Clippers Will Sign Farmar to BAE: $4.2M/2yrs

[Quake Griffin]

Ranma,

why are you asking an NBA player to get over themself? Especially Farmar...who is probably the greatest HS basketball player in Southern California history...only compared to the likes of a Freeman Williams or Raymond Lewis...oh and he led UCLA to their 1st Final Four Appearance as a Sophomore.

Farm's arrogance and big headedness is fine to me. It lets me know he's gonna compete his tail off against CP in practice and hold teammates accountable. It's the type that will make him try his damn hardest to keep Russell Westbrook in front of him (good luck). I dont see his arrogance as the type that will disrupt team chemistry or start fights in the locker room. That kid has a REALLY good work ethic and I think it can be infectious.

[QRich3]

He's basically another version of what Collison was for us isn't he? a spark plug off the bench who can run and score some, make some plays in transition, but can't defend or properly make plays in the half court. Since Collison got overpaid I'm cool with us picking up the cheapest possible version of what we had last year.

The player option thing is a classic when you sign a guy who thinks is underpaid, they reserve the option to go elsewhere if the money is there for them (like Collison did). I bet Doc didn't want to include it, but it's better than overpaying.

[TheNewEra]

Would of preferred Hill .

[og15]

Who's Hill?

Here I am thinking of a PG, you mean Jordan Hill. Hill is going to get a lot more than he BAE, signing Hawes automatically meant no chance at Jordan Hill. He's getting at least MLE, so we didn't sign Farmar instead of Hill and Farmar didn't prevent us from getting Hill.

[thanumba2clippersfan]

Hey we got a backup PG so I'm happy that we filled a need.

[mj_shoefanatic]

This was a "better than nothing" pickup. I'll take it but would have preferred Sessions or Augustin. Oh well.

[Neddy]

hahaha riverside has gone mad!

did you get my shirts, bro?

[Quake Griffin]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrIRDYUWIAQ[/youtube]

never forget

[Ranma]

Ranma,

why are you asking an NBA player to get over themself? Especially Farmar...who is probably the greatest HS basketball player in Southern California history...only compared to the likes of a Freeman Williams or Raymond Lewis...oh and he led UCLA to their 1st Final Four Appearance as a Sophomore.

Farm's arrogance and big headedness is fine to me. It lets me know he's gonna compete his tail off against CP in practice and hold teammates accountable. It's the type that will make him try his damn hardest to keep Russell Westbrook in front of him (good luck). I dont see his arrogance as the type that will disrupt team chemistry or start fights in the locker room. That kid has a REALLY good work ethic and I think it can be infectious.

My apologies, Quake Griffin.

I've been surprisingly pre-occupied the past few months and have only been able to sporadically follow and contribute in a few threads. I've been meaning to respond to your question for a while and also want to apologize to anyone else I may have missed in directly addressing.

In any case, let me tackle the topic at hand. First off, I'm generally not a fan of players with alpha-male egos, especially those who don't back it up on the field/floor. Your description of Farmar is more apt for a Terrell Owens or Michael Irvin on the football field while Farmar has not come close to approaching that level. Even in his best-case scenario of being Allen Iverson, a team built around an inefficient chucker is not something I'm particularly fond of rooting for nor has proven successful with the 2001 Philadelphia 76ers anomaly notwithstanding.

Secondly, I understand that Farmar is in a different situation with the Clippers and I further get the business aspect of the NBA and that certain selfish motivations are necessary in order to push certain individual players to excel in professional sports, but I'm going to have to disagree with your notion that he will hold teammates accountable when he himself doesn't seem to hold himself accountable as a defender or ball-handler. His defense consists of gambling for steals in passing lanes and his assist-to-turnover ratio is basically just 2-to-1. I'd think you'd be hard-pressed to find expert opinions categorizing Farmar with leadership qualities.

