Fake Trade Thread 2014-15

[JDR720]

Tell me you haven't jumped on the Smith train.

I have yet to jump on any trains

Not even Lance?

I don't want to risk him blowing in my ear

[TheKingofSting]

He can blow in my ear anytime.

[BeesWax]

Its not necessarily about throwing more years at Lance. Hell, Indiana threw 5/44 at him. Years do not matter. 9/27 with a TEAM option at the end of that deal is just incredible. He could be a huge headache and still be more productive than Henderson ever thought about being, and hes still only 23. Hell, hes younger than Kemba is. Its an amazing contract. Him and his agent must have a ton of confidence in his skills to agree with us over Indianas deal. Thats for sure.

Edit: I like Josh Smith, alot. But his contract is just insane, and practically ludicrous at this point. I actually find it kind of funny that you would ever be willing to trade for Josh Smith and his contract, but was against Jefferson and what he got paid. Compare the two..

Before last season pretty much nobody would have said Jefferson is better than Smith. Now it is apparently a foregone conclusion that Smith is complete washed up garbage and Al is a franchise cornerstone/all-star/all-nba/superstar because the best basketball of his career led his team to a first round playoff exit via a sweep in the embarrassingly bad Eastern conference. I know you aren't as low on Smith as most but the general perception of him has gotten out of hand after such a short amount of time. If it wasn't for last season I would take Smith over Jefferson without question and even still I would probably still gamble on his potential rather than trying to build a team around Jefferson who has proven time and time again that he is not that good. Nothing Jefferson has done justifies him being a guy you pay a max contract and build around. We are the perfect fit for him because our standards were so low before last season.

Al had a better PER every year the two have been in the league except one. He has also had a higher win shares per 48 all but one year in the league. I would argue that Al has always been better than Smith when you look at advanced statistics. Smith is a better defender but no where near as good a defender as Al has shown to be a offensive player.

[Braggins]

Edit: I like Josh Smith, alot. But his contract is just insane, and practically ludicrous at this point. I actually find it kind of funny that you would ever be willing to trade for Josh Smith and his contract, but was against Jefferson and what he got paid. Compare the two..

Before last season pretty much nobody would have said Jefferson is better than Smith. Now it is apparently a foregone conclusion that Smith is complete washed up garbage and Al is a franchise cornerstone/all-star/all-nba/superstar because the best basketball of his career led his team to a first round playoff exit via a sweep in the embarrassingly bad Eastern conference. I know you aren't as low on Smith as most but the general perception of him has gotten out of hand after such a short amount of time. If it wasn't for last season I would take Smith over Jefferson without question and even still I would probably still gamble on his potential rather than trying to build a team around Jefferson who has proven time and time again that he is not that good. Nothing Jefferson has done justifies him being a guy you pay a max contract and build around. We are the perfect fit for him because our standards were so low before last season.

Al had a better PER every year the two have been in the league except one. He has also had a higher win shares per 48 all but one year in the league. I would argue that Al has always been better than Smith when you look at advanced statistics. Smith is a better defender but no where near as good a defender as Al has shown to be a offensive player.

Isaiah Thomas had a better PER than Tony Parker last year. PER can be useful but not necessarily for saying player A is better than player B because player A had a higher PER. Also, PER is slanted towards rewarding volume scoring more so than anything so it should be expected that Jefferson, who is the superior scorer by a decent margin, is going to have a higher PER. I don't want to seem like I'm getting too down on Al because I think he is a pretty good player but the perception of him has always been that he puts up hollow numbers that don't translate to much due to his play style and what he gives up on defense and because despite what he has done individually he hasn't really had any team success whatsoever. That perception has changed but basically only because he went to a team whose fans expectations are so low that getting swept in the first round is considered a success. I don't mean to belittle Al when I say that I think Josh Smith has been and can be the better player. It isn't that I think Al is bad but rather that I think Josh Smith can be quite good.

