Fake Trade Thread 2014-15

[Braggins]

I know Im a Smith fan and am higher on him than most but my main motivation for wanting to explore this kind of deal is that I think that Marvin being our starting PF is much more of a concern than Hendo being our starting SG was. I wont be surprised if very early in the season we realize that Marvin is done and are forced to start Zeller which would leave us even more starved for offense and shooting that we were last year. If Smith can be coached and mesh with our locker room he could actually put us over the top and make us legitimate contenders in a year or two.

[BeesWax]

I know Im a Smith fan and am higher on him than most but my main motivation for wanting to explore this kind of deal is that I think that Marvin being our starting PF is much more of a concern than Hendo being our starting SG was. I wont be surprised if very early in the season we realize that Marvin is done and are forced to start Zeller which would leave us even more starved for offense and shooting that we were last year. If Smith can be coached and mesh with our locker room he could actually put us over the top and make us legitimate contenders in a year or two.

Smith doesn't help spacing unless he is jacking up terrible shots. Smith is an overpaid disaster and bad offensive player in terms of efficiency. At least if we use Marvin or Zeller they won't shoot us out of games like Smith with and together don't cost as much as smith does.

[catch20two]

Everybody so worried about our outside shooting. I'm more concerned with our inside defense. Big Al and Messy Marv ain't stopping nothing in the paint.

[Braggins]

I know Im a Smith fan and am higher on him than most but my main motivation for wanting to explore this kind of deal is that I think that Marvin being our starting PF is much more of a concern than Hendo being our starting SG was. I wont be surprised if very early in the season we realize that Marvin is done and are forced to start Zeller which would leave us even more starved for offense and shooting that we were last year. If Smith can be coached and mesh with our locker room he could actually put us over the top and make us legitimate contenders in a year or two.

Smith doesn't help spacing unless he is jacking up terrible shots. Smith is an overpaid disaster and bad offensive player in terms of efficiency. At least if we use Marvin or Zeller they won't shoot us out of games like Smith with and together don't cost as much as smith does.

You are completely judging Smith based on one bad season in Detroit. He has had years where he shot over 30% on 2-3 attempts which is about all we should expect from Marvin but Smith actually can improve us in other areas a lot. Smith is actually a solid shooter when he is engaged and taking good shots and he can keep defenses honest. There is more evidence in favor of Smith being a quite good player than there is for him being what he was in Detroit last season and he has led multiple teams farther than Big Al has led any of his teams. It wouod be a risk because you cant be sure what you will get from Smith at this point but people are way too quick to completely write him off. Also, people should keep in mind that he played very well as a high post playmaker with Horford playing in the low post which is the same offensive dynamic we would have with him and Al.

[HornetJail]

I do wonder if we gave Marvin a bigger contract to help facilitate trades for players with larger salaries.

Apparently Bledsoe is very much on the trade block. How much would folks be willing to give up to get him?

Then we should have made it a one-year deal, not two. See what the Warriors did with Kwame Brown. They signed him to like a 1 year, 8M contract or something ridiculous and then packaged him with Ellis in the Bogut deal.

Who in their right mind would do it for a 2-year deal?

[James Gatz]

I do wonder if we gave Marvin a bigger contract to help facilitate trades for players with larger salaries.

Apparently Bledsoe is very much on the trade block. How much would folks be willing to give up to get him?

Then we should have made it a one-year deal, not two. See what the Warriors did with Kwame Brown. They signed him to like a 1 year, 8M contract or something ridiculous and then packaged him with Ellis in the Bogut deal.

Who in their right mind would do it for a 2-year deal?

It's because with our cap outlook signing a two year contract doesn't hurt us. In the 2016 season Henderson, Marv, Al (if he doesn't opt out), MKG, and if we decided so Lance will all be off the books. If this current core doesn't make it past the first round we will be able to start over with Kemba and lots of cap flexibility.

[TheKingofSting]

Everybody so worried about our outside shooting. I'm more concerned with our inside defense. Big Al and Messy Marv ain't stopping nothing in the paint.

You have to get into the paint to score in the paint. I trust Coach Cliff and the staff.

