Ben McLemore: Kings fans still confident he'll be a star?

[robbie84]

What's the deal with Ben Mclemore?
Bad series of events combined with a lack of confidence? Seems like his shooting stroke is just beautiful and he's got a decent ball carrying ability in spurts.
A guy with his size, length and athleticism at the SG has got to be given 2 to 3 seasons to develop an NBA IQ right?

What's his trade value likely to be?
I notice most Celtics fans are giving a resounding 'Hell no' to suggestions of a Mclemore for Rondo trade and I notice a lot of Kings fans are saying they'd rather keep Ray Mcallum over McLemore. Is this really the case?

What's his deal?
Thanks guys.

[kbrow20]

Keys things to see Robbie coming from a unbiased person. I do like both the king and Celtics fans on these boards because they all are very respectful. One thing tho I have notice tho about Celtic fans is that they overvalue Rondo just like if someone offered us McLemore for Dirk we would say hell no. You have a emotional connection to Rondo. The other key thing is yes Ben hasn't developed the way he should have by now but he is still a great prospect. The last key thing is Ben has no value to the Celtics since their SG position is full of young talent and they have no room for him. Just king fans think that Ray Mac fits better with their current roster right now then what McLemore does.

so ideally what would have to happen is

Bucks get McLemore
Kings get Rondo
Celtics get Williams + Terry + Henson

[blind prophet]

Most of us Kings fans were skeptical right away, after only watching the first month of the season, or even on draft day.

It is pretty simple, low basketball IQ.

Poor defensive positioning, poor shooting percentages.

Matched with elite athleticism, good shooting form.

He has all the tools to be a star.

It's a craps toss, he may be out of the league in 2-3 years or he will "get" it.

Small wager to gamble on a potential all star.

I'd say you have only a 10% chance he reaches his potential personally, but that 10% on being a stud is worth a hell of a lot more than let's say a prospect who has a 90% chance of a long term and decent career.

Without long term value returned, or long term salary lost, I see no reason to move him. I consider him an ante while the cards are still being dealt.

[SacKingZZZ]

The better question is whether or not he even has a shot to be that with the Kings. Sometimes opportunity is the key factor. McLemore is on a team trying to win now and that's not exactly the best situation for raw rookies with high upside. He is what he is and he is someone that will need shots and offensive opportunities to make anything of himself. We'll see if them trying to turn him into a defensive stopper/role player will work because if not he might not even have a place on this team at all.

[Kings2013]

The better question is whether or not he even has a shot to be that with the Kings. Sometimes opportunity is the key factor. McLemore is on a team trying to win now and that's not exactly the best situation for raw rookies with high upside. He is what he is and he is someone that will need shots and offensive opportunities to make anything of himself. We'll see if them trying to turn him into a defensive stopper/role player will work because if not he might not even have a place on this team at all.

I don't know if I can personally say a lot of the kids abysmal play on both sides of the ball is to being in an imperfect situation. A lot of players are, and they would manage not being a complete liability. What is the best opportunity for him? I don't know if a lot of folks thought of him as a high on ball option or a top two option.

To the OP, yes I think a lot of Kings fans would rather keep Ray and I can see why the Celtics would be reticent of Ben being the focal point of a trade.

The kid does have the tools, athleticism and natural stroke, and I am not ready to throw out what he did in college. By the same token I realize after what he has shown that the chances of him being an impact player are the minority, so I do not have a strong patience for him to continue to debilitate the team. IMO he needs to incrementally earn his time just as 95% of other NBA players do.

[Wolfay]

A lot of pressure was put on him a bit too early thanks to Marcus Thornton completely checking out, and he buckled from it. It's that simple. He wasn't ready, but unfortunately the Kings had no choice. The addition of Nik Stauskas will hopefully take some of the load off his shoulders.

[SacKingZZZ]

The better question is whether or not he even has a shot to be that with the Kings. Sometimes opportunity is the key factor. McLemore is on a team trying to win now and that's not exactly the best situation for raw rookies with high upside. He is what he is and he is someone that will need shots and offensive opportunities to make anything of himself. We'll see if them trying to turn him into a defensive stopper/role player will work because if not he might not even have a place on this team at all.

I don't know if I can personally say a lot of the kids abysmal play on both sides of the ball is to being in an imperfect situation. A lot of players are, and they would manage not being a complete liability. What is the best opportunity for him? I don't know if a lot of folks thought of him as a high on ball option or a top two option.

To the OP, yes I think a lot of Kings fans would rather keep Ray and I can see why the Celtics would be reticent of Ben being the focal point of a trade.

The kid does have the tools, athleticism and natural stroke, and I am not ready to throw out what he did in college. By the same token I realize after what he has shown that the chances of him being an impact player are the minority, so I do not have a strong patience for him to continue to debilitate the team. IMO he needs to incrementally earn his time just as 95% of other NBA players do.