[BeesWax]

Isaiah Thomas had a better PER than Tony Parker last year. PER can be useful but not necessarily for saying player A is better than player B because player A had a higher PER. Also, PER is slanted towards rewarding volume scoring more so than anything so it should be expected that Jefferson, who is the superior scorer by a decent margin, is going to have a higher PER. I don't want to seem like I'm getting too down on Al because I think he is a pretty good player but the perception of him has always been that he puts up hollow numbers that don't translate to much due to his play style and what he gives up on defense and because despite what he has done individually he hasn't really had any team success whatsoever. That perception has changed but basically only because he went to a team whose fans expectations are so low that getting swept in the first round is considered a success. I don't mean to belittle Al when I say that I think Josh Smith has been and can be the better player. It isn't that I think Al is bad but rather that I think Josh Smith can be quite good.

That is why I looked at all the stats and even quoted WS per 48. The last two seasons Smith has had a negative offensive win shares for the year. He has only had one good year in this category and that was back in 2009-10, the only year he decided to play more inside. He has long been regarded as a guy who can't shoot but does anyway. People thought he had learned that season what he should do then he reverted back to his old ways the next year. The most impressive thing is Al had earned 10 more win shares in his career than Smith in 4000 less minutes while playing in the western conference. Meaning he contributes more to wins when he is on the court than Smith. Smith is a stat stuffer guy who rarely helps his team win. He is best served to be a third or fourth option but his ego refuses to let him play that way. If, and it is a big if, he would take a back seat to Al, Kemba and Lance and only take inside shots while concentrating on his team defense he could be useful. The problem is do you really pay a 3rd or 4th option 13.5 million? He is grossly overpaid for the contribution he has on the court and that is in every year of his career except 2009-10. So where you think I am looking at one year and putting him down, I am not. I think you are remembering his one good year and beefing him up. He is what he is and that is really a PF version of MKG who does not realize him limitations. If he would play within his game he could be a 7 to 9 million dollar guy who is a help to a team but the way he plays not he is worth about half the contract he has.

[Braggins]

Isaiah Thomas had a better PER than Tony Parker last year. PER can be useful but not necessarily for saying player A is better than player B because player A had a higher PER. Also, PER is slanted towards rewarding volume scoring more so than anything so it should be expected that Jefferson, who is the superior scorer by a decent margin, is going to have a higher PER. I don't want to seem like I'm getting too down on Al because I think he is a pretty good player but the perception of him has always been that he puts up hollow numbers that don't translate to much due to his play style and what he gives up on defense and because despite what he has done individually he hasn't really had any team success whatsoever. That perception has changed but basically only because he went to a team whose fans expectations are so low that getting swept in the first round is considered a success. I don't mean to belittle Al when I say that I think Josh Smith has been and can be the better player. It isn't that I think Al is bad but rather that I think Josh Smith can be quite good.

That is why I looked at all the stats and even quoted WS per 48. The last two seasons Smith has had a negative offensive win shares for the year. He has only had one good year in this category and that was back in 2009-10, the only year he decided to play more inside. He has long been regarded as a guy who can't shoot but does anyway. People thought he had learned that season what he should do then he reverted back to his old ways the next year. The most impressive thing is Al had earned 10 more win shares in his career than Smith in 4000 less minutes while playing in the western conference. Meaning he contributes more to wins when he is on the court than Smith. Smith is a stat stuffer guy who rarely helps his team win. He is best served to be a third or fourth option but his ego refuses to let him play that way. If, and it is a big if, he would take a back seat to Al, Kemba and Lance and only take inside shots while concentrating on his team defense he could be useful. The problem is do you really pay a 3rd or 4th option 13.5 million? He is grossly overpaid for the contribution he has on the court and that is in every year of his career except 2009-10. So where you think I am looking at one year and putting him down, I am not. I think you are remembering his one good year and beefing him up. He is what he is and that is really a PF version of MKG who does not realize him limitations. If he would play within his game he could be a 7 to 9 million dollar guy who is a help to a team but the way he plays not he is worth about half the contract he has.

