is let go is if he demands 10+ million and Snell becomes a proto-typical SG or Derrick is injured again and the Bulls have to rebuild completely.

Exactly the SG position as a whole in the league is absolutely terrible. Teams have better chances of developing a shooting guard from a draft pick then to find one that is "currently" in the league. Center and SG position are the two worst positions in the league.

Snell is our best bet.

[danzou]

Bruce Bowen was a better defender and 3 point shooter, and made the vet min.

[Future Coach]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I get the sense that he may very well be more expensive then the Bulls can/want to fit in.


If that is the case, then he should be traded for something before he walks as a FA for nothing in return

[Ralphb07]

Not many but the ones who are, I'd definitely pursue them.

HOU say no and GS wouldn't include Klay for Love, they're not doing it for Taj & JB

Of course. I'm saying saying a deal will happen. Just saying they should look around and see

[Polynice4Pippen]

If Butler has a repeat of his 2014 season and asks for $8 million per then Luol Deng his arse. He's a valuable piece, but can be replaced for half the price if he doesn't improve offensively.

[panthermark]

Butler has the potential to be an advanced metric beast....and the way the Bulls are set up could really inflate his stats.

High profile teams needs volume scoring and 3pt shooting. Bulls have (if healthy) a great PG and two of the best passing bigs in the game.


Butler really does three things well (when healthy and not forcing the issue). Shoot the (corner) three, finish, and get to the line.

If I'm Butler, i'm pushing for at least 11 shots per game....with at least 4 of them from deep.

[NecessaryEvil]

Bradley Beal is mad overrated.

Guess which one is Bradley Beal, the much maligned Dion Waiters or Jimmy Butler.

All 13-14 numbers

Code: Select all

TS%   50.7     50.8     52.2
PER   14.3     14.0     13.5

For someone who is meant to be an elite shooter, which helps a stat like TS%, he doesn't come out favourably.

Beal will be a good player, but he will not be the best SG in the game, as someone previously mentioned.

And no, i would not trade both Taj & Butler for Bradley Beal. We lose that trade.

Is he not supposed to get any better?? Only his second year in the league. Dominated an all-nba wing defender in his first playoff's.

He's 21 and will become much better. Best SG in the league better. Better defender than Klay, smarter than Harden.

Taj & Butler for Beal would be a dream come true. Too bad they would never do it. What do you think that package is going to nab? a SUPERSTAR? Good luck with that.

[kingkirk]

Is he not supposed to get any better?? Only his second year in the league. Dominated an all-nba wing defender in his first playoff's.

He's 21 and will become much better. Best SG in the league better. Better defender than Klay, smarter than Harden.

Taj & Butler for Beal would be a dream come true. Too bad they would never do it. What do you think that package is going to nab? a SUPERSTAR? Good luck with that.

I never said he was done, only that he was overrated. Claiming he will be the best SG in the league is overrating him, especially when his PER & TS mirror Dion Waiters.

He did not dominate in the playoffs against the Bulls. He was good, but not dominant. Against Indiana, he was back under .500 in terms of TS%.

No, i don't think Taj & Butler would nab a superstar, but given the crap that is available at the SG position, i would rather hold on to these two than moving them for 1 guy who will have less impact for the team.

[RedBulls23]

Bradley Beal is mad overrated.

Guess which one is Bradley Beal, the much maligned Dion Waiters or Jimmy Butler.

All 13-14 numbers

Code: Select all

TS%   50.7     50.8     52.2
PER   14.3     14.0     13.5

For someone who is meant to be an elite shooter, which helps a stat like TS%, he doesn't come out favourably.

Beal will be a good player, but he will not be the best SG in the game, as someone previously mentioned.

And no, i would not trade both Taj & Butler for Bradley Beal. We lose that trade.

Klay Thompson isn't far off.

He has a better TS%, but for a guy that takes as many 3's a game, I would think his TS% would be much better than it is. His PER is only 14 too.

I guess this is a testament on how weak the SG position really is in the league.

