Some Observations From Afar

[umfan83]

Noah is not the 5th best player between the two teams. Come on, now.

I do think it isn't far fetched to say that this Cavs team is better than the 2010 Heat though. They fit better offensively and are deeper, but they haven't any playoff experience.

Lack of defense is overblown. We're better if they are going to be downright bad defensively. However, I just don't see that.

Lol Noah was 1st team all nba but he's the 5th best player on the court between Cavs and Bulls?

[Mech Engineer]

Noah is not the 5th best player between the two teams. Come on, now.

I do think it isn't far fetched to say that this Cavs team is better than the 2010 Heat though. They fit better offensively and are deeper, but they haven't any playoff experience.

Lack of defense is overblown. We're better if they are going to be downright bad defensively. However, I just don't see that.

Lol Noah was 1st team all nba but he's the 5th best player on the court between Cavs and Bulls?

Well, Noah struggled in the playoffs because he was 1st Team All NBA for the regular season..but, how did Kyrie and Love do in the playoffs? That's the problem of absolute rankings like this.

[fleet]

The Bulls will have elite defense, The Cavs will have elite offense.

The Bulls offense ain't bad with Rose. Will the Bulls offense be better than the Cavs defense? That is the shop question. Along with who can make more clutch plays down the stretch. I believe Rose can go toe to toe in that department with Lebron. The Cavs won't be able to stuff Rose in key moments the way the Heat could. While Lebron faces Butler and the Bulls bigs. If anybody thinks this is clear one way or another, I very much disagree if Rose is back.

[fleet]

Then, in that case, would Love be the pressure outlet? Not so sure about that. Love is a great early game scorer. He becomes downright mediocre as the game goes on. Can the Bulls find some other scoring to match Love down the stretch if Rose and Lebron stand it off? Nothing says the Bulls can't do that. Certainly not Love's record

[waffle]

The Bulls will have elite defense, The Cavs will have elite offense.

The Bulls offense ain't bad with Rose. Will the Bulls offense be better than the Cavs defense? That is the shop question. Along with who can make more clutch plays down the stretch. I believe Rose can go toe to toe in that department with Lebron. The Cavs won't be able to stuff Rose in key moments the way the Heat could. While Lebron faces Butler and the Bulls bigs. If anybody thinks this is clear one way or another, I very much disagree if Rose is back.

very much what I argued previously.

To me the wild card is how good the bulls offense becomes. If it is top 1/3rd or so I think the bulls will have the best record in the East.

I am a HUGE Love fan but I think against the Bulls he may well be average. They are long and fast and play smothering D. He'll get his boards and put backs but will not kill us from mid range and out.

Any team with Bron, though, is officially a nightmare.

[fleet]

The Bulls will have elite defense, The Cavs will have elite offense.

The Bulls offense ain't bad with Rose. Will the Bulls offense be better than the Cavs defense? That is the shop question. Along with who can make more clutch plays down the stretch. I believe Rose can go toe to toe in that department with Lebron. The Cavs won't be able to stuff Rose in key moments the way the Heat could. While Lebron faces Butler and the Bulls bigs. If anybody thinks this is clear one way or another, I very much disagree if Rose is back.

very much what I argued previously.

To me the wild card is how good the bulls offense becomes. If it is top 1/3rd or so I think the bulls will have the best record in the East.

I am a HUGE Love fan but I think against the Bulls he may well be average. They are long and fast and play smothering D. He'll get his boards and put backs but will not kill us from mid range and out.

Any team with Bron, though, is officially a nightmare.

We will carry that flag together. These Bulls might be the 90s Pistons that squashed a green Bulls team. Probably not. But these Bulls might be the Jazz, Suns, or Sonics in the 90s that scared those Bulls, and had a real shot. But those Bulls were already a solid unit against those teams. These Cavs have some questions to answer before they become a unit.

[johnnyvann840]

If Noah's your second best player, I think there's some issues.

[/quote]

I don't. Your second best player being 1st Team All NBA and the reigning DPOY, allstar. Arguably the best Center in the EC is not such a bad thing. He's certainly not the 2nd best offensive player- if he were, yeah, we would have an issue. Bill Russell was never an offensive powerhouse, or even efficient for that matter. But he was the best player on the floor almost every time he stepped on it- on a team that won 8 Titles in a row.

