What would you do?

[tdot2656]

As optimistic as I want to be about this team because of the loads of talent we have on paper, seeing them play on the field is a different story. So my question to you, is if you were AA and ownership didn't get involved, what would you do? For me? I would have to rebuild. As torturing as that might be as a fan, the cupboard is bare. Stroman, Sanchez, Norris, Pompey should be in the MLB next year and are all good prospects. Asides from those, our next best prospects are Hoffman, Pentecost, Davis, Reid-Foley. Other names people tend to talk about are Nay, Osuna, Barreto, Tellez, but these are all guys who I personally am on the fence on for becoming regular big league starters. As I said, rebuilding will be tough as a fan, but it's only what is right for this team. Bautista, Edwin, Reyes are getting old, Dickey never had it as a Jay compared to his 2011 and 2012 Mets seasons, Lind is a platoon, Melky and Colby are FA's. The team will have a new look next year for sure. This is how I think it should go.

To Oakland:
Jose Bautista
Andy Laroche

To Toronto:
Dillon Overton
Daniel Robertson

It's a good deal for both teams. Jose is the type of player Billy Beane covets. A player that gets on base a ton, can hit the ball and is a smart player. The Jays get 2 solid prospects to compensate for giving their best player to a contending team.

To Washington:
Edwin Encarnacion
Mike Zagurski
Dawel Lugo

To Toronto:
Lucas Giolito
Jhonatan Solano

Washington gets that extra piece in their lineup to go along with their big time pitching rotation. As well, they get a pitcher in Mike Zagurski who could be a first call up sort of guy for the pen when a reliever goes down and a decent project/prospect in Dawel Lugo. Toronto receives one of the most promising pitching prospects in the league and a backup catcher.

To Seattle:
Jose Reyes

To Toronto:
Austin Wilson
Chris Taylor

Seattle gets to shore up their middle infield with Cano and Reyes. They improve in every aspect of this deal. Though Toronto regresses in this deal (obviously), they get Taylor who can step in right away for Reyes and is a solid player and Austin Wilson is a prospect who can hit, field and is a very athletic prospect.

To Pittsburgh:
R.A. Dickey
Josh Thole
PTBNL

To Toronto:
Jose Tabata

Dickey is a 4/5th starter now and putting him in a pitcher friendly ballpark is worth it to him. Citi Field was pitcher friendly and that is where he had the best years of his career. The Pirates now have the Dickey and Thole pair as well as someone named later for Jose Tabata, someone who is expendable for them.

Let Colby walk and Pompey/Gose can replace them.

What would you do?

[BramptonYute]

It all depends on how much money AA has to play with. I know it seems like he doesnt have much, but if he can convince Rogers to give him some more cash, I dont think blowing it up will be necessary. Theres going to be some solid pitchers on the market, so its time for the Jays to start spending. The 5 year limit on contracts is smart, but you're going to sign top free agents like that. Its free agency, you're going to have to overpay, but it'll be worth it if you win.

Its going to be very hard to get a bat like Bautista or EE. They're players you build around, and both dont seem like they're not going to slow down soon. Keep them, and continue to add good players. Just re-tool in free agency.

[kavan]

Is it too late to tank?? #WrongForum ... What happen I think we bring up the young guys and just let them develop the wild card is out the fun was great while it lasted now we need to look to next year or it will be awful a potentially top 5 pay roll and bunch of guys at the end of their prime on the decline!

[dagger]

We had a three year window when the acquisition of Beuhrle, Dickey and Reyes was made. Now we have one year left, but at the same time the window hasn't let in much air. It's hard to imagine our situation being some much harder to bear had we not made those trades at all. We'd have a power hitting catcher with a whole career ahead of him, another Sanchez level pitching prospect ready to be promoted. We likely would have sucked worse than we have the past two seasons, although barely topping 70 wins the past two seasons and headed at best, it would seem, for 81, hardly seems worth the cost paid.

My fear is, short of a death-bed conversion by management to things like longer contracts, bigger payroll, etc, there is no patchwork that can save next season. These veterans, as a group, manage to lose critical time due to injuries. Rasmus seems disenchanted here. The team lacks a front line starter, an everyday second baseman, and now clearly needs both a right handed setup guy (please, not McGowan) and a closer. And if they want to bring Melky back, he's going to have to be paid well, in dollars and years. The young pitchers we're bringing up won't mature overnight.

