Shotblocking Bigs - Any ideas?

[improvisor]

I think we can get away with what we have now. Look for Love to move over to the 5 sometimes with Bron or TT at the 4. Plus haywood could just be the most underrated pickup for us. It's something in the future we have to think about but for now I would just sit until something to good to pass up comes along.

[oikosnomos]

Varejao and Waiters won't be traded because Lebron likes them and wants them on the team.

Thompson won't be traded because he has the same agent as Lebron James and his going to be overpaid next year as part of Lebron coming to Cleveland.

Trading Brendan Haywood now is shortsighted because the only reason he is here is to trade his huge unguaranteed contract next year, not act a filler for a trade now for some below average 7 footer.

The trade assets we have right now (assuming the Love trade is a done deal) are:

- Grizzlies 1st rounder (1-5 and 15-20 protected for 2015 and 2016)
- John Lucas III - $1,600,000 salary cap hold
- Malcolm Thomas - $948,163 salary cap hold (cannot be traded with any other players until after Sept 22, 2015)
- Joe Harris - $884,879 (cannot be traded until August 23rd, 2014)
- Erik Murphy - $816,482 salary cap hold
- Matthew Dellavedova (unlikely to be traded because he is cheap, quality option as bench guard)

Not a whole lot to work with.

You can take back 150% plus $100,000 of salary that you traded.

So lets say the Cavs put John Lucas III, Erik Murphy and Joe Harris out there in a trade and include the Grizzlies pick as motivation to trade with the Cavs.

You are looking at about $5,052,0415 the Cavs can take in. So, guys like Sanders and Hibbert are out. Cannot afford them at all and the Bucks and Pacers could get way more than that offer from some other team.

You could maybe get a guy like Zaza or Kanter if you included more assets, but why would want to? They don't give us what we need.

There are number C's you could get for this amount:

- Timofey Mozgov $4,700,000
- Samuel Dalembert $4,051,527
- Ian Mahinmi $4,000,000
- Bismack Biyombo $3,900,000 (RFA in 2015)
- Kosta Koufos $3,000,000 (FA in 2015)
- Meyers Leonard $2,317,920
- John Henson $2,000,000
- Alexis Ajinca $981,084
- Kyle O'Quinn $915,243
- Jeff Withey $816,482

I don't think Denver trades Mozgov for that package. I don't think Indy trades Ian Mahinmi at all, since they are reportedly looking to move Hibbert.

Kosta Koufos is a plodding behemoth and not a good fit for what the Cavs are doing. I don't think Leonard, Henson, Ajinca, O'Quinn or Withey are what the Cavs are looking for. They are reported to be looking for veteran big guys. None of those guys will make an impact this year in the playoffs and that is really all we are looking for: a veteran, defensive presence for 2014-2015.

So for mean it comes down to two guys: Samuel Dalembert and Bismack Biyombo.

New York might trade Dalembert for that package (you could even take out Joe Harris) just to acquire the pick. He is only under contract for a year and I don't know what the Knicks are thinking of doing. If they are planning a rebuild, they could definitely move him. If they are trying to make the playoffs, they probably keep him. But he would be perfect: a vet, a defensive presence, only here for one year.

Charlotte didn't use Biyombo very much last year. They may not be looking to trade him, but if they are he fits the criteria as well. He isn't a "vet" per se, but he is an older guy (despite what is listed) and while undersized, he a rim protector for sure. Rebounds well, doesn't need the ball on offense at all, which is fine on this roster. But again, I have no idea is Charlotte would trade him for a pick and guaranteed contracts.

I'm not even sure I love these options though. Are these rentals worth a 1st rounder? You may want to save that pick to get bigger deal done for a center next summer with Brendan Haywood. Maybe make a trade with couple second rounders instead, but all we have is our own now and those will like be in the 50's.

[Cassius]

Great analysis Oikos, what do you think of Ekpe Udoh?

And I'm not sure who mentioned him, but Javale McGee as an FA signing next summer would be unbelievably good.

[oikosnomos]

Great analysis Oikos, what do you think of Ekpe Udoh?

And I'm not sure who mentioned him, but Javale McGee as an FA signing next summer would be unbelievably good.