Abysmal play is in a lot of ways dependent on the view you take on it. When you are trying to win, the stretches of that type of play is borderline unacceptable as a opposed to a situation when your team is out of the game. Most teams that are drafting high in the lotto are more often than not, or they should at least, be focusing on player development rather than the W/L column. When you are already down 20 it's a lot easier to let a young player go out there and experiment, try things out, and in the process learn. Giving someone limited minutes and opportunity because their mistakes will cost you games is more often than not a deterrent to a player reaching their full potential or developing the less complete parts of their game in a more timely manner. Not to even mention the potential lack of a opportunity for a scorer on a team with the shots already accounted for.

The problem with many young players right now coming in and with the teams they are on, and the Kings are one of them, is that the same teams for the most part have filled up the top portion of the draft for a number of years. Those teams are ready to move on and win. Could be a tough road for the players needing time and a legit shot to develop.

The major question that should be asked is whether or not, even at his peak for type of player Ben projects to be, he fits what your team needs. This team obviously is trying to groom him into being a defensive stopper/spot shooter. Is he that? Or is he a volume scorer? Is he someone that is going to develop into that 3 and D role player they are looking for? Or is that potentially beneath his potential as a scorer?

[enderwilson]

I'm giving McLemore the same leverage I gave Tyreke. Clearly not comparable players, but I feel that every player needs the opportunity to find their identity in a system such as the NBA. Tyreke made me so happy after his ROY campaign, it was easy to be enthusiastic about this teams future. We can argue about what happened after that, and I agree that much of Tyreke's failure to grow has to do with the situation he was in, but I also believe that the real onus is on each player to make their mark and show the world the type of player they are. After Tyreke's 3rd season, it was clearly apparent that he was never going to live up to the promise of being a superstar. Despite all his talent, he clearly doesn't have what it takes to catapult him into that truly elite category.

Ben is different. He's not going to be a superstar. He's not going to be elite. But I'm optimistic and believe he can be a star and live up to the potential that others place on him. What he has going, unlike Tyreke, is that Ben has set his bar so low that he has given himself plenty of opportunity to change minds about him in his sophomore year. Even at the end of his rookie season his game started to pick up. I believe the FO saw this also and also observed this improvement as a result of playing with Ray as opposed to Isaiah. Now that the team and style of play that the coach and FO want to see is being established, I think Ben will be more confident in his role and turn a corner.

I'm cautiously optimistic that he improves this year. After his third year, I'll weigh in more about what kind of longer term contract we want to offer him. Assuming he hasn't been moved on in a deal that helps the team.

[slicktime]

BMAC has a lot to learn in this league. I'm not really a kings fan but i always watch my former Jayhawks in the NBA. Most of the things i read on this forum was Bmac was no good and should be traded because he didn't put up prime michael jordan numbers his rookie season. Ben did rush his shots too much and stood in the corner like he had actually been making his 3's all year. With that said i was very sad to see Ben drafted by the Kings because when you get top picks every year and the team still sucks... it's not the players, it's management.

[blind prophet]

BMAC has a lot to learn in this league. I'm not really a kings fan but i always watch my former Jayhawks in the NBA. Most of the things i read on this forum was Bmac was no good and should be traded because he didn't put up prime michael jordan numbers his rookie season. Ben did rush his shots too much and stood in the corner like he had actually been making his 3's all year. With that said i was very sad to see Ben drafted by the Kings because when you get top picks every year and the team still sucks... it's not the players, it's management.

Maybe you should have got the memo we just changed ownership.

[codydaze]

BMAC has a lot to learn in this league. I'm not really a kings fan but i always watch my former Jayhawks in the NBA. Most of the things i read on this forum was Bmac was no good and should be traded because he didn't put up prime michael jordan numbers his rookie season. Ben did rush his shots too much and stood in the corner like he had actually been making his 3's all year. With that said i was very sad to see Ben drafted by the Kings because when you get top picks every year and the team still sucks... it's not the players, it's management.

1. There was brand new management in Sacramento last year. The failures and missteps of the past can't be factored in when looking at the new management.

2. There's no way on Earth you can blame Mclemore's performance on management. He was terrible. Period. End of story. Played horrible in summer league. Played horrible in preseason. Played horrible all season.

If I had to take a guess, I would say nerves were a major part of his struggles. He looked like a scared kid on the floor half the time and his confidence was shot and never was able to get it back. I'm hoping some more time in the league will help him get comfortable and break out of that because I do think he has the tools to be a really good player in the league.

[slicedbread2]

I think he could do well if he can get his confidence going.

Kings management should contact Peja and see if they can get him to work with Ben in helping him out since I think it could do really well for his development or Doug Christie at least. At least with Nik around it could help out a bit where Mac and Nik could be alternated depending on different match ups.

