Free Agency 2014 Thread

[Jamaaliver]

Where are all of these articles that show Bebe to be a highly regarded Center prospect?? I can't find them anywhere.

when we drafted Bebe, scouts raved about his athleticism, potential and some even compared his ceiling to Joakim Noah. His strengths were clearly on the defensive side of the ball, and since we drafted him he was recognized as the DPOY in Spain. Here are a few blurbs written about Nogueria in the last 13 months:

Strengths: Scouts like [Nogueria's] potential as a rebounder and shot blocker. A 7-footer who moves well and has a 7-6 wingspan will always catch the attention of talent evaluators seeking a defensive anchor. What Scouts Say: "He runs like a deer. When he puts some weight on, he's got the potential to be a starting center." Nogueira moves well, has shown nice aptitude as a shot blocker, grabs effort boards and could be a nice piece down the line.

HERE

The Brazilian 7-footer is an athletic, active rebounder, shot-blocker and scorer with decent handles for his size. He's a great fit for the Hawks, who can pair him with Al Horford, who will be reminded of former college teammate Joakim Noah.

HERE

Hawks draft pick Lucas Nogueira was named Best Defender in Spain’s ACB League Monday. Nogueira is currently playing for Asefa Estudiantes Madrid.

HERE

The Hawks needed bodies, and they got two potential starters in Lucas Nogueira and Dennis Schroeder, a pair of raw but extremely talented foreign imports.

HERE

LUCAS NOGUERIA:
NBA Comparison: Joakim Noah/Samuel Dalembert

Strengths: A project, but one with loads of untapped potential ...

HERE

Nogueira seems to be moving up the board based on his recent improvement and an increased focus on working on his game. He'll be another player drafted on his potential and will likely need another several years in Spain to develop

HERE

Quickly becoming a chic choice among European scouts as the top ranked International player for this year's draft. He made big strides in the past year showing a much greater commitment level to improving his game and staying focused both on and off the court.

HERE

Nogueira is an energetic big man who can dramatically impact his team’s chances on the defensive end of the floor...

HERE

It’s win-win because the Hawks will increase their cap space...On the Raptors side, they get a nice young prospect in Nogueira

HERE

[ATLHawksfan21]

It looks like we have different views as to what highly regarded prospect means.

Potential role players who are basically useless on one end of the court don't fit the description for me. To each his own though.

Highly regarded prospects aren't included as junk in salary dump transactions.

[Jamaaliver]

It looks like we have different views as to what highly regarded prospect means.

Potential role players who are basically useless on one end of the court don't fit the description for me. To each his own though.

Guessing you're not old enough to remember Mutombo in his prime. Ben Wallace in his prime. Tyson Chandler in his prime.

Defensive specialists at the Center position. Each one of them won Defensive Player of the year. Each one of them played for an NBA title. None of them were particularly talented offensive players.

Highly regarded prospects aren't included as junk in salary dump transactions.

He was a project. Every scouting report mentioned that he was years away. You don't draft a project player with the highest draft pick a franchise has acquired in nearly a decade and then give up on him 12 months later.

Especially with NBA ready prospects on the board.

So either Ferry messed up and drafted him too early. Or Ferry messed up and traded him too early before his stock could recover.

Found another one:

He's developing into a real game-changer inside the paint with his phenomenal combination of size, length, mobility, and timing...Despite all the question marks, players with Nogueira's physical tools and talent are rare and coveted commodities.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz39S4bDjo2
http://www.draftexpress.com

[Jamaaliver]

We traded a highly regarded young Center prospect AND an expiring contract and managed to make the team worse. (Bazemore and Thabo help somewhat.)

Do you also actually believe that Thabo/Bazemore/Payne is worse than Lou Acl/Cartier/Ayon?

This really isn't a valid question.

1. Cartier and Ayon have nothing to do with this.

2. Neither does drafting Payne, which occurred before the Bebe/Lou trade.

3. We have cap space to afford Thabo/Bazemore/Payne/Lou/Bebe altogether.

4. Lou had what was possibly his worse season as he recovered from ACL injury. He still had higher PER, win-shares than Bazemore.HERE

5. As an expiring deal, Lou could have been a key component of a trade at anytime this year.

[ATLHawksfan21]

It looks like we have different views as to what highly regarded prospect means.

Potential role players who are basically useless on one end of the court don't fit the description for me. To each his own though.

Guessing you're not old enough to remember
Defensive specialists at the Center position. Each one of them won Defensive Player of the year. Each one of them played for an NBA title. None of them were particularly talented offensive players.


Highly regarded prospects aren't included as junk in salary dump transactions.Mutombo in his prime. Ben Wallace in his prime. Tyson Chandler in his prime.


He was a project. Every scouting report mentioned that he was years away. You don't draft a project player with the highest draft pick a franchise has acquired in nearly a decade and then give up on him 12 months later.

Especially with NBA ready prospects on the board.

So either Ferry messed up and drafted him too early. Or Ferry messed up and traded him too early before his stock could recover.