Udoh is a good interior defender and really good at guarding the pick and roll. He is decent rim protector as well. He isn't a great rebounder, but Warrior fans would claim this was because he was boxing guys out instead of going for the rebound, so he was net positive in the rebounding category (not sure if it is true).

I'm sure on the details of his injuries, but my understanding is he injury proned (at least he is hurt a lot). He has rep for not being very tough and he is atrocious offensively. For the role of back big man however, his weaknesses may not be that bad for us.

I think I would rather sign Jermaine O'neal or Emeka Okafor over him though, but neither of those guys may be an option.

McGee will not be on this team. You heard Lebron praising Love not because of his stats, but because of his basketball IQ. Javale McGee may have the worst basketball IQ in the league. It's the reason that Beasley, even for all his talent, just couldn't find minutes on the Heat. You gotta be a smart player to play with Lebron. He is also under contract next year for $12 million a year, so he wouldn't be FA.

[gflem]

Sanders shouldn't be on the Cavs' list this year. He's too much of a liability the first year the Big Three are together. They don't need a Josh Gordon type of distraction. A year from now when Haywood's contract isn't guaranteed, the Cavs could gamble on him if the Bucks decide to move on.

This may well be the plan. I read that Jan Vessley didn't have his option picked up, yeah he looked like hot garbage in the few games I saw, but is he worth taking a flier on for training camp? He has great size at least.

[spikeslovechild]

Varejao and Waiters won't be traded because Lebron likes them and wants them on the team.

Thompson won't be traded because he has the same agent as Lebron James and his going to be overpaid next year as part of Lebron coming to Cleveland.

Varejao only has one year left anyways. I don't think Lebron would have a problem if Varejao left and a much better player (and fit) ala Hibbert came in as a result.

I don't think he would have sweated the loss of Thomspon and Waiters if the Cavs brought in Love as a result either.

[mup]

Sanders shouldn't be on the Cavs' list this year. He's too much of a liability the first year the Big Three are together. They don't need a Josh Gordon type of distraction. A year from now when Haywood's contract isn't guaranteed, the Cavs could gamble on him if the Bucks decide to move on.

This may well be the plan. I read that Jan Vessley didn't have his option picked up, yeah he looked like hot garbage in the few games I saw, but is he worth taking a flier on for training camp? He has great size at least.

I thought Veseley signed in Turkey.


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[oikosnomos]

Varejao and Waiters won't be traded because Lebron likes them and wants them on the team.

Thompson won't be traded because he has the same agent as Lebron James and his going to be overpaid next year as part of Lebron coming to Cleveland.

Varejao only has one year left anyways. I don't think Lebron would have a problem if Varejao left and a much better player (and fit) ala Hibbert came in as a result.

I don't think he would have sweated the loss of Thomspon and Waiters if the Cavs brought in Love as a result either.

Lebron has been raving about playing with Andy since he announced his decision. Lebron clearly wants Andy here on this roster this year.

I also fail to see how trading Andy away for Hibbert makes any sense for solving the our depth issue at the 5. We bring in Hibbert and still only have one center. As for fit, I think Hibbert is a fairly poor fit. He is a paint clogger and fairly poor rebounder. Andy is also a better passer, which is vital for Blatt's offense. Why would we give up all that just so we can get our rim protector (one that shrunk during the playoffs).

Trading away Thompson would be fine with me, I just don't think it will happen because Rich Paul got him set up to get paid by the Cavs for delivering James (widely speculated). Plus Thompson is a good cheap glue guy. He will rebound, hustle, take charges and won't complain even if he gets not plays ran for him or shots to take.

Trading away Waiters for a rim protector wouldn't make any sense either because then our 2 guard depth goes in the toilet. Again, Lebron wants him here, so why would we just trade him away to get any shot blocking big man that someone will give us? Makes no sense to me. Love is being acquired for Wiggins and Bennett, who weren't mentioned in Lebron's letter. Do you think this is a coincidence?

[jbk1234]

Sanders shouldn't be on the Cavs' list this year. He's too much of a liability the first year the Big Three are together. They don't need a Josh Gordon type of distraction. A year from now when Haywood's contract isn't guaranteed, the Cavs could gamble on him if the Bucks decide to move on.

This may well be the plan. I read that Jan Vessley didn't have his option picked up, yeah he looked like hot garbage in the few games I saw, but is he worth taking a flier on for training camp? He has great size at least.

