The One And Only Offseason Thread 5: Dinnertime!

SSOL · Post #1801 » by **SSOL** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 12:09 pm

It was...against Mexico.

Jarlaxle0204 · Post #1802 » by **Jarlaxle0204** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 1:44 pm

Sunsdeuce wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:
Ryu wrote:Rondo wants a max next summer which is 20 mil per. Thanks but no thanks.

He could be a nice fit on a team like Sacramento but we need a guard who can shoot and score a little bit for double pg system to be effective.

Hey dude, kinda OT, but some dude named Ken is looking for you. Pretty sure he wants to fight you.

What is this, high school?

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Go home and be a family man.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #1803 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 4:58 pm

I haven't posted in about a month, but I've been reading. Just wanted to drop my two cents... ok more like twenty dollars on the Bledsoe situation.

First of all, we're close to contenders with Bledsoe. I really believe the 3-PG approach (with these particular 3 PG's) is a juggernaut. Bledsoe's age and skill set compliments both our older star (Goran) and the player I anticipate will likely be our #1 guy in two years (TJ - I think there's a solid chance he's a 25-30 PPG player in the league). That is to say, he's perfect for us.

But we're held up. We're in this awesome bargaining position, and there are legit concerns about health. But the fact that we've gotten where we are indicates that either we've let things spin out of control, or one of the two parties *really* does not want this marriage to occur. If it's the first, maybe we should've bargained against ourselves, let Bledsoe get $15 mil per and be done with it. Because frankly, he makes the rest of our roster make sense. Without him, we have no good defensive guards, which makes it hard for us to compete either short or long-term. if we're not competing, re-signing Dragic *should* become questionable, because expensive players in the prime belong on contenders. The 2-PG system worked because one of those guys was a defensive juggernaut who can guard both 1 and 2. It won't work nearly as well with IT and Dragic. And Dragic won't work nearly as well without Frye. And the Suns won't win nearly as many games if Dragic isn't killing it. So....

The question becomes what to do. Things seem to have soured. If this wasn't by design of our FO, then they screwed up. Because now, even if we agreed to Eric's demands, we'd know his tenure is a ticking clock. Would we sign him for the higher max again in 4 years? With, presumably, Dragic and the Morrises on the books? As, in succession, Plumlee, then Alex, then TJ become (hopefully highly-coveted) RFA's? Doesn't look good. We probably have to trade him now, if that wasn't the intention all along. I don't think it was the plan. Which makes me a pretty disappointed camper. But then, I voted yes to the signing for 4 years/$63 mil.

So, I'm going to assume we intend to trade him now. But most of the proposals I've seen mentioned don't make sense. Rondo? I'd rather have Bled at $16 per than Rondo at $20+. And I bet sure many teams feel the same way, so isn't Bled a more valuable trade asset? I don't get it. Rondo doesn't fit a long-term plan. Jennings and Millsap? Come on. Jennings would not fit next to IT or Goran, and does not make others better, because he is basically a super-inefficient **** version of IT. Millsap is kind of like a super-Morris: a better-rebounding Kieff who can hit 3's like Mook. I like him as a player, but there's no way he could occupy the same roster as the Morrises. Kieff could back up Frye because they could also share the court, allowing both to play significant minutes: Kieff and Paul can't share the court. If Kieff's backing up Paul, who's Mook backing up? Contending for minutes at the forward spots with PJ, TJ, Paul, and Kieff (and Tolliver)? Come on. You'd have to trade them. And if you think it's hard coming up with trade ideas for Bledsoe, try coming up with trades for the Morrises. There aren't a whole lot of rosters on which they fit. Maybe the Wizards (for... Glen Rice Jr and a pick?). Maybe Indiana, if they wanted to move West for youth with PG out for a year. [Which makes this the perfect point to insert my let's-tank-because-it-really-makes-sense-without-Bledsoe idea: Dragic, Kieff, and Mook for West and two unprotected firsts. And I won't go way into it but I don't think the Morrises are a good fit next to TJ (though I know I'm counting chickens) so why not dip back into the draft and start building around the talent we control - TJ, Alex, Bogdan and Tyler, all of whom are about 20 years old? David could hang out with and bring TJ along. Just saying.] So Millsap just complicates things. And then we have to re-sign him and Dragic, greatly reducing our flexibility, not to mention the strength of our draft picks. Locking us into our current roster, at the worst possible place in the standings for a mostly mature roster - fringe playoffs. I just don't think that team would be strong enough to compete. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there are solutions to these things.

