The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime!

[KLEON]

Is it possible to trade Bledsoe for Rudy Gay?

[kennydorglas]

I think Jennings/Thomas would be redundant
But i'm intrigued to see him in a scheme that fully uses his potential.

[bwgood77]

Is it possible to trade Bledsoe for Rudy Gay?

Yes, and you'd think Sacramento would do that in a heartbeat but I don't think it's really worth it for us. He expires this year and we wouldn't want to give him a big deal. Another problem would be that Bledsoe would have to agree to go there. Though I guess he probably would since Cousins is there. If they threw in Stauskas it might be worthwhile.

[DirtyDez]

Thomas & Jennings on the court together would be brutal. Contested bombs and zero D errrwhere.

Just sign the extension Eric.

[JTrain]

Anything we can throw at Toronto to get DeRozan? He plays defense and might be the best direct replacement for Bledsoe.

[DRK]

Found this on the Bucks Board, via Reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2e ... he_pieces/

So the original trade was...

**CLIPPERS**
OUT: Bledsoe, Tank General Butler, 2015 2nd
IN: Redick, Dudley

**SUNS**
OUT: Dudley, 2014 2nd
IN: Bledsoe, Tank General Butler

**BUCKS**
OUT: J.J. Redick
IN: 2014 2nd, 2015 2nd

But then, because LOLBUCKS8THSEED...

**SUNS**
RECEIVE: Smith, Kravtsov

**BUCKS**
RECEIVE: Tank General Butler

Combining these...

**CLIPPERS**
OUT: Bledsoe, Tank General Butler, 2015 2nd
IN: Redick, Dudley

**SUNS**
OUT: Dudley, 2014 2nd
IN: Bledsoe, Smith, Kravtsov

**BUCKS**
OUT: J.J. Redick, Smith, Kravtsov
IN: 2014 2nd, 2015 2nd, Gen. Butler

But then, of course, today happens...

**CLIPPERS**
RECEIVE: Miroslav, Delfino

**BUCKS**
RECEIVE: 2017 1st, Dudley

Which updates last summer's shenanigans to...

**CLIPPERS**
OUT: Bledsoe, Tank General Butler, 2015 2nd, 2017 1st
IN: Redick, Miroslav, Delfino

**SUNS**
OUT: Dudley, 2014 2nd
IN: Bledsoe, Smith, Kravtsov

**BUCKS**
OUT: J.J. Redick, Smith, Kravtsov, Miroslav, Delfino
IN: 2014 2nd, 2015 2nd, Gen. Butler, 2017 1st, Dudley

But if we then note that the 2014 2nd the Suns gave up came to them by way of another trade from the 2013 deadline...

**SUNS**
RECEIVE: 2014 2nd, Haddadi

**RAPTORS**
RECEIVE: Bassy

And if we again update...

**CLIPPERS**
OUT: Bledsoe, Tank General Butler, 2015 2nd, 2017 1st
IN: Redick, Miroslav, Delfino

**SUNS**
OUT: Dudley, Bassy
IN: Bledsoe, Smith, Kravtsov, Haddadi

**BUCKS**
OUT: J.J. Redick, Smith, Kravtsov, Miroslav, Delfino
IN: 2014 2nd, 2015 2nd, Gen. Butler, 2017 1st, Dudley

**RAPTORS**
OUT: Haddadi, 2014 2nd
IN: Bassy

But as it so happens, the Bucks had made their own 2013 deadline trade...

**BUCKS**
RECEIVE: Redick, Smith, Ayon

**MAGIC**
RECEIVE: [You're blowing my mind, Tobias], Lamb, Udrih

Which further updates the trade...

**CLIPPERS**
OUT: Bledsoe, Tank General Butler, 2015 2nd, 2017 1st
IN: Redick, Miroslav, Delfino

**SUNS**
OUT: Dudley, Bassy
IN: Bledsoe, Smith, Kravtsov, Haddadi

**BUCKS**
OUT: Kravtsov, Miroslav, Delfino
IN: Ayon, 2014 2nd, 2015 2nd, Gen. Butler, 2017 1st, Dudley

**RAPTORS**
OUT: Haddadi, 2014 2nd
IN: Bassy

**MAGIC**
OUT: Redick, Smith, Ayon
IN: [You're blowing my mind, Tobias], Lamb, Udrih

But Kravtsov only came to the Bucks by way of...