Frankly, I don't think Jan Vessley is good enough to play in the NBA.

[spikeslovechild]

Varejao and Waiters won't be traded because Lebron likes them and wants them on the team.

Thompson won't be traded because he has the same agent as Lebron James and his going to be overpaid next year as part of Lebron coming to Cleveland.

Varejao only has one year left anyways. I don't think Lebron would have a problem if Varejao left and a much better player (and fit) ala Hibbert came in as a result.

I don't think he would have sweated the loss of Thomspon and Waiters if the Cavs brought in Love as a result either.

Lebron has been raving about playing with Andy since he announced his decision. Lebron clearly wants Andy here on this roster this year.

I also fail to see how trading Andy away for Hibbert makes any sense for solving the our depth issue at the 5. We bring in Hibbert and still only have one center. As for fit, I think Hibbert is a fairly poor fit. He is a paint clogger and fairly poor rebounder. Andy is also a better passer, which is vital for Blatt's offense. Why would we give up all that just so we can get our rim protector (one that shrunk during the playoffs).

Trading away Thompson would be fine with me, I just don't think it will happen because Rich Paul got him set up to get paid by the Cavs for delivering James (widely speculated). Plus Thompson is a good cheap glue guy. He will rebound, hustle, take charges and won't complain even if he gets not plays ran for him or shots to take.

Trading away Waiters for a rim protector wouldn't make any sense either because then our 2 guard depth goes in the toilet. Again, Lebron wants him here, so why would we just trade him away to get any shot blocking big man that someone will give us? Makes no sense to me. Love is being acquired for Wiggins and Bennett, who weren't mentioned in Lebron's letter. Do you think this is a coincidence?

There is nothing wrong with Hibbert rebounding. He just happened to be surrounded with other good rebounders and the opportunities aren't there for him to pad his defensive rebounding stats (the pacers were number one in team defensive rebounding last year).

He's also not a paint clogger. He is one of the better centers in the league when it comes to his 5-10 jumpshot. When it comes to his defense of course he is a very good rim protector but he is also a very good man defender. He can defend the likes of Howard, Duncan, etc. Can Varejao?

To me anyways when he's on he's a top five center in the NBA. The quest is to get his head on straight but lets be truthfully honest here if he was performing at his 2011-2012 level he likely wouldn't be available at all and certainly not for amounts to Varejao and a late first rounder. The only reason why the Pacers would consider the proposed trade is because he is coming off down year.

As far as friends go I think Lebron left a bunch of them in Miami (including the lovelorn Napier). I think james will be in favor for whats best for the cavs (winning) and his brand (winning). It will be very hard to get that rim protector without one of Thompson, Waiters, Varejao being moved. There's also nothing preventing Varejao from coming back next season if the bond is that strong.

[oikosnomos]

There is nothing wrong with Hibbert rebounding. He just happened to be surrounded with other good rebounders and the opportunities aren't there for him.

As far as friends go I think Lebron left a bunch of them in Miami (including the lovelorn Napier). I think james will be in favor for whats best for the cavs (winning) and his brand (winning). It will be very hard to get that rim protecter without one of Thompson, Waiters, Varejao being moved.

Most of the numbers say Hibbert is an average to below average rebounder for his size. Regardless, he is a worse rebounder than Andy, so that is negative in an Andy-Hibbert swap.

I never said that Lebron just wanted his friends on the team. Never said that once. I said that he wants Andy and Waiters on the team because he believes they make the team better and a higher chance to win. That is why he wants them on the team as opposed to Roy Hibbert who has not shown a whole lot this past year. It will be hard to get a rim protector without TT, Waiters and Varejao, which is why I broke down what was reasonably available and what the Cavs might be looking at.

[Cassius]

Begs the question... how much of a dropoff is Zeller to Kirk?

It sounds like Zeller is the exact type of player that would fit the role. Of course, you move him to get Lebron & Love, but just wondering how much he'll be missed with respect to the guy that we did sign.

[johnnyballgame]

Varejao and Waiters won't be traded because Lebron likes them and wants them on the team.

Thompson won't be traded because he has the same agent as Lebron James and his going to be overpaid next year as part of Lebron coming to Cleveland.

