Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 4

[Hidden Eye]

Are you saying that Varejao has none of those qualities?

Yes

He can score but not a big time scorer and never was a good defensive person. Mophead is already past his time.

Why would Varejao need to be a big-time scorer with Lebron, Love and Irving on the roster? His role will be (and should be) to set screens, make good passes, grab offensive rebounds, and convert when he gets the ball inside. Not sure what skills Varejao is missing to play that role.

As for his defense -- Varejao is a very good defender (and has been throughout his NBA career). Watching him says so (at least to me), and the various defensive measures we have available agree (good on/off, good RAPM, good marks in the defense part of my metric). I'm curious why you think he's not a good defender.

As for him being past his prime -- I'd expect so. He turns 32 next month. But, his contract expires at the end of this season. He's had more than his share of injuries, so the real question on him is whether his body will hold up enough this season for him to be the quality contributor he normally is when healthy. The Cavs can find someone else for the future.

He can't score period that's where I was getting at unless a setup which I don't expect to see a lot of.Anybody can pass in this league his "skill" is nothing special. He can't rebound either I don't count those inflated stats past few seasons because of the games he played.

Hee doesn't have the same impact as others on team/doesn't make a big difference on the team. His contributions won't be much.

[dckingsfan]

I would argue that this year's Cleveland team (post assimilation) will be better than last year's Heat team.

At PG, I think there is a clear advantage over last year's Heat squad. I think that Love is quite a bit better than Bosh. And the other positions are essentially a wash.

[Ruzious]

Yes

He can score but not a big time scorer and never was a good defensive person. Mophead is already past his time.

Why would Varejao need to be a big-time scorer with Lebron, Love and Irving on the roster? His role will be (and should be) to set screens, make good passes, grab offensive rebounds, and convert when he gets the ball inside. Not sure what skills Varejao is missing to play that role.

As for his defense -- Varejao is a very good defender (and has been throughout his NBA career). Watching him says so (at least to me), and the various defensive measures we have available agree (good on/off, good RAPM, good marks in the defense part of my metric). I'm curious why you think he's not a good defender.

As for him being past his prime -- I'd expect so. He turns 32 next month. But, his contract expires at the end of this season. He's had more than his share of injuries, so the real question on him is whether his body will hold up enough this season for him to be the quality contributor he normally is when healthy. The Cavs can find someone else for the future.

He can't score period that's where I was getting at unless a setup which I don't expect to see a lot of.Anybody can pass in this league his "skill" is nothing special. He can't rebound either I don't count those inflated stats past few seasons because of the games he played.

Hee doesn't have the same impact as others on team/doesn't make a big difference on the team. His contributions won't be much.

I was going to offer you a shovel, but it looks like you don't need one.

[Ruzious]

I never was a purple cow.
I never hope to see one.
But I can tell you anyhow
I'd rather see than be one.
- Ogen Nash

Ah yes I wrote the Purple Cow.
I'm sorry that I wrote it.
But I can tell you anyhow
I'll kill you if you quote it.
- Ogden Nash

Sorry Og. It's your legacy.

[TGW]

Definetely none of those qualities and most of these stretch 4s can't play defense excluding Bosh.

Are you saying that Varejao has none of those qualities?

Yes

He can score but not a big time scorer and never was a good defensive person. Mophead is already past his time.

You have to be kidding right?

2010 Second Team All Defense

Varejao is a solid player. You're completely wrong on this.

[Nivek]

He can't score period that's where I was getting at unless a setup which I don't expect to see a lot of.Anybody can pass in this league his "skill" is nothing special. He can't rebound either I don't count those inflated stats past few seasons because of the games he played.

Hee doesn't have the same impact as others on team/doesn't make a big difference on the team. His contributions won't be much.

Don't have the time to unpack all this. The data disagrees with your opinion.

[Hidden Eye]

Are you saying that Varejao has none of those qualities?

Yes

He can score but not a big time scorer and never was a good defensive person. Mophead is already past his time.

You have to be kidding right?

2010 Second Team All Defense

Varejao is a solid player. You're completely wrong on this.

And Noahs DMVP was legit right?

[Hidden Eye]

I would argue that this year's Cleveland team (post assimilation) will be better than last year's Heat team.

At PG, I think there is a clear advantage over last year's Heat squad. I think that Love is quite a bit better than Bosh. And the other positions are essentially a wash.

Def not Bosh/Wade/Lebron is better than Lebron/Love/Kyrie because they have real experience and they had 4 years to play with each other compared to 1.

[TGW]

Yes

He can score but not a big time scorer and never was a good defensive person. Mophead is already past his time.

You have to be kidding right?

2010 Second Team All Defense

Varejao is a solid player. You're completely wrong on this.

And Noahs DMVP was legit right?

Sure it was....just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not legitimate.

[montestewart]

OK Hidden Eye, define a good defensive center, good post defense, good help defense, etc., and name your picks for top five or so defensive centers. I just want to know what the hell you're talking about.

PS: You are on record as saying Varejao is not a good rebounder. Can you elaborate on this?

[Hidden Eye]

OK Hidden Eye, define a good defensive center, good post defense, good help defense, etc., and name your picks for top five or so defensive centers. I just want to know what the hell you're talking about.

PS: You are on record as saying Varejao is not a good rebounder. Can you elaborate on this?

Anybody other than Varejao

He has inflated stats past two seasons in rebounding (games played) so I don't consider those real stats.

Mophead has no impact anymore.