[BeesWax]

I know Im a Smith fan and am higher on him than most but my main motivation for wanting to explore this kind of deal is that I think that Marvin being our starting PF is much more of a concern than Hendo being our starting SG was. I wont be surprised if very early in the season we realize that Marvin is done and are forced to start Zeller which would leave us even more starved for offense and shooting that we were last year. If Smith can be coached and mesh with our locker room he could actually put us over the top and make us legitimate contenders in a year or two.

Smith doesn't help spacing unless he is jacking up terrible shots. Smith is an overpaid disaster and bad offensive player in terms of efficiency. At least if we use Marvin or Zeller they won't shoot us out of games like Smith with and together don't cost as much as smith does.

You are completely judging Smith based on one bad season in Detroit. He has had years where he shot over 30% on 2-3 attempts which id about all we should expect from Marvin but Smith actually can improve us in other areas a lot. Smith is actually a solid shooter when he is engaged and taking good shots and he can keep defenses honest. There is more evidence in favor of Smith being a quite good player than there is for him being what he was in Detroit last season and he has led multiple teams farther than Big Al has led any of his teams. It wouod be a risk because you cant be sure what you will get from Smith at this point but people are way too quick to completely write him off. Also, people should keep in mind that he played very well as a high post playmaker with Horford playing in the low post which is the same offensive dynamic we would have with him and Al.

Nope. Judging both on their full careers. Smith shoots for his career 28% from three and Williams shoot 33.5% from three. Marvin hasn't shot below 32.5% from three since 09-10. If the contracts were the same then Smith would be worth it but for what he is paid he helps 0 right now. He does not improve spacing and he makes way to many bonehead plays. Smith has had only two seasons over 30% from three in his entire career. Smith is a dumb player on a star contract. Could he help here? Sure but at that price he won't be worth the little help he provides.

[BeesWax]

Everybody so worried about our outside shooting. I'm more concerned with our inside defense. Big Al and Messy Marv ain't stopping nothing in the paint.

Defense was fine last season and we got a better defender at the SG spot and a defender who is just as good at PF. It isn't like McRoberts was a big time stopper.

[TheKingofSting]

McBob is a good shot blocker but that is about it.

[Braggins]

Everybody so worried about our outside shooting. I'm more concerned with our inside defense. Big Al and Messy Marv ain't stopping nothing in the paint.

Defense was fine last season and we got a better defender at the SG spot and a defender who is just as good at PF. It isn't like McRoberts was a big time stopper.

Marvin probably is worse on defense at PF than McBob but it isn't by a whole lot. I'm more worried about what is going to happen when the entire league starts to pick up on what the smart teams did to us last year and force Al to play PnR defense all game while we have no rim protector to back him up. That is why teams with PnR ballhandlers who can hit the mid range pullup or are Lebron just absolutely worked us. I think our scheme and overall personnel are good enough that we will still have a very good defense but we might not be as good as we think we should be once more teams figure out how to break us down. This will only be made worse by being even more soft inside than we were last year. Having an actual good defender at PF who can protect the rim would help. I wish Vonleh could somehow be ready by the all star break.

[Braggins]

I never thought it was possible for me to miss McBob so much. We really should have resigned him. There would be basically no need to talk about making any big moves at this point unless something we couldn't refuse fell into our lap.

[Braggins]

Smith doesn't help spacing unless he is jacking up terrible shots. Smith is an overpaid disaster and bad offensive player in terms of efficiency. At least if we use Marvin or Zeller they won't shoot us out of games like Smith with and together don't cost as much as smith does.

You are completely judging Smith based on one bad season in Detroit. He has had years where he shot over 30% on 2-3 attempts which id about all we should expect from Marvin but Smith actually can improve us in other areas a lot. Smith is actually a solid shooter when he is engaged and taking good shots and he can keep defenses honest. There is more evidence in favor of Smith being a quite good player than there is for him being what he was in Detroit last season and he has led multiple teams farther than Big Al has led any of his teams. It wouod be a risk because you cant be sure what you will get from Smith at this point but people are way too quick to completely write him off. Also, people should keep in mind that he played very well as a high post playmaker with Horford playing in the low post which is the same offensive dynamic we would have with him and Al.