Trading Brendan Haywood now is shortsighted because the only reason he is here is to trade his huge unguaranteed contract next year, not act a filler for a trade now for some below average 7 footer.

The trade assets we have right now (assuming the Love trade is a done deal) are:

- Grizzlies 1st rounder (1-5 and 15-20 protected for 2015 and 2016)
- John Lucas III - $1,600,000 salary cap hold
- Malcolm Thomas - $948,163 salary cap hold (cannot be traded with any other players until after Sept 22, 2015)
- Joe Harris - $884,879 (cannot be traded until August 23rd, 2014)
- Erik Murphy - $816,482 salary cap hold
- Matthew Dellavedova (unlikely to be traded because he is cheap, quality option as bench guard)

Not a whole lot to work with.

You can take back 150% plus $100,000 of salary that you traded.

So lets say the Cavs put John Lucas III, Erik Murphy and Joe Harris out there in a trade and include the Grizzlies pick as motivation to trade with the Cavs.

You are looking at about $5,052,0415 the Cavs can take in. So, guys like Sanders and Hibbert are out. Cannot afford them at all and the Bucks and Pacers could get way more than that offer from some other team.

You could maybe get a guy like Zaza or Kanter if you included more assets, but why would want to? They don't give us what we need.

There are number C's you could get for this amount:

- Timofey Mozgov $4,700,000
- Samuel Dalembert $4,051,527
- Ian Mahinmi $4,000,000
- Bismack Biyombo $3,900,000 (RFA in 2015)
- Kosta Koufos $3,000,000 (FA in 2015)
- Meyers Leonard $2,317,920
- John Henson $2,000,000
- Alexis Ajinca $981,084
- Kyle O'Quinn $915,243
- Jeff Withey $816,482

I don't think Denver trades Mozgov for that package. I don't think Indy trades Ian Mahinmi at all, since they are reportedly looking to move Hibbert.

Kosta Koufos is a plodding behemoth and not a good fit for what the Cavs are doing. I don't think Leonard, Henson, Ajinca, O'Quinn or Withey are what the Cavs are looking for. They are reported to be looking for veteran big guys. None of those guys will make an impact this year in the playoffs and that is really all we are looking for: a veteran, defensive presence for 2014-2015.

So for mean it comes down to two guys: Samuel Dalembert and Bismack Biyombo.

New York might trade Dalembert for that package (you could even take out Joe Harris) just to acquire the pick. He is only under contract for a year and I don't know what the Knicks are thinking of doing. If they are planning a rebuild, they could definitely move him. If they are trying to make the playoffs, they probably keep him. But he would be perfect: a vet, a defensive presence, only here for one year.

Charlotte didn't use Biyombo very much last year. They may not be looking to trade him, but if they are he fits the criteria as well. He isn't a "vet" per se, but he is an older guy (despite what is listed) and while undersized, he a rim protector for sure. Rebounds well, doesn't need the ball on offense at all, which is fine on this roster. But again, I have no idea is Charlotte would trade him for a pick and guaranteed contracts.

I'm not even sure I love these options though. Are these rentals worth a 1st rounder? You may want to save that pick to get bigger deal done for a center next summer with Brendan Haywood. Maybe make a trade with couple second rounders instead, but all we have is our own now and those will like be in the 50's.

Great analysis. I think we'll have even less assets than you say though. Can we take on Love without Murphy and Lucas? I thought their salaries were needed but its been a while,I could be wrong. Also, I thought I read the Knicks weren't looking to move Dalembert. He was the first name I thought of because he fits perfectly. They're thin at the 5 too, but I guess they'd only have more cap room next year as a reason to keep him.
I agree that at this point, we should be patient and wait for the deadline. Maybe someone worthwhile becomes available. If not Haywood is dealt next year or maybe even Thompson in a sign and trade. That gets him paid and helps his agent. We can move Thompson as soon as Love is resigned but not before. Lebron would be happy for his boy if he left for a nice long term deal and lebron got a better chance at a ring. He understands business.