I won't blame team culture at all as the team is under new management that is starting it's second year. Ben has to take things by the reigns and time will tell whether or not he meets expectations.

[ICMTM]

The better question is whether or not he even has a shot to be that with the Kings. Sometimes opportunity is the key factor. McLemore is on a team trying to win now and that's not exactly the best situation for raw rookies with high upside. He is what he is and he is someone that will need shots and offensive opportunities to make anything of himself. We'll see if them trying to turn him into a defensive stopper/role player will work because if not he might not even have a place on this team at all.

The Kings trying to win now?

McLemore has shown improvement from game 1 to game 82. He's physically gifted, but mentally I wouldn't call him low IQ but I would call him gun shy. He's not the only person out of place on defense, but I think defensively is where he's lost the most.

I'm not sure he'll be a star, but he'll be a good NBA player.

[2Mas]

The better question is whether or not he even has a shot to be that with the Kings. Sometimes opportunity is the key factor. McLemore is on a team trying to win now and that's not exactly the best situation for raw rookies with high upside. He is what he is and he is someone that will need shots and offensive opportunities to make anything of himself. We'll see if them trying to turn him into a defensive stopper/role player will work because if not he might not even have a place on this team at all.

The Kings trying to win now?

McLemore has shown improvement from game 1 to game 82. He's physically gifted, but mentally I wouldn't call him low IQ but I would call him gun shy. He's not the only person out of place on defense, but I think defensively is where he's lost the most.

I'm not sure he'll be a star, but he'll be a good NBA player.

Can definitely see him avg'ing 16-17ppg in his prime. Don't think he'll go over 20ppg, but that borderline allstar sneak in I can see him being.

Kinda like Jeff Green for my fellow C fans lurking.

[Kings2013]

The better question is whether or not he even has a shot to be that with the Kings. Sometimes opportunity is the key factor. McLemore is on a team trying to win now and that's not exactly the best situation for raw rookies with high upside. He is what he is and he is someone that will need shots and offensive opportunities to make anything of himself. We'll see if them trying to turn him into a defensive stopper/role player will work because if not he might not even have a place on this team at all.

The Kings trying to win now?

McLemore has shown improvement from game 1 to game 82. He's physically gifted, but mentally I wouldn't call him low IQ but I would call him gun shy. He's not the only person out of place on defense, but I think defensively is where he's lost the most.

I'm not sure he'll be a star, but he'll be a good NBA player.

Ownership/Malone/Napear have talked about how they would prefer the team be in the playoffs come the new arena. IMO once you have cornerstones, like Cousins and Gay, you are on the clock to putting something together without risking what went down in Minnesota. the organization has appeared to me to take a win now philosophy in the talent they have been trying to acquire like Rondo and Smith, veterans that would be here to uplift the team now despite future ramifications. I personally think we are trying to win now, but I guess it is debatable

[ICMTM]

I'm giving McLemore the same leverage I gave Tyreke. Clearly not comparable players, but I feel that every player needs the opportunity to find their identity in a system such as the NBA. Tyreke made me so happy after his ROY campaign, it was easy to be enthusiastic about this teams future. We can argue about what happened after that, and I agree that much of Tyreke's failure to grow has to do with the situation he was in, but I also believe that the real onus is on each player to make their mark and show the world the type of player they are. After Tyreke's 3rd season, it was clearly apparent that he was never going to live up to the promise of being a superstar. Despite all his talent, he clearly doesn't have what it takes to catapult him into that truly elite category.

Ben is different. He's not going to be a superstar. He's not going to be elite. But I'm optimistic and believe he can be a star and live up to the potential that others place on him. What he has going, unlike Tyreke, is that Ben has set his bar so low that he has given himself plenty of opportunity to change minds about him in his sophomore year. Even at the end of his rookie season his game started to pick up. I believe the FO saw this also and also observed this improvement as a result of playing with Ray as opposed to Isaiah. Now that the team and style of play that the coach and FO want to see is being established, I think Ben will be more confident in his role and turn a corner.

I'm cautiously optimistic that he improves this year. After his third year, I'll weigh in more about what kind of longer term contract we want to offer him. Assuming he hasn't been moved on in a deal that helps the team.

Watch more basketball. We can prove what you said to be wrong and false. BMac has had one high scoring game in which nobody played defense (last game of season nobody playing for anything). Role and fit matter, but in Ben's case he's yet to show either. The comparison is just all bad. Evans went back to being an elite player once they played him as a PG. Ben...hasn't even shown flashes of anything elite other than athleticism.

[ICMTM]

The better question is whether or not he even has a shot to be that with the Kings. Sometimes opportunity is the key factor. McLemore is on a team trying to win now and that's not exactly the best situation for raw rookies with high upside. He is what he is and he is someone that will need shots and offensive opportunities to make anything of himself. We'll see if them trying to turn him into a defensive stopper/role player will work because if not he might not even have a place on this team at all.

