The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime!

[jredsaz]

I was wrong about Robin Lopez. I was a total hater. I mocked his play, his hair, his demeanor, his "lateral quickness", and frankly his general existence.

Unfortunately, the Robin Lopez of 2014 is the center I would like to see starting with this group of players in the current Suns system.

Im glad I can get this off my chest in an anonymous forum, its the first step, as I can't bring myself to admit to this fact when facing my friends who in the past consistently preached patience when debating Side-Show... er... Robin Lopez.

I think the fact that he plays next to one of the best PF's in the league helps hide his flaws. His "lateral quickness" still isnt there and neither is his vertical jump (10 inches). He still plays with his frustrating crouching type moves, but he seems to get away with it alot more in Portland (it didnt work here or in New Orleans). He was a big goofy bastard, and i believe that he still would be, but being traded a few times makes you a bit more mature as you start to see this game for what it really is, a business.

The 2014 Robin Lopez is very different that the version we had, but i feel he only got that way due to us trading him and the players that currently surround him.

He is absolutely a goofy bastard. But his passion was never lacking. Had we hung on to him I think his development would have reflected what we see today.

On the other hand! Damn right why does he always bring the ball down to his waist!?! I can srill remember my high school basketball coach yelling "keep it high". He never got that.

On the third hand:grin: his rebounding, pick and pop jumper and defense have matured to the point that he has become a top ten center.

Ill try to keep that in mind as I evaluate Alex Len in the coming years.

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[jcsunsfan]

I think we should take a look at Paul Sturgess, who is currently playing in the D-League with the Texas Legends. I think he could reek some havoc in the paint for us this season.

For some reason I feel that this clip provides me an opportunity to come clean about something that has been bothering be for the last year or so.

I was wrong about Robin Lopez. I was a total hater. I mocked his play, his hair, his demeanor, his "lateral quickness", and frankly his general existence.

Unfortunately, the Robin Lopez of 2014 is the center I would like to see starting with this group of players in the current Suns system.

Im glad I can get this off my chest in an anonymous forum, its the first step, as I can't bring myself to admit to this fact when facing my friends who in the past consistently preached patience when debating Side-Show... er... Robin Lopez.

As an old timer Suns fan I have seen this so often with big men. Look at how being patient with Markief paid off. Last year this time he was only considered trade fodder by most. In fact he would have been a give away.

So. Alex Len. Nuff said.

[Split T]

According to cbafaq, Non-Bird free agents require a 120% cap hold when they enter free agency. In this scenario, Milsap would have a cap hold of $11.4 Million on the Suns books in the summer of 2015.

Does Milsap's cap hold allow the Suns to sign him prior to addressing the status of the other 2015 cap holds, Green and the Morri in particular?

No cap holds do not confer any sort of priority in signing a free agent.

So, in this hypothetical circumstance, just want to get it straight, in order to resign Millsap in 2015 the Suns would have to address the status of their "Bird Rights" controlled players (and their corresponding cap holds) prior to resigning Millsap?

I appreciate the tutelage.

My understanding is that millsap signed a 2 year 19 million dollar contract. He'll get paid around 10 million this year and he has early bird rights, meaning his team can exceed the cap up to 175% of his previous year contract, so roughly 17.5 million. We'd have no problem resigning him.

[bwgood77]

He's done great when he's had talent (08 championship) but no way he should be getting paid more than Pops (5x championships, 3x COTY) . Seems like Balmer is out trying to making a splash.

Well, they ranked 19th on offense in '08 and 1st defensively. The ace up Doc's sleeve was Thibs as his defensive co-ordinator.

I really don't see Doc as any more than a glorified motivator. He's always had enough talent on his roster, but never really makes anything out of it.

I always see him simply as a guy who got his ass kicked my KJ.

[JDLAW]

According to cbafaq, Non-Bird free agents require a 120% cap hold when they enter free agency. In this scenario, Milsap would have a cap hold of $11.4 Million on the Suns books in the summer of 2015.

Does Milsap's cap hold allow the Suns to sign him prior to addressing the status of the other 2015 cap holds, Green and the Morri in particular?

No cap holds do not confer any sort of priority in signing a free agent.

So, in this hypothetical circumstance, just want to get it straight, in order to resign Millsap in 2015 the Suns would have to address the status of their "Bird Rights" controlled players (and their corresponding cap holds) prior to resigning Millsap?


I appreciate the tutelage.