Nope. Judging both on their full careers. Smith shoots for his career 28% from three and Williams shoot 33.5% from three. Marvin hasn't shot below 32.5% from three since 09-10. If the contracts were the same then Smith would be worth it but for what he is paid he helps 0 right now. He does not improve spacing and he makes way to many bonehead plays. Smith has had only two seasons over 30% from three in his entire career. Smith is a dumb player on a star contract. Could he help here? Sure but at that price he won't be worth the little help he provides.

I didn't say Smith was as good of a shooter as Marvin. I literally said that he is good enough to keep defenses honest if he takes good looks. I said he has had 30%+ on 2-3 attempts seasons a few times and that is "about" what we should expect from Marvin, both of which are true. If you feel generous and count the season he shot 29.9% he has had four season at or above 30%. His shot isn't bad by any means its just not good enough to use more than sparingly which has generally been the case for his career, unless we are pretending he has played one NBA season and that was in 2013-2014 for the Pistons, which you are apparently doing. You are judging him as an overall player based on that one season. If he plays smart (which I admit is an "if") it wouldn't hurt our spacing to have him instead of Marvin especially when you consider that he is actually capable of creating and causing the defense to rotate as opposed to Marvin who pretty much isn't going to give us anything other than some occasional 3's. Marvin isn't even some kind of impressive floor spacer or anything and that is apparently what his calling card is supposed to be at this point. Marvin Williams isn't going to make teams scared to double team Al. Teams will pack the paint against us either way and its not like Al even passes out of double teams anyways. Smith has been a far better player than Marvin ever was for most of his career (remember, he played in the NBA before 2013). We wouldn't need him to be a first option or anything close to our leading scorer. He can make a big impact being a 12 shots a game guy and defensive stopper. Obviously if Smith came in and couldn't be controlled and was hoisting up terribly jumpers it would be very bad. I find it hard to believe that he is completely broken from one season though. If he came in and was Josh Smith from a couple years ago and our chemistry remained in tact we are possibly talking about a 50 win team that would have an outside shot at making it to the finals. To say that Smith isn't capable of being anything more than a slight upgrade over Marvin seems a little out there to me. Sorry for the long posts. I've been dying to have something Hornets related to talk about.

[BeesWax]

I didn't say Smith was as good of a shooter as Marvin. I literally said that he is good enough to keep defenses honest if he takes good looks. I said he has had 30%+ on 2-3 attempts seasons a few times and that is "about" what we should expect from Marvin, both of which are true. If you feel generous and count the season he shot 29.9% he has had four season at or above 30%. His shot isn't bad by any means its just not good enough to use more than sparingly which has generally been the case for his career, unless we are pretending he has played one NBA season and that was in 2013-2014 for the Pistons, which you are apparently doing. You are judging him as an overall player based on that one season. If he plays smart (which I admit is an "if") it wouldn't hurt our spacing to have him instead of Marvin especially when you consider that he is actually capable of creating and causing the defense to rotate as opposed to Marvin who pretty much isn't going to give us anything other than some occasional 3's. Marvin isn't even some kind of impressive floor spacer or anything and that is apparently what his calling card is supposed to be at this point. Marvin Williams isn't going to make teams scared to double team Al. Teams will pack the paint against us either way and its not like Al even passes out of double teams anyways. Smith has been a far better player than Marvin ever was for most of his career (remember, he played in the NBA before 2013). We wouldn't need him to be a first option or anything close to our leading scorer. He can make a big impact being a 12 shots a game guy and defensive stopper. Obviously if Smith came in and couldn't be controlled and was hoisting up terribly jumpers it would be very bad. I find it hard to believe that he is completely broken from one season though. If he came in and was Josh Smith from a couple years ago and our chemistry remained in tact we are possibly talking about a 50 win team that would have an outside shot at making it to the finals. To say that Smith isn't capable of being anything more than a slight upgrade over Marvin seems a little out there to me. Sorry for the long posts. I've been dying to have something Hornets related to talk about.