Thirdly, I'd counter your assertion of Farmar as possibly "the greatest HS basketball player in Southern California history" with Cheryl Miller, whom I'd argue has a more impressive resume of accolades. Heck, her brother, Reggie, did more for UCLA basketball than Farmar. Also, accomplishments as a prep prospect are dubiously Al-Bundy-esque when it comes to translating to pro success. Names like Felipe Lopez, Schea Cotton, and Sebastian Telfair are all too common. Heck, DaJuan Wagner scored 100 points in a high school game and averaged 42.5 points his senior season. As a Bruin alumnus, I also take issue with the notion of Farmar "leading" UCLA when the 2005-06 team had future NBA players Arron Afflalo, Darren Collison, Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, and Ryan Hollins with Afflalo having a more convincing argument as the team's best player, not to mention also having a better NBA career.

As I said, I generally have issues with players who put themselves above team, especially when Doc himself espouses the virtues of Ubuntu. Having said that, I'm willing to give Doc a chance to work him within our team structure and, believe it or not, I actually think there is a place for Farmar in the NBA as long as he is in a limited role where he is spot-shooting with more notable ball-handlers and his liability on defense minimized. Playing off-the-ball with Kobe Bryant handling playmaking duties is an ideal role for Farmar, so he should be able to do the same on the second unit with Jamal Crawford playing the Kobe role.

[LACtdom]

... a team built around an inefficient chucker is not something I'm particularly fond of rooting for nor has proven successful...

Have you seen Jamal?

[Neddy]

and Jamal should be traded.

[Ranma]

... a team built around an inefficient chucker is not something I'm particularly fond of rooting for nor has proven successful...

Have you seen Jamal?

This is a fair point, but like Farmar, Crawford is not one of our cornerstone players but he is a major contributor to our team and a significant piece to the build of the team. Unlike Farmar, he brings more to the table than just being a perimeter shooter with occasional drives; Crawford is a much more dangerous scorer and even playmaker albeit streaky. However, he also presents a defensive liability just like Farmar.

Crawford is a bit of an exception to the rule in that he conforms a little more to the team dynamic, but still, he has shown himself to be temperamental whenever there are perceived issues with his role. Another issue is that he has proven ineffective in the postseason for us. I like Crawford but I don't see him being with the team beyond this upcoming season.

[LACtdom]

I agree, Crawford is a thousand times more valuable. However I'm sure Farmar in the playoffs won't chuck up shots with CP3 and Blake calling for the ball.

[Xepa777]

... a team built around an inefficient chucker is not something I'm particularly fond of rooting for nor has proven successful...

Have you seen Jamal?

This is a fair point, but like Farmar, Crawford is not one of our cornerstone players but he is a major contributor to our team and a significant piece to the build of the team. Unlike Farmar, he brings more to the table than just being a perimeter shooter with occasional drives; Crawford is a much more dangerous scorer and even playmaker albeit streaky. However, he also presents a defensive liability just like Farmar.

Crawford is a bit of an exception to the rule in that he conforms a little more to the team dynamic, but still, he has shown himself to be temperamental whenever there are perceived issues with his role. Another issue is that he has proven ineffective in the postseason for us. I like Crawford but I don't see him being with the team beyond this upcoming season.

I have no idea where you're getting the perception that he's a bad defender. He came from UCLA and he learned a lot on D when he played overseas. Farmar is a solid positional defender and incredibly feisty; he's also much stronger than Collison (and smarter).

He's a floor general and he did GREAT with the Nets when he was a starter. He was doing fantastic for LA last year until he got those 2 injuries. He's going to be a real, real, real pleasant surprise for everyone here.

Expecting Farmar to be a stand still shooter is completely under utilizing his skill set. Shows extreme naivete to his skill set. The Lakers don't win the playoff series against Houston if it wasn't for Farmar coming up HUGE after Fisher got suspended.

And I will be here to see y'all eating crow on him next year.

[Ranma]

I have no idea where you're getting the perception that he's a bad defender. He came from UCLA and he learned a lot on D when he played overseas. Farmar is a solid positional defender and incredibly feisty; he's also much stronger than Collison (and smarter).

He's a floor general and he did GREAT with the Nets when he was a starter. He was doing fantastic for LA last year until he got those 2 injuries. He's going to be a real, real, real pleasant surprise for everyone here.

Expecting Farmar to be a stand still shooter is completely under utilizing his skill set. Shows extreme naivete to his skill set. The Lakers don't win the playoff series against Houston if it wasn't for Farmar coming up HUGE after Fisher got suspended.

And I will be here to see y'all eating crow on him next year.