[musiqsoulchild]

I myself have been guilty of this: I underrate Noah pretty heavily.

I shouldnt but I keep thinking Gasol + Taj is a better finishing front court.

[RedBulls23]

If each team's best players are on the court, Cleveland has 3 of the 4 best players. Coldfish is right; on paper 2014 Cleveland is better than 2010 Miami. Carlos Arroyo and Joel Anthony were Miami's starting point guard and center on opening night in 2010. Cleveland's starting lineup has one of the league's more underrated players in Anderson Varejao and an enigma in Dion Waiters. It's also worth noting that Chicago doesn't possess the same rebounding advantage they held against Miami. Love and Varejao are both elite rebounders at their position.

Cleveland is going to be really good and there's no argument from me if anyone considers them the favorite. Even if Rose returns to MVP mode, Chicago is still a scorer away from closing a small, but noticeable gap.

What has Kyrie done to show that he's better than Noah?

If Rose is fully healthy and back, Kyrie is the 5th best player over-all amongst the two teams.

You talk about what Noah did last year in the playoffs...Kyrie can't even lead a team to the playoffs.

[musiqsoulchild]

If each team's best players are on the court, Cleveland has 3 of the 4 best players. Coldfish is right; on paper 2014 Cleveland is better than 2010 Miami. Carlos Arroyo and Joel Anthony were Miami's starting point guard and center on opening night in 2010. Cleveland's starting lineup has one of the league's more underrated players in Anderson Varejao and an enigma in Dion Waiters. It's also worth noting that Chicago doesn't possess the same rebounding advantage they held against Miami. Love and Varejao are both elite rebounders at their position.

Cleveland is going to be really good and there's no argument from me if anyone considers them the favorite. Even if Rose returns to MVP mode, Chicago is still a scorer away from closing a small, but noticeable gap.

What has Kyrie done to show that he's better than Noah?

If Rose is fully healthy and back, Kyrie is the 5th best player over-all amongst the two teams.

You talk about what Noah did last year in the playoffs...Kyrie can't even lead a team to the playoffs.

Its a bias against primarly defense oriented players.

However, Noah is so much more than that on court. He fricking leads fastbreaks. On the regular.

On defense, he covers large areas of space.....something we will need when Cleveland swings the ball to try and activate their shooters.

Noah at 30 MPG in the playoffs is a game changer. And a game winner.

[2015nbachamps]

kevin Love is essentially their second best player...and regualr season wise i expect love to be better than gasol.

But head to head Gasol has outplayed him going back since Love came in the league...I expec that to continue to for at least this year and maybe next year as well. I fully expect lebron and being on a better team certainly help Love's game...but so will the Bulls pverall team defense help Gasol.

Edge Gasol which essentially make gasol the 3rd best player in this series...and it not unthinkable that Noah will be the 5th best player.

Head to head I have it:

1. Lebron


2. Rose

3. Gasol
4. Love
5. Noah
6. Taj
7. Irving
8. Miller
9. Butler
10. Allen (assuming he signs)

Lebron is far and away the best player but head ot head I see the Bulls having 4 out of the best/most important top 6 players on the court. I purposely left Mcderm off the list but if he is what i think he is then he cracks the top 6 as well.

Bulls in 6

[2015nbachamps]

2 things never get talked about when talking about Bulls cavs:

1. Our high low game with Gasol and Noah. Its entirely possible that our high low game is historically good...Gasol has never played with another elite passing big man and neither has Noah. This twin tower/ high-low game could be epic...near Tim duncan/David Robinson levels...both guys pass the ball really well and both take advantages of mismatches under the hoop really well especially Gasol. I mean, this gets so little mention on this board but is going to be a huge factor for us.

2. Jimmy Butler shoots really well and gets in the paint really well and draws fouls at a really high rate when he does get int the paint...he does all this really well when he isnt gassed...his 1st and 3rd quarter stats are near elite levels and his 2nd and 4th quarter splits are aweful...he is simply gassed...he is playing too many minutes and doing too much. Playing him 15 less minutes per game and giving those minutes to some combo of Hinrich/snell/Rose (with brooks at PG) is going to do wonders for him and out overall offensive efficiency.