As most teams know and seem to practise, they are loathe to lose major value through free agency. We already have that risk with Melky, but that was unavoidable. His 2013 season was largely a washout because of his health. However, managing the residual value in Jose (who is declining a bit, if gently) and EE is another matter. They will likely never be worth more than they are right now. Their contracts are a plus as is their talent.

My view is that if we bring this team back, with Izturis healthy, minus Colby, add in Norris perhaps - but not Pompey until midseason or 2016, we're a 70-75 win team. At this stage, we're reduced to scenarios that range from 65-75 wins, and I'd rather go for the low end with nice young assets acquired for EE and Jose, because while they are seen as great guys to build around, we have tried that and failed, and we shouldn't be timid about changing course.

[C Court]

I'd rather go for the low end with nice young assets acquired for EE and Jose, because while they are seen as great guys to build around, we have tried that and failed, and we shouldn't be timid about changing course.

This.

Only happens if AA does not return. As long as Beeston is here, Alex is too.

If Alex is here in 2015, he tries to patch together an 81 win team around Jose and Edwin.

[Michael Bradley]

My answer would have been different if they were in contention right now, but a .500 (and sinking) team in consecutive seasons is enough to abandon ship with this core. Nice try, appreciate the effort, but it was half-assed (in 2014 at least) and failed. If they didn't get McCarthy and Headley for next to nothing when they were leading the freakin East/2nd Wild Card, it pretty much showed the club's intentions. Move on. Whether pound foolish ownership like Rogers would even allow a rebuild, when flirting with .500 is good enough for their pockets, is another story.

I said this in the off-season, but build like the Rays until the team organically starts to win. There is no reason for a team that hasn't touched post season in two decades to care so much about fan perception. Locking up the elite talent is vital (Halladay, Bautista, etc), but the moment the Romero's of the world peak, that's when you move them. Don't hold on to them to sell to the fans. They'll show up when the team wins regardless of who is on the field. Build a self-sufficient asset base with limited resources, that way there are no surprises or change of gears when Rogers inevitably meddles.

Easier said than done obviously. But start with trading the stars this off-season, assuming they fetch elite prospects in return, and go from there. There is a ton of pitching depth in this organization. Maybe no #1 starters, but 2's and 3's while they are cheap are fine. The offense is a different story.

[Lateral Quicks]

Blow it up. Try for a quick rebuild around top-shelf calibre youg pitching and well-rounded (defense, offense, some speed) young positional players. In the short term cut back salary 50%+ by trading veterans for youth, and when the young'uns put up a .500 season increase the budget to plug holes and start a dynasty

Re: Bautista and Encarnacion, I wouldn't both trading them if they don't net at least two top-shelf prospects ready to contribute in the MLB in the near future. They're both elite offensive players on sweetheart deals; anything less of a return would be highway robbery. We're looking at a quick (2-3) rebuild here, so guys in rookie ball and low A ball hold less interest for me. Our young pitching staff could be really good in 2-3 years, and I'd try to time the position guys accordingly.

[Randle McMurphy]

Not trade 2 cheap years of a top 10 player in baseball for two lottery tickets in single A.

[dagger]

Not trade 2 cheap years of a top 10 player in baseball for two lottery tickets in single A.

Top? Not any more, and if baseball values them as top 10, then there will be more than single A prospects.

[C Court]

My two favorite Jays are Jose and Edwin. They are both great ballplayers on reasonable deals.

That said, if the Jays can acquire a package with elite prospects (AAA) in return - then sign me up.

[BigLeagueChew]

So many questions left to be answered for me first.

-Any other hitting coaches out there to try?
-How many more players can we DFA or callup from the minors until one of them works out?
-Are you really trying to compete after trading for Danny Valencia and picking up Reimold?

-Why all the bs about Santana signing here for 14m then not using any of it?
-Why hasn't AA or Beeston said anything lately?
-Will someone get traded before August 31st?

Until this is all figured out they should keep trying to win, but it won't be easy the way things are going. Right now I'd still like to build around Bautista, Edwin,Cabrera if they want to stay but if we don't have an ace starting pitcher and good players in the middle of the field, wins will be tough.

[Sifu]

I am unfamiliar with many of the prospects the OP listed as part of the potential trades for EE and Bautista, but I would think that elite power hitters on very team friendly contracts are worth well more than what's listed in those trades.