**BUCKS**
RECEIVE: Middleton, Knight, Kravtsov

**PISTONS**
RECEIVE: Suck Jennings

Which OH NO THE CROSSEYES...

**CLIPPERS**
OUT: Bledsoe, Tank General Butler, 2015 2nd, 2017 1st
IN: Redick, Miroslav, Delfino

**SUNS**
OUT: Dudley, Bassy
IN: Bledsoe, Smith, Kravtsov, Haddadi

**BUCKS**
OUT: Suck Jennings, Miroslav, Delfino
IN: Ayon, Middleton, Knight, 2014 2nd, 2015 2nd, Gen. Butler, 2017 1st, Dudley

**RAPTORS**
OUT: Haddadi, 2014 2nd
IN: Bassy

**MAGIC**
OUT: Redick, Smith, Ayon
IN: [You're blowing my mind, Tobias], Lamb, Udrih

**PISTONS**
OUT: Middleton, Knight, Kravtsov
IN: Suck Jennings

And when we note that the 2014 2nd the Bucks acquired was traded...

**HAWKS**
RECEIVE: Lamar Patterson, 2014 No. 48th pick

**BUCKS**
RECEIVE: 2015 2nd

And you know what we do next...

**CLIPPERS**
OUT: Bledsoe, Tank General Butler, 2015 2nd, 2017 1st
IN: Redick, Miroslav, Delfino

**SUNS**
OUT: Dudley, Bassy
IN: Bledsoe, Smith, Kravtsov, Haddadi

**BUCKS**
OUT: Suck Jennings, Miroslav, Delfino
IN: Ayon, Middleton, Knight, 2015 2nd (LAC), 2015 2nd (ATL), Gen. Butler, 2017 1st, Dudley

**RAPTORS**
OUT: Haddadi, 2014 2nd (Patterson)
IN: Bassy

**MAGIC**
OUT: Redick, Smith, Ayon
IN: [You're blowing my mind, Tobias], Lamb, Udrih

**PISTONS**
OUT: Middleton, Knight, Kravtsov
IN: Suck Jennings

**HAWKS**
OUT: 2015 2nd
IN: 2014 2nd (Patterson)

And at this point we're at 7 teams, 17 players, 4 draft picks. But who remembers...

**BUCKS**
RECEIVE: Udrih, 2011 No. 7

**KINGS**
RECEIVE Salmons, 2011 No. 10

But this became a three-team trade as such:

**BUCKS**
OUT: Salmons, Maggette, 2011 No. 10
IN: S-Jax, Udrih, Livingston, 2011 No. 19

**KINGS**
OUT: Udrih, 2011 No. 7
IN: Salmons, 2011 No. 10

**BOBCATS**
OUT: S-Jax, Livingston, 2011 No. 19
IN: Maggette, 2011 No. 7

We could then integrate that with the 7-teamer. And we could then note that Dudley was only on Phoenix because of a 2008-2009 trade with the now-Hornets/then-Bobcats, where the Suns acquired him, J-Rich and a 2010 2nd, in exchange for Boris, Raja and Sean Singletary, but I'm not a masochist.

[lilfishi22]

That's epic DRK. That would not doubt have taken a long time to track and put together lol

Whenever I get the feeling we're going to lose Bledsoe to a S&T or after a year on the QO, I think back and remember we gave up virtually nothing (well Dudley) for him.

[NotTraxxe]

Honestly, I would give Bledsoe near max. And roll the dice on his knees. He and Dragic nearly got us to the playoffs. Were he there a full season he could have made an all NBA team. These are not Amare's knees. He is an elite defender. And he ain't **** turrible on offense either.

[BurningHeart]

http://www.nba.com/suns/blog/highlight- ... sa-defense

and

[Kerrsed]

The link that you posted is kinda funny.

Dragic SHREDS Team USA's defense.

Dragic had 6 points and was 3-11. 1 assist, zero rebounds or steals, 4 turnovers. He carved up the D on that play that was posted. That was it. The headline doesnt tell the whole story or anything close to it. Zoran actually had the team high with 16 points in the game though.

[BurningHeart]

Well yeah, it's about that specific play.

[phrazbit]

1. Jennings on a PG/SG friendly system could be a much more efficient player, he has the offensive arsenal, but lacks efficiency. But in a "free reign" system, who knows.