[Red Larrivee]

Gasol is better than Love and Taj is better than Irving? Oh boy.

[DanTown8587]

Last year 58 players averaged at least 15 points per game and qualified for the scoring title. In terms of TS%, their ranks

James - 1 (.649)
Love - 10 (.591)
Irving - 39 (.533)

Derrick's MVP year if it happened last year? 33 (.550).

The Cavs have three players who absolutely fit and I can see Blatt doing is play Irving a lot with the second unit and keep all those guys out there for 48 minutes. Now Kyrie gets to attack without Derrick, doesn't have to defend Derrick (Delladova is a fairly good defender and shooter and the offense with James, Love, and Waiters won't be bad), improves the Cavs defense for a little bit against starters, and it neutralizes the Bulls depth because Iriving can definitely hold his own against 2nd teams.

I really don't think Cleveland will be healthy but if they are, the Bulls simply don't match up with their starting/end five. The Cavs will put Varejao on Gasol to neturalize the size, Love on Noah because it will keep a good rebounder off the glass and Love out of the P&R assuming the Bulls want to run it with Gasol, James/Waiters/Irving will guard the backcourt, and the Cavs will space the floor with four shooters and AV rolling hard down the middle and being a good offensive rebounder, will have space around the rim.

The ease in which people speak of the Bulls defending and scoring against Cleveland DRASTICALLY underrates how difficult it sets up to be.

[DaeDae]

Might as well mail in the season.

Canceling league pass immediately. Guess my posting here will have to end when the season starts, only to resume once Lebron retires.

Geez, some of you guys are worse than Friedell.

[DanTown8587]

Might as well mail in the season.

Canceling league pass immediately. Guess my posting here will have to end when the season starts, only to resume once Lebron retires.

Geez, some of you guys are worse than Friedell.

I don't see anyone saying "no way the Bulls can win, pack it up pack it in" but what a lot of us are acknowledging is that the Cavs have three guys who are high level, take over game scorers and the Bulls MAYBE have one guy who can do that at a similar level and ability.

I felt really good about Chicago until Love went to Cleveland. Not only does Cleveland have the best player in the league on their team, they have a top 5 PF and at worse top 10 PG next to him and both guys are very good shooters that provide an almost unseen type of ability to space and create on the floor.

I'm a fan but first I'm a realist and I realize that asking a guy who has played 10 games out of 164 the last two years to be the savior is a tall order. Or asking a 34 year old to match a 26 year old. Or asking a #11 draft pick to be a high impact scorer.

[Professor Frink]

Last year 58 players averaged at least 15 points per game and qualified for the scoring title. In terms of TS%, their ranks

James - 1 (.649)
Love - 10 (.591)
Irving - 39 (.533)

Derrick's MVP year if it happened last year? 33 (.550).

The Cavs have three players who absolutely fit and I can see Blatt doing is play Irving a lot with the second unit and keep all those guys out there for 48 minutes. Now Kyrie gets to attack without Derrick, doesn't have to defend Derrick (Delladova is a fairly good defender and shooter and the offense with James, Love, and Waiters won't be bad), improves the Cavs defense for a little bit against starters, and it neutralizes the Bulls depth because Iriving can definitely hold his own against 2nd teams.

I really don't think Cleveland will be healthy but if they are, the Bulls simply don't match up with their starting/end five. The Cavs will put Varejao on Gasol to neturalize the size, Love on Noah because it will keep a good rebounder off the glass and Love out of the P&R assuming the Bulls want to run it with Gasol, James/Waiters/Irving will guard the backcourt, and the Cavs will space the floor with four shooters and AV rolling hard down the middle and being a good offensive rebounder, will have space around the rim.

The ease in which people speak of the Bulls defending and scoring against Cleveland DRASTICALLY underrates how difficult it sets up to be.

The Cavs have three outstanding players who fit on offense, but two of them are below average defenders (to put it kindly) and they don't have a good rim protector to make up for their shortcomings. Their best perimeter defender is also their best player (and the oldest of their big three), meaning they're going to have to work Lebron like a dog this year. Two of their big three have no playoff experience. Zero. That's a problem.