Found another one:

He's developing into a real game-changer inside the paint with his phenomenal combination of size, length, mobility, and timing...Despite all the question marks, players with Nogueira's physical tools and talent are rare and coveted commodities.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz39S4bDjo2
http://www.draftexpress.com

Here's another guarantee that you can feel free to dig up 8 years from now.

Bebe will NOT be anywhere close to the player that those 3 were. Not even for 1 week. Tavares has more basketball skill than Bebe and has been playing for a lot less time.

[Jamaaliver]

Here's another guarantee that you can feel free to dig up 8 years from now.

Bebe will NOT be anywhere close to the player that those 3 were. Not even for 1 week. Tavares has more basketball skill than Bebe and has been playing for a lot less time.

1. Then Ferry messed up by taking him so high and passing on Gorgui Dieng.

2. Predictions List!

I am locking this thread. Please do not bump year old topics.

Respectfully requesting permission to revisit this topic in the future.

As it is in complete compliance with officially stated Forum Rules and fully agreed upon between board participants, do you have any objections?

[ATLHawksfan21]

Here's another guarantee that you can feel free to dig up 8 years from now.

Bebe will NOT be anywhere close to the player that those 3 were. Not even for 1 week. Tavares has more basketball skill than Bebe and has been playing for a lot less time.

1. Then Ferry messed up by taking him so high and passing on Gorgui Dieng.

2. Predictions List!

I am locking this thread. Please do not bump year old topics.

Respectfully requesting permission to revisit this topic in the future.

As it is in complete compliance with officially stated Forum Rules and fully agreed upon between board participants, do you have any objections?

I agree that in hindsight Ferry made a bad pick. Dieng, Plumlee, Adams and Hardaway Jr. all look like very solid prospects. I'm not going to act like I know everything that Ferry knew at the time of the draft though. I'm not sure if the hunt for Paul/Howard had an impact on him drafting two players that he could stash for cap space. I also don't know the reasoning behind Ferry's complete 180 on Bebe in just one season. I'm sure there are reasons why he initially liked him and reasons why he chose to dump him that we will never hear about.

[D21]

I do not know whether Ferry is working like crazy and no deal goes down, or he is on vacation already for a month and this is the roster we will "enjoy" for the next season

I can tell you he's still working, and it's as simple as that : except Payne (who changed our cap room by 300K only in signing for 120% of the rookie scale, and can now be traded starting mid-August), no other player has signed, because there's still a possibility to use the maximum of cap room we can use, before we signed Bazemore, Mack, Scott...

If the actual roster was the final for sure and there was no other target, everybody would be signed already.

Wait - I thought that Thabo was signed and the SNT deal with OKC was a done deal. Is this not correct?

Yes, it was supposed to be :
"except Payne (who changed our cap room by 300K only in signing for 120% of the rookie scale, and can now be traded starting mid-August) and Thabo, no other player has signed"
that's why I said later "before we signed Bazemore, Mack, Scott..." who have agreed but not signed.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/EricPincus/status/495464831797837824[/tweet]

It's my understanding Thabo is indeed signed. But Mack, Scott and Bazemore are not yet official...

Right, except that we should have $10,530,216 of room, not 9.4M
If it's 9.4M, it means that Mack is signed (the difference between his Q.O. and his first year is 1.1M), which is not the case, and even Eric Pincus is saying he's not signed yet, so he's certainly making an mistake with the numbers.

[ATL Boy]

Shelvin Mack officially puts pen to paper.

This is appropriate:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB1D9wWxd2w[/youtube]

[Jamaaliver]

^Well played, Adnin.

Looks like Hawks finally signed both Scott and Mack, cutting into all that fat cap space we had.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/EricPincus/status/504088993424609280[/tweet]

Has D Ferry given up on this off-season?

[Hawk Eye]

^Well played, Adnin.

Looks like Hawks finally signed both Scott and Mack, cutting into all that fat cap space we had.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/EricPincus/status/504088993424609280[/tweet]

Has D Ferry given up on this off-season?

I believe he has.

[D21]

The $5.8M in cap room is not right, we have $7M left if we keep Muscala, and $7.4M if we waive him.

[Jamaaliver]

Hawks should go after Turner........versatile player and good player for what they need

Agreed, he thrived in Philly's offense early last season before that team started tanking. That offense is very similar to ours. I also see him as having a greater upside than Bazemore or Thabo.

Evan Turner is like Boris Diaw. In an isolation offense, he's largely useless. Like Boris with Charlotte or Atlanta. But put ET in a motion-heavy, high passing offense like ours and he can thrive. The first few months of last season really reminded me how much he can offer a team.

Indy's offense is one of the worst in the league. With ET as a starter here, I think he'd be invaluable. Easily a 15/5/5 guy.

Turner's overall had a solid season. Still terrible shooting percentages, but solid assists and rebounding numbers.

And as the Celtics have played better as a team and competed for the 8th playoff spot, he's gotten much better. For the month of March he shot over 46% from the field and increased his assists while limiting his turnovers.