2. Defensively, anyone replacing Bledsoe outside of the elite defensive PGs is a downgrade...
In any case, if any trade (Bledsoe out), I rather get a "big" SG/SF who can defend, hence that Taj/Butler trade was pretty good in the trade forum, but it doesnt make sense for Bulls, since then they'll have 2 PGs with questionable knees... assuming Bulls rather get Bledsoe than trade him to a 3rd team. In any case, they'll likely request another big back... Randolph lol.

He really does not have the offensive arsenal. He merely shoots a lot.



Thats the shot chart from his career. His shot chart from last year is no better.

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.ht ... rID=201943

There is no where on the court that he is above average as a scorer and a TON of places where he is dreadful... but cranks up an avalanche of bad shots despite that fact. This is why I dont think its a system problem. This is not a guy who is merely playing outside his strengths and needs to be reigned in, he has no strengths as a shooter, and shooting/scoring is where his supposed value comes from.

He is a league replacement level player who got lucky when the Pistons... a team with a history of paying out the nose for replacement level talent, decided to pursue him when no one else really had an interest.

[nevetsov]

Who do you rate as lockdown defensive PGs in the league right now?

Paul
Rondo
Westbrook
Bledsoe
Bradley
Conley?
Teague?
Rubio?
Beverly?
Chalmers?
Lowry?

There aren't too many options on that table. Which would be the best complements to Goran (outside of Bledsoe who appears the clear #1)?

[Saberestar]

^^Jrue Holliday and Reggie Jackson.
Oladipo would be perfect next to Dragic, but he is untouchable.

[jcsunsfan]

Honestly, I would give Bledsoe near max. And roll the dice on his knees. He and Dragic nearly got us to the playoffs. Were he there a full season he could have made an all NBA team. These are not Amare's knees. He is an elite defender. And he ain't **** turrible on offense either.

I think I would too. If Bledsoe was another team's free agent, I think we would have considered this in order to pry him away. There are the "principles" of negotiating, but then there is also the potential you lose in the end. While signing IT was a great move for the money, I think it has muddied this whole negotiation some.

I think the Suns were willing to go here too, but when he asked for 5/80, well.

[JDLAW]

In other words, the Suns would have to have sufficient cap space to sign Milsap when his contract runs out - cannot rely on Bird exception.

According to cbafaq, Non-Bird free agents require a 120% cap hold when they enter free agency. In this scenario, Milsap would have a cap hold of $11.4 Million on the Suns books in the summer of 2015.

Does Milsap's cap hold allow the Suns to sign him prior to addressing the status of the other 2015 cap holds, Green and the Morri in particular?

No cap holds do not confer any sort of priority in signing a free agent.

[Saberestar]

I would offer him 65/5 and close this negotiation.He Will not take the QO with that offer,with 48/4 he Will take the QO for sure,just my opinion.
He is an All Star talent and terrific defender, 13M per year would be great value.

[spanishninja]

I would offer him 65/5 and close this negotiation.He Will not take the QO with that offer,with 48/4 he Will take the QO for sure,just my opinion.
He is an All Star talent and terrific defender, 13M per year would be great value.

meh, from what we've learned, great value for us means underpaid to his agent.

[NotTraxxe]

For me I would do 5/66 ish. Team option 5th year. Front Loaded as much as humany possible.

I think with Dragic/Bledsoe locked down on similar deals we then focus on the draft. We have our sixth man (IT). We just need a good big to compete.

If Bledsoe played the full year and we had talent equating to what we have drafted before (Amare, Marion, etc). Trade some our young talent for future picks to keep reloading.

We got both Marion and Amara with the 9th pick respectively.

A team of (down the road):

Bledsoe/Dragic/Warren/Amare/Plumlee
IT/Green/Tucker/Morris/Len
Ennis/Morris

That would be great. We are one good big draft pick away from having a great and fun team that can compete.

Let's face it we are not going to get a superstar. The only way you gets prime stars longterm through free agency are if you have Lebron or if you are in NY, Cali, Chicago, and maybe Texas.

The best way to keep a star is to build a reationship afer you DRAFT them: (Dirk, Duncan, etc.) Sometimes you get lucky and a non-star does a career turnaround (Dragic) and you can snag them in trades but that is the exception.

Might as well lock our stars down and not let them go. We are not bring them in.

[spanishninja]

yeah. at this point we will have to budge a little on the stance of not overpaying guys. it's just gonna have to be the case. if the champion spurs are giving Parker around $15mill a year, who are we to say that we're above overpaying EB?