We get it. You're a fan and, based on the bolding of your reply, probably the president of his fan club, but if Farmar was all that, then why did he have to settle for the BAE when the aforementioned Darren Collison signed a big deal with the Kings? Why did he have to play overseas during the 2012-13 NBA season in the first place? Why did the Lakers--his first choice to re-sign with, by the way-- value cap space in the futile hopes of signing a big UFA over bringing back this supposed stud as soon as possible? The truth is he's trying to rebuild his value so that he can look for a better deal elsewhere (like Collison), which is fine by me since that would help the 2014-15 Clippers and I'm not much of a fan to begin with.

He does possess athleticism capable of doing all sorts of things on the floor, which is why I cited Allen Iverson in a comparison, but his decision-making and lack of discipline keeps him from being effective at much of anything except being a spot-up shooter. Yes, Ben Howland does a good job of producing NBA guards who defend well, but Farmar again is the exception to the rule, apparently benefiting from the reputation garnered by the likes of Aron Afflalo, Russell Westbrook, Darren Collison, and Jrue Holiday. That is not to say he is not an active defender, however, it also doesn't mean he's an effective one either.

While plus-minus is not a complete rating of a player's overall contributions on the floor, it is decent in indicating trends, so it is not much of a coincidence that Farmar's +/- has been negative in his three most recent NBA seasons, including the one season after his stint overseas and the two seasons prior to that. Given all that, who seems to be more naive?

Look, as I've said, Farmar has a place in the NBA with his skillset and, while I acknowledge that he's capable of doing much more, I don't see him ever living up to such lofty expectations most likely due to his ego and sense of self that was previously discussed in this thread.

[Xepa777]

I have no idea where you're getting the perception that he's a bad defender. He came from UCLA and he learned a lot on D when he played overseas. Farmar is a solid positional defender and incredibly feisty; he's also much stronger than Collison (and smarter).

He's a floor general and he did GREAT with the Nets when he was a starter. He was doing fantastic for LA last year until he got those 2 injuries. He's going to be a real, real, real pleasant surprise for everyone here.

Expecting Farmar to be a stand still shooter is completely under utilizing his skill set. Shows extreme naivete to his skill set. The Lakers don't win the playoff series against Houston if it wasn't for Farmar coming up HUGE after Fisher got suspended.

And I will be here to see y'all eating crow on him next year.

We get it. You're a fan and, based on the bolding of your reply, probably the president of his fan club, but if Farmar was all that, then why did he have to settle for the BAE when the aforementioned Darren Collison signed a big deal with the Kings? Why did he have to play overseas during the 2012-13 NBA season in the first place? Why did the Lakers--his first choice to re-sign with, by the way-- value cap space in the hopes of signing a big UFA over bringing back this supposed stud as soon as possible? The truth is he's trying to rebuild his value so that he can look for a better deal elsewhere (like Collison), which is fine by me since that would help the 2014-15 Clippers and I'm not much of a fan to begin with.

He does possess athleticism capable of doing all sorts of things on the floor, which is why I cited Allen Iverson in a comparison, but his decision-making and lack of discipline keeps him from being effective at much of anything except being a spot-up shooter. Yes, Ben Howland does a good job of producing NBA guards who defend well, but Farmar again is the exception to the rule, apparently benefiting from the reputation garnered by the likes of Aron Afflalo, Darren Collison, and Jrue Holiday. That is not to say he is not an active defender, however, it also doesn't mean he's an effective one either.

While plus-minus is not a complete rating of a player's overall contributions on the floor, it is decent in indicating trends, so it is not much of a coincidence that Farmar's +/- has been negative in his three most recent NBA seasons, including the one season after his stint overseas and the two seasons prior to that.

Given all that, who seems to be more naive? Look, as I've said, Farmar has a place in the NBA with his skillset and, while I acknowledge that he's capable of doing much more, I don't see him ever living up to such lofty expectation most likely due to ego and sense of self that was previously discussed in this thread.

+/- is the dumbest stat out there and there's a reason why no one cites it at the MIT Sloan Analytics conference every year. I'm not president of the Farmar fanclub; I just recognize that he's not the scrub you see him as. He played when Deron was off the floor and last year he was just getting acclimated back in the NBA before getting injured.