[oikosnomos]

Great analysis. I think we'll have even less assets than you say though. Can we take on Love without Murphy and Lucas? I thought their salaries were needed but its been a while,I could be wrong. Also, I thought I read the Knicks weren't looking to move Dalembert. He was the first name I thought of because he fits perfectly. They're thin at the 5 too, but I guess they'd only have more cap room next year as a reason to keep him.
I agree that at this point, we should be patient and wait for the deadline. Maybe someone worthwhile becomes available. If not Haywood is dealt next year or maybe even Thompson in a sign and trade. That gets him paid and helps his agent. We can move Thompson as soon as Love is resigned but not before. Lebron would be happy for his boy if he left for a nice long term deal and lebron got a better chance at a ring. He understands business.

Wiggins and Bennett's combined salaries are enough to get just Kevin Love.

Wiggins - $5,510,640
Bennett - $5,563,920
=$11,074,560

That number can net you 150% plus $100,000 back in salary, which comes to $16,711,840. Love makes $15,719,063, so we got a just under a million to spare.

The Cavs could include Erik Murphy in the Love trade and potentially get back Ronny Turiaf who was injured most of last year, but he is solid defensively and will get quite a few blocks. I can't see why the T'wolves would care about keeping him with Dieng and Pekovic on the team. It would save them a little money and it would give us a little more depth at the 5. He isn't great, but it's good insurance and he is high character guy.

[johnnyballgame]

Great analysis. I think we'll have even less assets than you say though. Can we take on Love without Murphy and Lucas? I thought their salaries were needed but its been a while,I could be wrong. Also, I thought I read the Knicks weren't looking to move Dalembert. He was the first name I thought of because he fits perfectly. They're thin at the 5 too, but I guess they'd only have more cap room next year as a reason to keep him.
I agree that at this point, we should be patient and wait for the deadline. Maybe someone worthwhile becomes available. If not Haywood is dealt next year or maybe even Thompson in a sign and trade. That gets him paid and helps his agent. We can move Thompson as soon as Love is resigned but not before. Lebron would be happy for his boy if he left for a nice long term deal and lebron got a better chance at a ring. He understands business.

Wiggins and Bennett's combined salaries are enough to get just Kevin Love.

Wiggins - $5,510,640
Bennett - $5,563,920
=$11,074,560

That number can net you 150% plus $100,000 back in salary, which comes to $16,711,840. Love makes $15,719,063, so we got a just under a million to spare.

The Cavs could include Erik Murphy in the Love trade and potentially get back Ronny Turiaf who was injured most of last year, but he is solid defensively and will get quite a few blocks. I can't see why the T'wolves would care about keeping him with Dieng and Pekovic on the team. It would save them a little money and it would give us a little more depth at the 5. He isn't great, but it's good insurance and he is high character guy.

Yeah, it definitely works with them two for Love. When I was trying scenarios through the trade checker I had us taking back JJ.Barea - not because I wanted to but because Minny was wanting to rid themselves of him and I thought that was Griffins motivation for us making the trade with Utah as well as the final piece that made Minny agree. They're getting a great deal but Flip was being Flip and the timing all fit accordingly. As far as Turiaf, I still think we're best just waiting and seeing what becomes available. I'd hate to lose any of what little flexibility we have at the trade deadline. I'd be okay with waiting until next year to add a center if there's nothing worth having. Why back ourselves into that corner for Turiaf? Injuries and other things happen - we may need to add a two guard at the deadline. You just never know.

[patrol345]

any interest in JJ hickson again for yall?

[johnnyballgame]

any interest in JJ hickson again for yall?

IMO he doesn't really add anything we don't have already. we need a defensive center not another 6'9" forward to play the 5. I could think of better ways to spend 5M.

[antistrat]

any interest in JJ hickson again for yall?

IMO he doesn't really add anything we don't have already. we need a defensive center not another 6'9" forward to play the 5. I could think of better ways to spend 5M.

Don't you already have a defensive center? Just not one that can stay healthy.

[johnnyballgame]

any interest in JJ hickson again for yall?

IMO he doesn't really add anything we don't have already. we need a defensive center not another 6'9" forward to play the 5. I could think of better ways to spend 5M.

Don't you already have a defensive center? Just not one that can stay healthy.

yes, we have Varejao, but he doesn't play 48 minutes. At this point it looks like the 6'9" Thompson will be our backup post player. Love is taller but he plays even less defense. Hickson is almost a duplication of Thompson, not an answer to our need for more defensive help in the post. and at 5 million we'd have to trade the rest of our assets as outlined so nicely above. its not a fit for the cavs unless there was an injury or another trade with it.