All the stats? The only stats you've ever cited when talking about Smith are shooting percentages, win shares, and now PER... I don't really understand the win share statistic or how it is calculated so I'm not even going to comment on that. I don't think you really fully understand it either if you think it literally calculates perfectly how much a player contributes to a team winning. Jefferson has always been considered a stat stuffer guy whose numbers don't translate to his team winning and Josh Smith has had more team success than Al. Al's defense is easily worse than Smith's offense (not his offense last season admittedly). Please don't bring up Al's defensive win shares this year to dispute it because that stat is obviously misleading and says that Al is a better defender than MKG... I get the feeling you haven't watched Smith play much. He was a second or third option in Atlanta when the team was healthy. Smith has always been a good and very willing passer. I'm not even really arguing for us to trade for Smith because I think it is too risky but your perception of him is really extreme.

[BeesWax]

All the stats? The only stats you've ever cited when talking about Smith are shooting percentages, win shares, and now PER... I don't really understand the win share statistic or how it is calculated so I'm not even going to comment on that. I don't think you really fully understand it either if you think it literally calculates perfectly how much a player contributes to a team winning. Jefferson has always been considered a stat stuffer guy whose numbers don't translate to his team winning and Josh Smith has had more team success than Al. Al's defense is easily worse than Smith's offense (not his offense last season admittedly). Please don't bring up Al's defensive win shares this year to dispute it because that stat is obviously misleading and says that Al is a better defender than MKG... I get the feeling you haven't watched Smith play much. He was a second or third option in Atlanta when the team was healthy. Smith has always been a good and very willing passer. I'm not even really arguing for us to trade for Smith because I think it is too risky but your perception of him is really extreme.

My view is less extreme than yours. Smith contributes less on his winning teams that Al does on a regular basis. Al has been relied on to carry his teams while Smith has made a living being the third best guy on good teams behind Johnson and Horford (when healthy). The reason he gets positive reviews is because on defense he is flashy. He has very little substance and a lot of flash. I know exactly what win shares means and how they are calculated. I have not said they are the be all end all of stats because there is not one of those. There is no all encompassing stat to do anything in the NBA. I never said I put all the stats here I said I looked at them. Smith is a career underperformed compared to Al in almost every major advanced stat. You haven't put one stat up that shows Smith contains any more value at than Al to a team winning. Al had to carry his team every year without near the help Smith had. Honestly the guy we should all be talking about is the best signing from last season which was Milsap. Atlanta upgraded from Smith to Milsap for 4 million less a year. If you want a PF that can play and help our team thats the guy. Put better people around them than they had in Utah and let them work. If Utah had Kemba, Lance and MKG around those two they would have been a play off team every year and would not have let them go.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html
So you can learn about win shares.

[Liver_Pooty]

Josh Smith is a fine player, but his contract is horrible, and doesn't need to be on this team. End of story. No need in even discussing it in my opinion. Especially if we have to give up assets to get him,

[Braggins]

All the stats? The only stats you've ever cited when talking about Smith are shooting percentages, win shares, and now PER... I don't really understand the win share statistic or how it is calculated so I'm not even going to comment on that. I don't think you really fully understand it either if you think it literally calculates perfectly how much a player contributes to a team winning. Jefferson has always been considered a stat stuffer guy whose numbers don't translate to his team winning and Josh Smith has had more team success than Al. Al's defense is easily worse than Smith's offense (not his offense last season admittedly). Please don't bring up Al's defensive win shares this year to dispute it because that stat is obviously misleading and says that Al is a better defender than MKG... I get the feeling you haven't watched Smith play much. He was a second or third option in Atlanta when the team was healthy. Smith has always been a good and very willing passer. I'm not even really arguing for us to trade for Smith because I think it is too risky but your perception of him is really extreme.

My view is less extreme than yours. Smith contributes less on his winning teams that Al does on a regular basis. Al has been relied on to carry his teams while Smith has made a living being the third best guy on good teams behind Johnson and Horford (when healthy). The reason he gets positive reviews is because on defense he is flashy. He has very little substance and a lot of flash. I know exactly what win shares means and how they are calculated. I have not said they are the be all end all of stats because there is not one of those. There is no all encompassing stat to do anything in the NBA. I never said I put all the stats here I said I looked at them. Smith is a career underperformed compared to Al in almost every major advanced stat. You haven't put one stat up that shows Smith contains any more value at than Al to a team winning. Al had to carry his team every year without near the help Smith had. Honestly the guy we should all be talking about is the best signing from last season which was Milsap. Atlanta upgraded from Smith to Milsap for 4 million less a year. If you want a PF that can play and help our team thats the guy. Put better people around them than they had in Utah and let them work. If Utah had Kemba, Lance and MKG around those two they would have been a play off team every year and would not have let them go.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html
So you can learn about win shares.