The Kings trying to win now?

McLemore has shown improvement from game 1 to game 82. He's physically gifted, but mentally I wouldn't call him low IQ but I would call him gun shy. He's not the only person out of place on defense, but I think defensively is where he's lost the most.

I'm not sure he'll be a star, but he'll be a good NBA player.

Ownership/Malone/Napear have talked about how they would prefer the team be in the playoffs come the new arena. IMO once you have cornerstones, like Cousins and Gay, you are on the clock to putting something together without risking what went down in Minnesota. the organization has appeared to me to take a win now philosophy in the talent they have been trying to acquire like Rondo and Smith, veterans that would be here to uplift the team now despite future ramifications. I personally think we are trying to win now, but I guess it is debatable

Look at the roster since the new ownership has been here. Cousins, Thompson are the only two guys left from the Maloof era. That's the epitome of rebuilding!

[enderwilson]

I'm giving McLemore the same leverage I gave Tyreke. Clearly not comparable players, but I feel that every player needs the opportunity to find their identity in a system such as the NBA. Tyreke made me so happy after his ROY campaign, it was easy to be enthusiastic about this teams future. We can argue about what happened after that, and I agree that much of Tyreke's failure to grow has to do with the situation he was in, but I also believe that the real onus is on each player to make their mark and show the world the type of player they are. After Tyreke's 3rd season, it was clearly apparent that he was never going to live up to the promise of being a superstar. Despite all his talent, he clearly doesn't have what it takes to catapult him into that truly elite category.

Ben is different. He's not going to be a superstar. He's not going to be elite. But I'm optimistic and believe he can be a star and live up to the potential that others place on him. What he has going, unlike Tyreke, is that Ben has set his bar so low that he has given himself plenty of opportunity to change minds about him in his sophomore year. Even at the end of his rookie season his game started to pick up. I believe the FO saw this also and also observed this improvement as a result of playing with Ray as opposed to Isaiah. Now that the team and style of play that the coach and FO want to see is being established, I think Ben will be more confident in his role and turn a corner.

I'm cautiously optimistic that he improves this year. After his third year, I'll weigh in more about what kind of longer term contract we want to offer him. Assuming he hasn't been moved on in a deal that helps the team.

Watch more basketball. We can prove what you said to be wrong and false. BMac has had one high scoring game in which nobody played defense (last game of season nobody playing for anything). Role and fit matter, but in Ben's case he's yet to show either. The comparison is just all bad. Evans went back to being an elite player once they played him as a PG. Ben...hasn't even shown flashes of anything elite other than athleticism.

Read my second sentence. I'm using Tyreke as an example of how I intend to treat players with potential. If after three years they fail to live up to the expectations people have for them, its time to change those expectations and move on.

This is how I've treated Tyreke. This is a little OT, but I don't really know (or understand) how you define elite if you're putting Tyreke in that category. IMO, elite players do not see their MPG go down each season after their rookie year. Elite players don't come off the bench. Elite players get nominated to the All Star game year in and out. Elite players know how to flip the switch and dominate a game when they need to, and can seemingly do it at whim. LeBron, Durant, Carmelo are currently the elites of the league. Superstars like Kobe, Wade, Anthony Davis are either on their way down or up in terms of their elite status. Tyreke has yet to sniff what I consider to be the elite category (that top 1-2% of players in the league) and I doubt he ever will.

Ben on the other hand, he may never sniff the success that Tyreke has, but I'm still going to give him two more years to show me one way or another.

[enderwilson]

Oh, and the excuse of role and fit matters, only to those 98% who are not elite. Carmelo has always been elite despite being on some lousy teams. Elite players dominate regardless of their role. That's what categorizes them as elite.

[ICMTM]

The thread is "will Ben McLemore be an All-Star?" It's not I think 98% of the league isn't elite and Tyreke Evans isn't elite. I mean you're making even less sense. It's more the exception than the norm that a ROY doesn't make an all star appearance.

We're all in agreement. Neither player is a superstar. That doesn't need to be discussed.

We don't know who Ben McLemore the player will be. We know Evans as a PG puts up 20/5/5 numbers. We know if you make him a small forward or a jump shooter he sucks. Fit matters as well as having a point. Nobody makes Durant a defensive specialist, Wade a post player, or Davis a PG. Fit matters even with them. They need players around them to do what they do. The last time Melo was relevant was in Denver with a healthy Finals MVP named Chauncey Billups. Because playing with other good players (FIT) matters.

That isn't an excuse. See Durant when Westbrook went down. See the Kings when Weber went down (and don't give me that "they played well without him...they traded him away and weren't ever the same either.") See Pipen when Jordan retired. See LeBron without a healthy Wade. Heck see Wade with a scared LeBron (Dallas).

Fit Matters...see Melo in NY.