[montestewart]

OK Hidden Eye, define a good defensive center, good post defense, good help defense, etc., and name your picks for top five or so defensive centers. I just want to know what the hell you're talking about.

PS: You are on record as saying Varejao is not a good rebounder. Can you elaborate on this?

Anybody other than Varejao

He has inflated stats past two seasons in rebounding (games played) so I don't consider those real stats.

Mophead has no impact anymore.

In other words, Noah.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qEsTXVj57M[/youtube]

[dckingsfan]

I would argue that this year's Cleveland team (post assimilation) will be better than last year's Heat team.

At PG, I think there is a clear advantage over last year's Heat squad. I think that Love is quite a bit better than Bosh. And the other positions are essentially a wash.

Def not Bosh/Wade/Lebron is better than Lebron/Love/Kyrie because they have real experience and they had 4 years to play with each other compared to 1.

1) I said "post assimilation", it will take some time.
2) I think that Wade was hurt a good part of the season so the formula should be Bosh, 1/2 Wade, Lebron
3) Because it was 1/2 Wade I don't think there was a huge advantage at SG but their would be at PG

But I can understand your opinion - just don't agree.

[dckingsfan]

Wow, I think Anderson Varejao is a good defender (not great) and very good defensive rebounder - I don't see any inflation in those numbers. He isn't a very good shot blocker - and that would be very useful for this team. But if he stays healthy (and that is the big knock), I think he will be a big time contributor for Cleveland.

[Ruzious]

Feeling sorry for the rabid T-Pups fans. Flip really learned the "strive for mediocrity" theme well in Washington. Philly continues to acquire valuable future pieces that one day may end up in a great team... or not.

[dckingsfan]

OK, guess the trade is complete - lineup until they sign Ray Allen or Shawn Marion or both...

C: Anderson Varejao, Brendan Haywood
PF: Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson
SF: LeBron James, James Jones
SG: Dion Waiters, Mike Miller
PG: Kyrie Irving, Matthew Dellavedova, John Lucas III

Not adjusting my win prediction down. Even before the trade I had it 3-1. Might even be 2-2 if we can get our wins before they become adjusted as a team.

Do you think they are done or do they try to trade for another defensive rebounder/shot blocker?

[closg00]

OK, guess the trade is complete - lineup until they sign Ray Allen or Shawn Marion or both...

C: Anderson Varejao, Brendan Haywood
PF: Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson
SF: LeBron James, James Jones
SG: Dion Waiters, Mike Miller
PG: Kyrie Irving, Matthew Dellavedova, John Lucas III

Not adjusting my win prediction down. Even before the trade I had it 3-1. Might even be 2-2 if we can get our wins before they become adjusted as a team.

Do you think they are done or do they try to trade for another defensive rebounder/shot blocker?

Per the tap, they also signed their 2nd round (45th) pick Dwight Powell for good measure. Those damn, worthless 2nd picks

[DCZards]

OK, guess the trade is complete - lineup until they sign Ray Allen or Shawn Marion or both...

C: Anderson Varejao, Brendan Haywood
PF: Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson
SF: LeBron James, James Jones
SG: Dion Waiters, Mike Miller
PG: Kyrie Irving, Matthew Dellavedova, John Lucas III

Not adjusting my win prediction down. Even before the trade I had it 3-1. Might even be 2-2 if we can get our wins before they become adjusted as a team.

Do you think they are done or do they try to trade for another defensive rebounder/shot blocker?

Per the tap, they also signed their 2nd round (45th) pick Dwight Powell for good measure. Those damn, worthless 2nd picks

Well, at this point we really don't know whether Powell will be a worthless 2nd round pick or not. Just because the Cavs signed him doesn't mean he can play. He probably won't even dress for most games.

[closg00]

OK, guess the trade is complete - lineup until they sign Ray Allen or Shawn Marion or both...

C: Anderson Varejao, Brendan Haywood
PF: Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson
SF: LeBron James, James Jones
SG: Dion Waiters, Mike Miller
PG: Kyrie Irving, Matthew Dellavedova, John Lucas III

Not adjusting my win prediction down. Even before the trade I had it 3-1. Might even be 2-2 if we can get our wins before they become adjusted as a team.

Do you think they are done or do they try to trade for another defensive rebounder/shot blocker?

Per the tap, they also signed their 2nd round (45th) pick Dwight Powell for good measure. Those damn, worthless 2nd picks

Well, at this point we really don't know whether Powell will be a worthless 2nd round pick or not. Just because the Cavs signed him doesn't mean he can play. He probably won't even dress for most games.

No-kidding Zard, Powell may or may-not have a future in the NBA, but the move is more Spurs-like then Wizards-like isn't it?

[TASTIC]

First, I come in peace!

Second, I think I rate Brad Beal much higher than some of my fellow Suns fans, but would the Wiz look at a deal centered around a re-signed Bledsoe for Beal? Suns would obviously need to take back some filler deals like Dre or Webster.

I suggested Suns would need to sweeten the deal by adding Marcus Morris and a pick, but not sure if that would be needed? I'm genuinely curious as to the value of Beal (and Bledsoe for that matter) on your board.

Would the Wiz (obviously the Kentucky connection) prefer a Wall/Bledsoe backcourt locked up long-term to a Wall/Beal one?

Personally I think Beal has the potential to be the best SG in the league and he'd go OFF next to Dragic in our system...And Bledsoe would thrive next to Wall and allow Pierce to be more a catch and shoot guy/corner 3s shooter at this stage in his career.

Would also free up time for Porter/Rice to get some more PT as Webster would be on the out.

Interested in your thoughts, cheers!