The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime!

[Sunsdeuce]

@azcsports: The Suns announce that Isaiah Thomas had successful arthroscopy of his left wrist and that he is expected to participate in training camp.

Didn't even know he had any medical issues.


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[RunDogGun]

hey suns fans

each moment we spend fighting with each other

is a moment wasted when we could be hating on Laker fans.

come on guys.

whether the issue is release points, rosters, or race: we are all one mind and one heart when it comes time to BEAT LA.

(except for John Vancouver...)

I thought I was discussing shot forms of past and present players. Man, I am really questioning what people think is fighting.

Who cares about the Lakers right now?

[blee732]

Right. If Tolliver released the ball at that point, he'd block his own shot with his left hand.

I've never posted here, just read through the forum every now and then, but that comment from Bone was hilarious.

I agree with the comment from bwgood77, Tolliver will either get a wide open shot, or the big (if he's playing the 4) will be out of the lane. Either way, his purpose is pretty much served, on offense at least.

[RunDogGun]

Oh that is rich. Name every white player-even scrubs-as evidence of Phoenix racism. ........

LOL.... was merely illustrating the ability to field a line up of 'Caspers' and suggested the desire at times to do so. Like it or not, 2 plus 2 does equal 4. Not saying the franchise is racist at all. But no lying that up to the late 70s we were one of the few teams that had half a roster of those(we) pale faced devils.

You forgot Hornacek, Ainge, Majerle, Chambers, Nealy, Googs, both Jakes, Kliene, Lou, and even Rambis to name a few. But to be fair, most of those guys were good and/or played a decent role. Oh, and Kerr.

[Scutt]

I like Bledsoe a lot and I think he has star potential for a point guard. However, I have never heard of a team dominating the league and winning the title with a three headed monster point guard lineup like the Suns will have if they re-sign him. I just have not. I also do not consider the 80's Pistons a comparison because Thomas and Dumars are in an entirely different stratosphere than Dragic and Bledsoe. Therefore, I really only care about the Suns getting back something of quality for Bledsoe. The Suns have five guards that need to play besides Bledsoe in Dragic, Green, Thomas, Goodwin, and Ennis. Then they have three small forwards in Tucker, Warren, and Marcus. Their biggest weakness is power forward as they only have Markieff and Tolliver. They have their centers in Plumlee and Len. They own the rights to Bogdanovic and Alec Brown. They have multiple picks for next summer's draft.

I think the Suns will take a step forward next season regardless if Bledsoe is on the team or not. I really do. So why invest huge money to a player who has already had two knee surgeries and other injuries, especially at a position of strength on the team? No point. I am telling you, re-signing Bledsoe does not put the Suns in title contention. The league still belongs to the Spurs, Lebron's team, and Durant's team right now. Eric Bledsoe does not elevate the Suns to that tier. No way.

Goodwin and Ennis don't need to play.

So because we are fighting for a playoff spot we should give up on developing our young talent? You have to play him at some point, and I think it is clear that the d-league isn't going to do anything for him, he tore it up down there in his few stints last year. Goodwin is in his 2nd year and has shown himself to be a hard worker and invested in Phoenix. I think he deserves a chance to go against NBA caliber talent and to prove he can contribute, I just hope he gets to do it in a Suns uniform.

[RunDogGun]

Clear? Dude, you don't know what the heck you are talking about. If players aren't ready, they aren't going to play much, if at all. It has nothing to do with anyone's desire to play youth or to sit youth. Jeff will play the guys that earn it, and are ready. It is as simple as that.

Using the development league to develop players sounds logical, right?

[Scutt]

Clear? Dude, you don't know what the heck you are talking about. If players aren't ready, they aren't going to play much, if at all. It has nothing to do with anyone's desire to play youth or to sit youth. Jeff will play the guys that earn it, and are ready. It is as simple as that.

Using the development league to develop players sounds logical, right?

I was responding to jcsunsfan who said "Goodwin doesn't need to play", so it does have everything to do with his desire to see youth like Goodwin sit on the bench. My guess is Jeff Hornacek will play the players that give us the best shot at making the playoffs because that is the goal of our front office. Goodwin has already proven he deserves at least some minutes in the rotation. He averaged 8 minutes a game last year, you think that should go down because we are trying to make the playoffs again? That is not looking toward the future at all.

As far as your d- league comment, when the player is clearly above d-league talent, sending him there is not logical. Goodwin averaged like 25 points a game down there, what good is it going to do for him to spend all season there again? Going against inferior talent night after night isn't going to help him, he needs to go against NBA caliber guys.

[batsmasher]

As far as your d- league comment, when the player is clearly above d-league talent, sending him there is not logical. Goodwin averaged like 25 points a game down there, what good is it going to do for him to spend all season there again? Going against inferior talent night after night isn't going to help him, he needs to go against NBA caliber guys.

On that same premise, Darius Morris, who averaged 30pt/10.2ast/4.8rb in the D-League is also clearly above D-League talent. That does not make Darius Morris a good NBA player.

Plus, Archie played like trash in the Summer League. You don't just gift your minutes to a kid who showed no signs of improving his weaknesses, as harsh as it may sound.

[Scutt]

^ For sure I agree with you there. Alando Tucker used to beast in the d-league too, but he couldn't cut it in the NBA. I am just saying in Goodwin's specific case, I don't think his minutes should be cut and he should be banished to the D-league all season. I don't take much stock into summer league performances, so I am not worried that he didn't do so well this year. I don't think we should "gift" him minutes, but I do want to see him get a chance to earn minutes with the Suns and not in the d-league. The Suns have a bad habit of giving up on guys too soon, so I hate to see fans say a 20 year old in his 2nd year should have his minutes cut.