To look at the offensive production of these two OVER THEIR ENTIRE TIME IN THE LEAGUE and say Smith is way better is just awful. Smith has no brain on the offensive end of the court and has only had one season where he was smart enough to stop shooting. If YOU would actually look at the numbers this is very very very very very easy to see and why pretty much everyone wants nothing to do with this guy. You keep saying one season but on his last 4 seasons he has been jacking up threes. He is a bone head getting paid 14 million a year for the next three years. If you actually look at the numbers and what he does on the court he is not a huge upgrade and for his price tag is actually worse.

Smith has put up better numbers because he has jacked up more shots. If they shot the same number per game then Marvin would win out because of his range and % advantages. Marvin was brought in for a purpose and for what they want he is better than Smith will ever be.

Josh Smith is a role player on a star contract. If a coach wanted him to be a helpful player he would have to spend an entire season beating him over the head after he screwed up and took a dumb shot. He is not a good fit nor is he a good value.

[BeesWax]

Everybody so worried about our outside shooting. I'm more concerned with our inside defense. Big Al and Messy Marv ain't stopping nothing in the paint.

Defense was fine last season and we got a better defender at the SG spot and a defender who is just as good at PF. It isn't like McRoberts was a big time stopper.

Marvin probably is worse on defense at PF than McBob but it isn't by a whole lot. I'm more worried about what is going to happen when the entire league starts to pick up on what the smart teams did to us last year and force Al to play PnR defense all game while we have no rim protector to back him up. That is why teams with PnR ballhandlers who can hit the mid range pullup or are Lebron just absolutely worked us. I think our scheme and overall personnel are good enough that we will still have a very good defense but we might not be as good as we think we should be once more teams figure out how to break us down. This will only be made worse by being even more soft inside than we were last year. Having an actual good defender at PF who can protect the rim would help. I wish Vonleh could somehow be ready by the all star break.

There is not a player out there that can fix this problem by themselves. This is a Al problem not a PF problem. Al has to have a stretch 4 to clear him space because of his lack of speed and needs a rim protector because of his lack of speed. There are really not many guys like this in the league. The best fit next to Al would be Ibaka and other than that you get one or the other. If Vonleh can learn to be that it would be great but by the time he is ready Al may be done.

[BobsBuddy]

Now that Young has gone from Philly to the Wolves here's a trade that would help us and Philly immediately. Having Neal a 3 point shooter as 1 year rental and adding Taylor a young SF/SG prospect would make sense for Philly. Trading Sims,I think they might bite for as they are loaded with 1st round draft pick centers. Sims is better than Biz as a backup center to Jefferson and Moultrie adds a Brute in the paint allowing Williams to play more at SF if necessary. We get back to 3 SG and add depth up front on defense and rebounding.
Trade Checker # 6506108 Moultrie/Sims for Neal and Taylor
KW Roberts Pargo
Lance,Hendo PJ
MKG (Williams and Hendo) rotate in as Backups
Williams,Zeller,Vonleh,Moultrie
Al Sims Biz

[BeesWax]

:o Now that Young has gone from Philly to the Wolves here's a trade that would help us and Philly immediately. Having Neal a 3 point shooter as 1 year rental and adding Taylor a young SF/SG prospect would make sense for Philly. Trading Sims,I think they might bite for as they are loaded with 1st round draft pick centers. Sims is better than Biz as a backup center to Jefferson and Moultrie adds a Brute in the paint allowing Williams to play more at SF if necessary. We get back to 3 SG and add depth up front on defense and rebounding.
Trade Checker # 6506108 Moultrie/Sims for Neal and Taylor
KW Roberts Pargo
Lance,Hendo PJ
MKG (Williams and Hendo) rotate in as Backups
Williams,Zeller,Vonleh,Moultrie
Al Sims Biz

Eh. Sort of seems like a trade just to make a trade. Does not really make us any better and changes our logjam from SG to PF. Picking up and end of the bench C and PF is not really useful.

[BobsBuddy]

Trade Checker 6506121 AK47 for Neal and still rotate Williams but get bigger. Ak47 plays 3 or 4.??

[JDR720]

i wonder if Bernard James is available (assuming he is still in Dallas and not a FA)

[KingExecutive]

i wonder if Bernard James is available (assuming he is still in Dallas and not a FA)

He just signed back (or is finalizing a contract) with Dallas