In the last week-plus he's avg 12 ppg 7 apg and 6 rpg while shooting 54% from the field. He's been pretty amazing. I wish we had signed him last summer, and hope we are able to acquire him in the future.

Lance Stephenson signs with Charlotte?

3/27

Sent from my VS980 4G using RealGM Forums mobile app

That's a great pull by the Hornets. I think they might have just pulled ahead of us...

This one...I completely whiffed on, though.

[theatlfan]

Hawks should go after Turner........versatile player and good player for what they need

Agreed, he thrived in Philly's offense early last season before that team started tanking. That offense is very similar to ours. I also see him as having a greater upside than Bazemore or Thabo.

Evan Turner is like Boris Diaw. In an isolation offense, he's largely useless. Like Boris with Charlotte or Atlanta. But put ET in a motion-heavy, high passing offense like ours and he can thrive. The first few months of last season really reminded me how much he can offer a team.

Indy's offense is one of the worst in the league. With ET as a starter here, I think he'd be invaluable. Easily a 15/5/5 guy.

Turner's overall had a solid season. Still terrible shooting percentages, but solid assists and rebounding numbers.

And as the Celtics have played better as a team and competed for the 8th playoff spot, he's gotten much better. For the month of March he shot over 46% from the field and increased his assists while limiting his turnovers.

In the last week-plus he's avg 12 ppg 7 apg and 6 rpg while shooting 54% from the field. He's been pretty amazing. I wish we had signed him last summer, and hope we are able to acquire him in the future.

Lance Stephenson signs with Charlotte?

3/27

Sent from my VS980 4G using RealGM Forums mobile app

That's a great pull by the Hornets. I think they might have just pulled ahead of us...

This one...I completely whiffed on, though.

1st off - welcome back. Been awhile since I last saw you around...

I think you have to judge the situation these players were put in too. For instance, Jordan Crawford "improved" his game so much under Stevens that BOS netted a 1st when they dealt him last year. As we've seen that improvement was a mirage as Crawford didn't get an NBA contract this season. I think Turber is in the same role. A lot of his improvement is coming from a large bump in his assist numbers - a similar bump as to what Crawford saw last season. I'm still not high on him and, like Crawford before him, see a guy who'll regress into what he always has been: an average to below player who is ball dominant on O and whose only high level skill is the ability to rebound as a wing. If he's willing to buy into our system and be a deep rotation player then I wouldn't mind having him on the roster but I prefer Bazemore and what he's done for us over what I suspect Turner would have done for us this season.

As for Lance, I thought it was a nice signing too until someone here on tuned me into what a horrific fit he was on CHAR and projected them to be terrible. CHAR has nothing in terms of long range shooters, bigs who clog up the lane, and a ball dominant PG who can get to the rim at will... Where did anyone expect Lance to fit in? That situation was basically doomed from the start. If it wasn't for the fact that I think he'd be a terrible fit chemistry wise, I'd like to take the chance in Stephenson. Unfortunately unless and until he has a Come to Jesus moment, I don't see him fitting in here.

[MaceCase]

Turner is useful in a PG role where his ball dominating and lack of shooting aren't anywhere near the same level of deficiency that they'd be at any of the wing positions. It's helped that Boston doesn't have any true PGs after the Rondo trade so Turner's role fits perfectly amongst their menagerie of combos. On a team with multiple superior play makers though, particularly at the guard positions, it's easy to give signing him a pass as he just doesn't benefit you.

[Jamaaliver]

I think Evan Turner must have heard us talking about him. He dropped a triple-double last night including 12 assists against 1 turnover. Last 10 days he's avg 11 ppg 7 apg and 7 rpg. I like it a lot.

1st off - welcome back. Been awhile since I last saw you around...

Thanks, bud. I've been around. Always lurking. At this point I think we're all just biding time until we play games that actually matter. You make a good point about Turner possibly just being fool's gold producing on a losing team. It's a distinct possibility. I admit it. His time in Indy was a huge disappointment. But offensively...that whole team was a mess last spring. Not just him.

Turner is useful in a PG role where his ball dominating and lack of shooting aren't anywhere near the same level of deficiency that they'd be at any of the wing positions. It's helped that Boston doesn't have any true PGs after the Rondo trade so Turner's role fits perfectly amongst their menagerie of combos. On a team with multiple superior play makers though, particularly at the guard positions, it's easy to give signing him a pass as he just doesn't benefit you.

I'd agree with this 100%. I've pondered for a while whether he could have made a solid 3rd PG & 3rd SF. Perhaps serving as the point forward in a Mike Woodson-style lineup filled with 6'7" players at every position. Could be useful off the bench. But he is ball dominant and a poor shooter. Making his fit here difficult.

[Rip2137]

It makes his fit on a successful team impossible. Like I have said before, this is the NBA, best players in the world. Shelvin Mack can average 20 points a game. But you will have a horrible team if you have to give Shelvin Mack the minutes, usage and plays to he 20 a game. Evan Turner can put up great numbers on a bad team because he is ball dominant. I don't believe he can be slightly useful to a winning team/championship caliber team.