[Moochthemonkey]

The Suns have a bad habit of giving up on guys too soon

Which players in recent memory have the Suns given up on too soon though? Kendall Marshall? Gani Lawal? Earl Clark? Zabian Dowdell? Dionte Christmas?

[lilfishi22]

The Suns have a bad habit of giving up on guys too soon

Which players in recent memory have the Suns given up on too soon though? Kendall Marshall? Gani Lawal? Earl Clark? Zabian Dowdell? Dionte Christmas?

Matt Jannings

[Moochthemonkey]

The Suns have a bad habit of giving up on guys too soon

Which players in recent memory have the Suns given up on too soon though? Kendall Marshall? Gani Lawal? Earl Clark? Zabian Dowdell? Dionte Christmas?

Matt Jannings

google imaged the name because I forgot about him...first thought was someone photoshopped Tom Cruise in a Suns jersey lol

[NaturalBuns]

The Suns have a bad habit of giving up on guys too soon

Which players in recent memory have the Suns given up on too soon though? Kendall Marshall? Gani Lawal? Earl Clark? Zabian Dowdell? Dionte Christmas?

Marshall? (I gave up on him as well)
He just had terrible timing if you ask me.

He was basically the next point guard after the Steve Nash era so in comparison to being spoiled for 7-8 years we got someone who was underwhelming and learning. Plus the fact that the team sucked made him look even worse.

He might actually have a career now in the nba.
Even though the lakers waived him

[lilfishi22]

Never noticed until you mentioned it. He does have a bit of Tom Cruise in him.

[Scutt]

I was thinking about a guy who was one of the best rim protectors and offensive rebounders last year. A guy who would fit this current Suns team like a glove: Robin Lopez. Lets not forget that we traded away Goran Dragic too...

[jcsunsfan]

Clear? Dude, you don't know what the heck you are talking about. If players aren't ready, they aren't going to play much, if at all. It has nothing to do with anyone's desire to play youth or to sit youth. Jeff will play the guys that earn it, and are ready. It is as simple as that.

Using the development league to develop players sounds logical, right?

I was responding to jcsunsfan who said "Goodwin doesn't need to play", so it does have everything to do with his desire to see youth like Goodwin sit on the bench. My guess is Jeff Hornacek will play the players that give us the best shot at making the playoffs because that is the goal of our front office. Goodwin has already proven he deserves at least some minutes in the rotation. He averaged 8 minutes a game last year, you think that should go down because we are trying to make the playoffs again? That is not looking toward the future at all.

As far as your d- league comment, when the player is clearly above d-league talent, sending him there is not logical. Goodwin averaged like 25 points a game down there, what good is it going to do for him to spend all season there again? Going against inferior talent night after night isn't going to help him, he needs to go against NBA caliber guys.

It's not about seeing youth in the bench it more about WHICH youth deserves the pt. Warren outplayed Archie in summer league. In fact Archie regressed this year. IT is also young and deserves playing time. I can't imagine cutting Green's pt in favor of Archie after his production last year. Archie has to earn it and he hasn't.

[Zelaznyrules]

I was thinking about a guy who was one of the best rim protectors and offensive rebounders last year. A guy who would fit this current Suns team like a glove: Robin Lopez. Lets not forget that we traded away Goran Dragic too...

Yes but we gave those players a lot of minutes. They got their chance but they earned that chance. Goodwin and Ennis will get their chances too but that doesn't mean they'll be part of the rotation. They need to earn those kind of minutes or you'll end up losing the rest of the team. It isn't just about playing to make the playoffs.

[SunsFanSSOL]

Lopez looked broken by the time he was traded out of here. If he hadn't stepped it up in New Orleans he would be out of the league right now. But I agree, for this current team he would be a great fit. Although, I feel like he needs to be next to an elite PF in order to succeed. He played well next to Amare, then next to Davis and now next to Aldridge. Playing next to Frye probably wouldn't produce the same results that he had in Portland.

[Jdiddy701]

Lopez my worst Sun of all time. I don't know how many times defenders pulled the chair on him. I could not stand that guy.


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[Cutter]

I think Tolliver will surprise some. I mean, let's be honest, he's not going to shoot worse in PHX. Everyone sees their stats spike here. So worst case he keeps up his shooting %'s from last year - best case? Perhaps he improves some.

Plus, I would encourage you to look at some of the advanced stats for Tolliver - because I promise you the front office did significantly more work doing this than anyone on this board has - and notice the following:

Anthony Tolliver
TS%: .605
eFG%: .586
3p%: .413
WSp48: .117

Channing Frye
TS%: .555
eFG%: .535
3p%: .370
WSp48: .109

Also, for those interested, Tolliver was assisted on 100% of his shots and he shot 80.5% of his FGs from beyond the arc. His corner 3p% was 39%, indicating he shot better at the top of the arc, much like Frye.

Interestingly, Channing Frye only made 29.3% of his corner threes - so, in addition to being better at every advanced metric, Tolliver is also a substantially better shooter from the corner.

Scorched, do you know what the sample size is for each player? I'm too lazy to look it up right now, but I am guessing Frye took a ton more shots than Tolliver. If Tolliver could maintain those numbers over a much larger sample set then the Suns got themselves another steal.