The July trade deadline saw some mediocre/decent players going for insane prices. High enough that it was somewhat understandable that AA did not bite.

EE and Jose are elite. Just because we see them everyday does not change that fact. These guys should go for multiple elite prospects. In fact, why do we need to throw in sweeteners on our end of the deal? It should be that we throw in poison contracts as well.

But maybe I'm just being a homer.

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[Sifu]

Also, we should really beef up our analytics department. Go all in on that. Watching Navarro stealing strikes from our own pitchers is frustrating, and it seems the Jays don't realize how detrimental that is.

Seems like the Orioles have 'winneryness'. A made up word to explain the unexplainable. Or could be that their analytics is valuing things like defence highly, and hence why they seem to be winning more than their fair share of one run games.

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[Michael Bradley]

Not trade 2 cheap years of a top 10 player in baseball for two lottery tickets in single A.

Normally I would agree 100% with that (to this day the Halladay deal still pisses me off for that reason) but in order to keep those two, ownership has to be willing to provide some type of flexibility with payroll where they can retain their important players (Melky) and still improve elsewhere. I don't see that being a possibility at all given how ownership acted at the trade deadline.

[Randle McMurphy]

Not trade 2 cheap years of a top 10 player in baseball for two lottery tickets in single A.

Top? Not any more, and if baseball values them as top 10, then there will be more than single A prospects.

Bautista is still very much one of the game's top hitters, yes. And my post was in reference to the OP's rather ludicrous proposed trade.

[MikeM]

Anyone else feel like if we want to rebuild we should trade Bautista, Reyes, Dickey and Buehrle but keep Edwin?

He could have a good 5 years left in him. You need to keep at least one good vet don't you?

[Sifu]

Bautista is still very much one of the game's top hitters, yes. And my post was in reference to the OP's rather ludicrous proposed trade.

The OP is AA in disguise, gauging consensus of whether those trades are good or not.

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[Randle McMurphy]

Anyone else feel like if we want to rebuild we should trade Bautista, Reyes, Dickey and Buehrle but keep Edwin?

He could have a good 5 years left in him. You need to keep at least one good vet don't you?

By the time such a team would be good enough to do anything (after trading all those players), the chances are that Edwin won't be. If they decide to gut the team (though I don't see AA doing this), there shouldn't be any half measures.

[Graham's Cracker]

Anyone else feel like if we want to rebuild we should trade Bautista, Reyes, Dickey and Buehrle but keep Edwin?

He could have a good 5 years left in him. You need to keep at least one good vet don't you?

there shouldn't be any half measures.

So true!
I can live with either outcome (compete or rebuild). Just pick a damn strategy and stick with it. Don't build a $130 million lineup and then balk at acquiring a capable and experienced MLB starter for peanuts mid-season. Makes no sense.

In the end, I'd probably prefer to reload. Although, if we were truly committed to taking a run at a playoff appearance, I'd be good with that too. Just want to see clear direction.

[Michael Bradley]

Anyone else feel like if we want to rebuild we should trade Bautista, Reyes, Dickey and Buehrle but keep Edwin?

He could have a good 5 years left in him. You need to keep at least one good vet don't you?

I think the Jays can get away with trading Reyes and Dickey/Buehrle, but Bautista/Edwin pretty much have to be kept if the team wants to compete.

At this point, if the team wants to compete over the next two years + develop a top 5 farm system simultaneously, they will have to add free agents. If I were GM, I'd look at two FA's in particular: JJ Hardy and Russell Martin. Hardy would represent a 3 win improvement over our 2B situation (plus he would facilitate Reyes moving to 2B) and factoring defense/pitch framing, Martin is probably a 3-4 win improvement over Navarro. I'm guessing it will take a hell of an overpayment to sign either of those guys, much less both, but that's the way to add wins to this .500 roster to potentially make them a contender.

Another thing to consider is currently two positions require 4 roster spots: DH (Lind) and a rotation spot (Dickey). The Jays have to carry those two plus a platoon mate for Lind and a personal catcher for Dickey, and those four spots currently contribute a 3 WAR for over $20M in combined salary. That's why if the Jays have to save money, then trading Dickey and Lind would be a good place to start. Buehrle over Dickey would be fine, too, but at least Buehrle is a league average inning eater that doesn't require two roster spots.