[RedBulls23]

solid offense and elite defense is worth way more than 8 mil

jimmy butler playing off derrick rose and hitting close to 40% of his 3s is a wet dream

If he's getting paid 10-12 mill a year, he needs to show more to his offense then just spotting up for 3. He needs to show that he's capable of being a 3rd option and be able to give you about 16 efficient points.

Trevor Ariza just got 8 mil a year being a 40%% behind the arc and playing great defense and people thought that was overpaying.

[nomorezorro]

ariza is 29, has been inconsistent from year to year and has a reputation for overachieving in contract years, and people still thought his contract was one of the better ones this offseason

basically, the bulls cannot afford to be in a position where they lose jimmy butler for nothing. they're not going to open up cap space if they let him go, so the only real scenario where he leaves is if he gets overpaid as a restricted free agent. that's the reason to give him a market value contract a year early - it might be somewhat of an overpay if he doesn't improve, but you're basically insuring yourself against an improvement that makes someone else willing to offer a crazy deal to pry him away. which, for the record, might not be as big as improvement as a lot of people think.

if they're not willing to commit to him now, then they either need to be committed to paying him no matter what next year or they need to move him during the season.

[kingkirk]

Klay Thompson isn't far off.

He has a better TS%, but for a guy that takes as many 3's a game, I would think his TS% would be much better than it is. His PER is only 14 too.

I guess this is a testament on how weak the SG position really is in the league.

Klay's PER is right on par wth Beal, but his TS% is 55.5. That isn't elite, but it's above league average. He has never been under league average his entire career, even as a rookie.

Waiters and Beal can't say the same.

Whilst Thompson isn't someone to write home about, especially after he wants max dollars, he certainly is far more efficient than the 3 guys i measured above.

However, as it goes to show, these guys aren't doing much outside of taking shots. You can't look to these guys to get you rebounds, run a team and hand out assists. Basically, they won't fill up the stat sheet for you.

[GimmeDat]

Beal's 21. He's already a great starting 2, and he's only going to get better. That said, I don't think he's that far in front of guys like Waiters at this point in his career. Just has the best head on his shoulders and future out of everyone I think, he looks poised and a hard worker.

[RedBulls23]

Klay's PER is right on par wth Beal, but his TS% is 55.5. That isn't elite, but it's above league average. He has never been under league average his entire career, even as a rookie.

Waiters and Beal can't say the same.

Whilst Thompson isn't someone to write home about, especially after he wants max dollars, he certainly is far more efficient than the 3 guys i measured above.

However, as it goes to show, these guys aren't doing much outside of taking shots. You can't look to these guys to get you rebounds, run a team and hand out assists. Basically, they won't fill up the stat sheet for you.

All I'm saying is that if you take and make as many 3's as he does, your TS should be elite. Klay is overrated as well.

Like I said, that position is just so weak right now that it's a testament to why even a guy like Jimmy Butler is being talked about getting 8+ million a year.

[kingkirk]

All I'm saying is that if you take and make as many 3's as he does, your TS should be elite. Klay is overrated as well.

Like I said, that position is just so weak right now that it's a testament to why even a guy like Jimmy Butler is being talked about getting 8+ million a year.

Getting to the line will also drive your TS% up.

Thompson, Waiters & Beal are not really getting to the line much.

Klay - 2.3 FTA
Beal - 2.6 FTA
Waiters - 3.4 FTA

That's not a lot, and it feeds into the theory that they're not going to impact your stat sheet outside of shooting.

That's all well and good, and we need all that stuff, but it sure speaks volumes about the piss poor competition at SG.

With Kobe, Allen, Carter, Manu & Wade are on the decline, and with Iverson & McGrady already out of the league, it has highlighted how weak the league really is there.

To that point, our weakness at SG should take this into account, and who knows, JB may actually be one of the better SGs in the game soon. He won't be elite, but top 6-10 isn't out of the question either.

[Hans Embiid]

Give him 8m and call it a deal.