Sort of. The Suns will have players that have cap holds that will push the Suns salary beyond the cap. For instance, the Morris twins will have cap holds that will be about $7.5M each. Dragic will have a cap hold that will be more than $10M and Green will have a hold of about $7M. Setting aside Bledsoe, because we do not know whether he will be a salary or a cap hold, there will be more than $30M in cap holds. If those holds along with committed salary exceed the cap, there will not be any way to sign Milsap unless you clear cap space. There is no exception to sign him under if the Suns are over the cap. Think of it as though you were trying to sign him straight from ATL. If he plays the year out with ATL, he earns early Bird rights. If he were to play with the Suns or another team, there are no Bird rights and the team get hits with a cap hold.

My explanation is off the top of my head - I do not know if the Suns would have cap room to sign him or not, but

[Frank Lee]

I just don't have any interest in Millsap at all. He threw up a good season in Atlanta last year with that squad of chuckers that had success in the week ass east. Give me Horford all day long if you're going to pick and choose off the Atlanta roster. I throw Bledsoe and a pick to get Horford on this team.


Who is Paul Sturgess and what league do they allow a 9 foot rim :-0. Kerrsed... Please forward that vid to Coach H

[JDLAW]

No cap holds do not confer any sort of priority in signing a free agent.

So, in this hypothetical circumstance, just want to get it straight, in order to resign Millsap in 2015 the Suns would have to address the status of their "Bird Rights" controlled players (and their corresponding cap holds) prior to resigning Millsap?

I appreciate the tutelage.

My understanding is that millsap signed a 2 year 19 million dollar contract. He'll get paid around 10 million this year and he has early bird rights, meaning his team can exceed the cap up to 175% of his previous year contract, so roughly 17.5 million. We'd have no problem resigning him.

He has early bird rights only if he stays with ATL.

EDIT - This contemplated scenario happened to McDyess several years ago when he signed a 2 year contract and then got traded. There were no early Bird rights - it has to be 2 consecutive years with the same team.

[bwgood77]

I just don't have any interest in Millsap at all. He threw up a good season in Atlanta last year with that squad of chuckers that had success in the week ass east. Give me Horford all day long if you're going to pick and choose off the Atlanta roster. I throw Bledsoe and a pick to get Horford on this team.


Who is Paul Sturgess and what league do they allow a 9 foot rim :-0. Kerrsed... Please forward that vid to Coach H

Yeah, we all would of course. But most of us understand Atlanta isn't trading their best player for a 2nd point guard who wants the max. That should be fairly common sense.

[Sunsdeuce]

He's done great when he's had talent (08 championship) but no way he should be getting paid more than Pops (5x championships, 3x COTY) . Seems like Balmer is out trying to making a splash.

Well, they ranked 19th on offense in '08 and 1st defensively. The ace up Doc's sleeve was Thibs as his defensive co-ordinator.

I really don't see Doc as any more than a glorified motivator. He's always had enough talent on his roster, but never really makes anything out of it.

I always see him simply as a guy who got his ass kicked my KJ.

That's the greatest comment I have ever seen on here.


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[Blackification]

Didnt millsap play for horny in Utah?

I hope barbosa does well in golden state

[RunDogGun]

Didnt millsap play for horny in Utah?

I hope barbosa does well in golden state

It's tough, I wish the best for LB, but I also hope that none of him doing well translates to wins for GS.

[Split T]

So, in this hypothetical circumstance, just want to get it straight, in order to resign Millsap in 2015 the Suns would have to address the status of their "Bird Rights" controlled players (and their corresponding cap holds) prior to resigning Millsap?

I appreciate the tutelage.

My understanding is that millsap signed a 2 year 19 million dollar contract. He'll get paid around 10 million this year and he has early bird rights, meaning his team can exceed the cap up to 175% of his previous year contract, so roughly 17.5 million. We'd have no problem resigning him.

He has early bird rights only if he stays with ATL.

EDIT - This contemplated scenario happened to McDyess several years ago when he signed a 2 year contract and then got traded. There were no early Bird rights - it has to be 2 consecutive years with the same team.

The cbafaq says he only loses his early bird rights if he is waived or changes teams via free agency. It mentions nothing about being traded. It does say that full bird rights are transferred via trades. I'm not an expert so maybe I'm missing something but i don't see anything that says he'd lose his early bird rights if traded. It also says mcdyess lost his because he was waived after he got traded.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

[JDLAW]

Split - T - What you fail to take into account is that you have to play 2 years with the team to earn early bird rights or 3 years with the team to earn full bird rights. If you do that Bird rights get transferred with the player if traded. Bird rights are not conferred by signing a contract. Right now, Milsap signed as a free agent with the Hawks last year. He has only played 1 year with the Hawks and has no Bird rights to transfer if he were to be traded. He has to complete 2 consecutive years with the Hawks to earn early Bird rights.