He turned down $8 million/year from overseas where he was thriving as a leader to play in Los Angeles, so there's a strong motivation for him to stay in Los Angeles for the lifestyle (othwise it'd just be a terrible overall decision for him).

He went overseas during the lockout and frankly kicked ass, which is why he stayed overseas to grow as a player. That's not a crazy scenario (and again, he was getting paid $$$). Do I think he's worth $8 million a year in the NBA? Probably not, but maybe MLE+ depending on his play with the Clippers next year.

And I bold almost all my posts, especially when they're in responses to crazy fallacies and slurs (like citing +/- and implying Farmar couldn't get a minimal offer in the NBA).

[Ranma]

+/- is the dumbest stat out there and there's a reason why no one cites it at the MIT Sloan Analytics conference every year. I'm not president of the Farmar fanclub; I just recognize that he's not the scrub you see him as. He played when Deron was off the floor and last year he was just getting acclimated back in the NBA before getting injured.

He turned down $8 million/year from overseas where he was thriving as a leader to play in Los Angeles, so there's a strong motivation for him to stay in Los Angeles for the lifestyle (othwise it'd just be a terrible overall decision for him).

He went overseas during the lockout and frankly kicked ass, which is why he stayed overseas to grow as a player. That's not a crazy scenario (and again, he was getting paid $$$). Do I think he's worth $8 million a year in the NBA? Probably not, but maybe MLE+ depending on his play with the Clippers next year.

And I bold almost all my posts, especially when they're in responses to crazy fallacies and slurs (like citing +/- and implying Farmar couldn't get a minimal offer in the NBA).

Speaking of fallacies, you continue to misuse my words in your interpretation of them. Where did I say that Farmar "couldn't get a minimal offer in the NBA" when I just stated that he "has a place in the NBA with his skillset"? The two seem to be contradictory to me. Another fallacy would be citing Farmar's leadership ability and presumed success overseas as some how and in some way being relevant to NBA success. You know who else "kicked ass" overseas? Stephon Marbury, a player much more talented than Farmar, but similarly was hampered by his own sense of self and ego preventing him from achieving real NBA success. Farmar's leadership abilities thus far have led his three most recent NBA teams to an overall record of 73-157 for a 31.7% winning percentage, where he's played big roles for those respective ballclubs. Plus-minus may be incomplete (like I said), but I'll take that over "overseas kick-assery".

You're doing a better job than me of arguing that he belongs overseas playing basketball than in the NBA, so I don't get why you're up in arms when I point out his deficiencies. You're happy with Farmar as is. Well, good for you. You see what you want to see. I, on the other hand, want him to be better than he has been for our Los Angeles Clippers in order for us to achieve the ultimate goal of winning "Larry's".

[McAdoo]

I tend to agree with Ranma more, but I really hope Xepa is the one who is right. Lol He seemed to have a pretty good season last year on a terrible team so I can see him getting open a whole lot more on this talented Clippers squad.

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[ejftw]

Farmar is not a downgrade from Collison, and if he is, it is microscopic. Health is the main concern when it comes to Ear Jordan.

I've followed both guys since HS (saw Farmar v Nick Young, Taft vs Cleveland, and it was a thing of beaut). Collison at Etiwanda was just shocking as well, and, outside of the Holiday brothers (Jrue & Aaron, who is in his Sr. year @ Campbell Hall, I'd suggest, if you have nothing to do, to peep into a a game and see him destroy), they are the third/fourth best players I've seen at that level (#5 would be Spencer Dinwiddie).

[Quake Griffin]

Farmar is not a downgrade from Collison, and if he is, it is microscopic. Health is the main concern when it comes to Ear Jordan.

I've followed both guys since HS (saw Farmar v Nick Young, Taft vs Cleveland, and it was a thing of beaut). Collison at Etiwanda was just shocking as well, and, outside of the Holiday brothers (Jrue & Aaron, who is in his Sr. year @ Campbell Hall, I'd suggest, if you have nothing to do, to peep into a a game and see him destroy), they are the third/fourth best players I've seen at that level (#5 would be Spencer Dinwiddie).

wait...

ur saying.
1. Jrue
2. Aaron
3. Farmar
4. Collion
5. Dinwiddie

????