I think a lot of people are underestimating Cleveland's weaknesses.

[panthermark]

Might as well mail in the season.

Canceling league pass immediately. Guess my posting here will have to end when the season starts, only to resume once Lebron retires.

Geez, some of you guys are worse than Friedell.

Can you please point out a single post where someone said we should just mail in the season? (And not the sarcastic ones like the one you just posted).

Just because some of us (actually the majority of people outside of the Bulls board) see the Cavs as the stronger team does not mean people want the season mailed in. People are just being realistic. I think we will make it to the ECF's, where we have a pucher's chance (if EVERYTHING breaks our way), but will most likely fall (as constructed). Who knows, maybe the Cavs won't even make it that far.

But the chicken little, mail-it in stuff is lame...especially if you go by most analysts (and betters if looking at odds). Most think the Cavs come out ouf the east.

[panthermark]

The Cavs have three outstanding players who fit on offense, but two of them are below average defenders (to put it kindly) and they don't have a good rim protector to make up for their shortcomings. Their best perimeter defender is also their best player (and the oldest of their big three), meaning they're going to have to work Lebron like a dog this year. Two of their big three have no playoff experience. Zero. That's a problem.

I think a lot of people are underestimating Cleveland's weaknesses.

No, I don't think anyone is underestimating their weakness. I think people just say "people are under estimating their weakness" as if that is a new argument put on the table.

No no has said the Cavs are unbeatable.

The questions is...do we have enough fire power to exploit that weakness because OUR weaknesses are on the offensive end.

We will attack Love in the PnR all day long. But that most likely means Noah or Taj (they will not have Love guarding Gasol) will be a huge part of our scoring offense. I don't know if that is a winning recipe, esecially late in the 4th Q when everything tightens up.

[DanTown8587]

Last year 58 players averaged at least 15 points per game and qualified for the scoring title. In terms of TS%, their ranks

James - 1 (.649)
Love - 10 (.591)
Irving - 39 (.533)

Derrick's MVP year if it happened last year? 33 (.550).

The Cavs have three players who absolutely fit and I can see Blatt doing is play Irving a lot with the second unit and keep all those guys out there for 48 minutes. Now Kyrie gets to attack without Derrick, doesn't have to defend Derrick (Delladova is a fairly good defender and shooter and the offense with James, Love, and Waiters won't be bad), improves the Cavs defense for a little bit against starters, and it neutralizes the Bulls depth because Iriving can definitely hold his own against 2nd teams.

I really don't think Cleveland will be healthy but if they are, the Bulls simply don't match up with their starting/end five. The Cavs will put Varejao on Gasol to neturalize the size, Love on Noah because it will keep a good rebounder off the glass and Love out of the P&R assuming the Bulls want to run it with Gasol, James/Waiters/Irving will guard the backcourt, and the Cavs will space the floor with four shooters and AV rolling hard down the middle and being a good offensive rebounder, will have space around the rim.

The ease in which people speak of the Bulls defending and scoring against Cleveland DRASTICALLY underrates how difficult it sets up to be.

The Cavs have three outstanding players who fit on offense, but two of them are below average defenders (to put it kindly) and they don't have a good rim protector to make up for their shortcomings. Their best perimeter defender is also their best player (and the oldest of their big three), meaning they're going to have to work Lebron like a dog this year. Two of their big three have no playoff experience. Zero. That's a problem.

I think a lot of people are underestimating Cleveland's weaknesses.

Because even if I wanted to say that defense really maters that much, their offense makes them both positive net players and especially Love. I mean basketball is a net game and Love is a fantastic net player as is James. I mean has ANY team ever had this much shooting ability plus ability to drive to the basket on the floor for this much time? We've had threads and discussions about Dion Waiters being an answer for the secondary ball handler and playmaker and he's their fourth option.

The thing is that LeBron won't have to do it all or play 82 games like he did with Miami so he'll be more rested than he has been in years. Last year, the Heat gave Wade a ton of rest and James had to do it most nights. On this team, he won't have to do that. They can alternate Waiters/Marion as needed and James can get a rest on most nights. Plus with the week off for the ASG, there's more rest than usual for a guy like James AND he's slimmed down to be better suited to play 100 games.