[Saberestar]

Croatian Bojan Bogdanovic left Fenerbahce/ Ulker for the NBA. Can this be the future of Bogdan also, like most of the Euroleague rising star award winners? “To tell you the truth for me that is only statistics, numbers. I hope I will not ruin that statistic and continue in the same path with the previous rising stars. But the NBA is so far right now”.

http://www.eurohoops.net/2014/08/one-on-one/55563

[Split T]

Split - T - What you fail to take into account is that you have to play 2 years with the team to earn early bird rights or 3 years with the team to earn full bird rights. If you do that Bird rights get transferred with the player if traded. Bird rights are not conferred by signing a contract. Right now, Milsap signed as a free agent with the Hawks last year. He has only played 1 year with the Hawks and has no Bird rights to transfer if he were to be traded. He has to complete 2 consecutive years with the Hawks to earn early Bird rights.

the cbafaq specifically says if a player signs a 3 year contract and is traded before he completes his 3 years, his new team maintains his bird rights as long as he is finishes that third season with the new team. The clock only resets on free agency changes or clearing waivers. Maybe they have different rules for early bird rights, but I still think if we traded for millsap we'd get his early bird rights

"When a player is traded, his new team inherits his Bird rights. For example, if a player signs a three-year contract, plays two and a half seasons with that team, and is traded at the trade deadline in the third season, then his new team has full Bird rights following the third season."

[Kerrsed]

Who is Paul Sturgess and what league do they allow a 9 foot rim :-0. Kerrsed... Please forward that vid to Coach H

The 22 year old 7'8 England Native played college ball at both Florida Tech and Mountain State before being drafted by the Harlem Globetrotters. He currently plays for the Texas Legends in the NBA D-League.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me2wPXuOQmk#t=26[/youtube]

This is a pretty good article about what the trainers for the Legends are doing to try to make him a more mobile athlete at his size.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/perils-pau ... 45991.html

[Jarlaxle0204]

Who is Paul Sturgess and what league do they allow a 9 foot rim :-0. Kerrsed... Please forward that vid to Coach H

The 22 year old 7'8 England Native played college ball at both Florida Tech and Mountain State before being drafted by the Harlem Globetrotters. He currently plays for the Texas Legends in the NBA D-League.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me2wPXuOQmk#t=26[/youtube]

This is a pretty good article about what the trainers for the Legends are doing to try to make him a more mobile athlete at his size.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/perils-pau ... 45991.html

Only averaged 2.5 points? That's disappointing.

[JDLAW]

Split - T - What you fail to take into account is that you have to play 2 years with the team to earn early bird rights or 3 years with the team to earn full bird rights. If you do that Bird rights get transferred with the player if traded. Bird rights are not conferred by signing a contract. Right now, Milsap signed as a free agent with the Hawks last year. He has only played 1 year with the Hawks and has no Bird rights to transfer if he were to be traded. He has to complete 2 consecutive years with the Hawks to earn early Bird rights.

the cbafaq specifically says if a player signs a 3 year contract and is traded before he completes his 3 years, his new team maintains his bird rights as long as he is finishes that third season with the new team. The clock only resets on free agency changes or clearing waivers. Maybe they have different rules for early bird rights, but I still think if we traded for millsap we'd get his early bird rights

"When a player is traded, his new team inherits his Bird rights. For example, if a player signs a three-year contract, plays two and a half seasons with that team, and is traded at the trade deadline in the third season, then his new team has full Bird rights following the third season."

I agree with that - the only problem is that Milsap has no Bird rights at this point. There is nothing to inherit.

[LukasBMW]

If Bledsoe takes the QO and comes in out of shape and with a bad attitude, I'm going to laugh when IT outperforms him and then steals more of his minutes or even takes over his spot.

[LukasBMW]

The Suns are doing the right thing. Hold firm on 4/48 unless Bledsoe actually wants to sit down and negotiate face to face AND convince us he wants to be part of our future. Then maybe we raise the offer a bit. If he convinces us he wants to be here, then he's worth 4/54 or maybe even 5/70 as long as the last year is a team option.

In the meantime, we explore sign and trade options for the MAX and see if anyone bites.