My opinion is that Smith has been a good player for the most part and still possibly can be. Your opinion seems to be that Smith is terribly and broken and not even as good as Marvin Williams... Smith was the 3rd option offensively in Atlanta but not necessarily their 3rd best player. Horford was probably their best player but I think overall Smith was more valuable than Johnson towards the end of that cores run. As far as stats that show areas where Smith is more valuable than Al, how about blocks, steals, assists, defensive rating, and defensive win shares. Al is the better and more efficient scorer without a doubt, so obviously PER and any other advanced statistics that deal with scoring as well has his shooting statistics will be higher. There are a lot of statistics that favor Al but they are basically just a bunch of statistics that reflect the same thing, which is that Al is the better scorer. There is a lot I could say about Jefferson's statistic and how much they translate into effectiveness but this is a pointless argument and I don't want to knock one of our best and most beloved players just to try to win a Josh Smith vs. Al Jefferson debate.

[Joest2003]

Anybody else notice something strange about this picture?

[HornetJail]

Anybody else notice something strange about this picture?

Yeah I expected all the Al Jefferson shirts to be gone because BrotherDave bought them all to burn them.

[Joest2003]

HAHA close but no. Theres no Henderson jerseys. That is the first picture they put up on facebook when the jerseys came in, and Hendo being a "co-captain" you would expect them to show his jersey. If you ask me this is a sure sign that he will be traded.

[Eoghan]

HAHA close but no. Theres no Henderson jerseys. That is the first picture they put up on facebook when the jerseys came in, and Hendo being a "co-captain" you would expect them to show his jersey. If you ask me this is a sure sign that he will be traded.

Hendo's shirts are over on the golf polo rack since that's the only sport he tries to improve at.

[Bassman]

HAHA close but no. Theres no Henderson jerseys. That is the first picture they put up on facebook when the jerseys came in, and Hendo being a "co-captain" you would expect them to show his jersey. If you ask me this is a sure sign that he will be traded.

Yep, I wondered the same thing. I was actually looking for Stephenson in that photo, finally saw it near the right edge. Hendo is not a real popular player and I wouldn't expect his jersey to be up front. Still I just don't see any trade out there for him right now. Neal maybe...

[JDR720]

Hendo's jersey is probably further down the line past Lance

[Liver_Pooty]

HAHA close but no. Theres no Henderson jerseys. That is the first picture they put up on facebook when the jerseys came in, and Hendo being a "co-captain" you would expect them to show his jersey. If you ask me this is a sure sign that he will be traded.

Yep, I wondered the same thing. I was actually looking for Stephenson in that photo, finally saw it near the right edge. Hendo is not a real popular player and I wouldn't expect his jersey to be up front. Still I just don't see any trade out there for him right now. Neal maybe...

Bingo.

[Joest2003]

Id be satisfied with hendo as the backup SG even though I see PJ taking over that roll sooner than later. but neal has to go he has 0 bbbiq.

[JDR720]

If we trade any SG it will be Neal. Gerald is a team captain and a solid (well should be) 6th man and PJ is a rookie so the odd man out is Neal but i don't see anything happening

[Liver_Pooty]

Id be satisfied with hendo as the backup SG even though I see PJ taking over that roll sooner than later. but neal has to go he has 0 bbbiq.

Neal actually has a pretty solid basketball IQ. If anyone has a low basketball IQ, or low IQ period its Hairston.

[HornetJail]

Id be satisfied with hendo as the backup SG even though I see PJ taking over that roll sooner than later. but neal has to go he has 0 bbbiq.

Neal actually has a pretty solid basketball IQ. If anyone has a low basketball IQ, or low IQ period its Hairston.

Neal does NOT have a high basketball IQ. If he had solid IQ he'd still be with the Spurs and he would be an impact player in the league, not doing his best Ben Gordon impression.