Basically, I don't think it makes sense to trade EB for veteran talent. Vets are expensive, and we can't get the type of talent that will vault us to the top. It reduces flexibility and the value of our picks, while building around Dragic rather than TJ, Tyler, Bogdan and Alex - the wrong way to go, IMO. Our youngs are simply the more talented group. I say build around them. EB would've been able to grow with that group, but we're not going that direction. Which makes it harder to keep Dragic, because now we have to go grab another young talent to replace EB. IMO.

The other group of scenarios we're all familiar with are those sending EB to Sacto, LA or Milwaukee. I think we'd be interested in an unprotected pick and another valuable asset from either Milwaukee or Sacto. With LA it would have to be Randle because of our situation with their draft pick. It doesn't seem like there's any motion on those fronts, and maybe that's because we don't like the idea of getting just a draft pick for Bled (and I don't think we're interested in anything else on either Milwaukee or Sacto's rosters - I'm not, anyway. Makes me wish Sacto had picked up Vonleh, because I'd be all over that (see below)). I also think Indiana would be a fine target because with PG out and Lance gone, they'll be bad, but this doesn't seem to be a great time in the life cycle of their franchise to add a 19 year old rookie, because when PG comes back, they should try to have a contender in place. For them, EB > Top 5 pick, IMO. While for us, [EB] < Top 5 pick. So they could be a target.

SOOOOOO all that is to say, I think we should go more towards the rebuilding route, but we'll have to be creative about it. Specifically, I think we should target teams that want an upgrade at the PG slot. Sure, there are plenty of good PG's in the league, but health notwithstanding, I think EB's a huge upgrade over all but a few.

The basic idea is this: trade Bledsoe to Atlanta, Charlotte, or Minnesota for Draft Pick(s) and/or Player on Rookie Contract and their current starting PG, and flip that PG to Sacto, Milwaukee, or Indiana.

A slight digression about Houston because it's been mentioned but I find the option unappealing (in part because I really don't want EB next to Harden in our conference). People have mentioned Jones, Beverley, and NO pick. Beverley would have to be moved, and Jones would create the same logjam problem with the Morrises as did Millsap (and as has been mentioned, he's a total ass). Well, I'm interested if there's a team willing to give us another first or quality rookie contract for those two, but I don't think there is. I thought about Charlotte possibly wanting an upgrade at the 4, with Jones able to bring a lot of what McBob did. And Beverley>Neal as a back-up, IMO. But I'd want Vonleh from Charlotte. Have I mentioned Noah Vonleh? Yes, I'd like him on this roster.

A digression on why I want Vonleh. With EB, our young talent is TJ, Alex, Ennis, and Bogdan, while we also have IT, the Morrises and Plumlee under control for the next 4, 5 and 6 seasons respectively. But it all revolves around TJ, I think. You have an elite, basically 1-on-1 scorer at the 3 spot. We have shooting and leadership in the backcourt, with an interior defender in Len who should also be an above-average rebounder, and hopefully a versatile offensive player at some point. That leaves the 4 spot. I don't think the Morrises will fit next to TJ. With an elite scorer on the roster, the general tactic is to construct an elite defense around them, to give him a scoring sidekick (maybe Bogdan, but probably not, but it's easier to get this piece than others I think), to make sure you have a viable post offense option, and, usually, to control the tempo. So what do we want out of that 4? Simply, defense, rebounding, and don't hurt the offense - in that order. Stretching the floor would be nice, but it's not critical if we have a guy like TJ. So, Vonleh fits that bill. There aren't many young guys currently in the league who do. The Morrises do not - Kieff is a mid-range ISO scorer, which is what TJ is, only TJ should be better at it. Kieff's physical limitations make it unlikely he'll ever be a rim protector or elite rebounder. So the Morrises duplicate what should be our strength in a few years and don't provide the things we need. The good news is that there might be a few guys coming in next year's draft who fit the bill for us, which is another good reason why we should aim to get a high pick (... personally, I'm not confident we'll get the Lakers pick this year because I think they're going to suuuuuuck, but we'll probably get it the following year due to the reduced protection because they should still suuuuuuck, though I would worry they'll be top 3 that year, because they could make a FA splash the following year with an improving young roster with lotto picks and OMG I almost vomited).

Back to scenarios. These are some I like (though I have little confidence in anything happening... to be frank I'm more than a little worried that we've totally screwed the pooch in this particular situation, but we'll see; maybe we've played our hand perfectly, who knows?) - Atlanta, Charlotte, Minnesota. These are just outlines: we can take on salary to make them work, and in some cases, maybe ask for a couple additional minor assets. I don't think we'd need to send anything else out - as I've explained, I think EB is awesome, though Coro has indicated otherwise... and on the matter of whether other GMs value him that heavily, he's probably right. I guess I'm hoping one of these teams sees the opportunity I see and goes for it.

Atlanta in: EB
Phoenix: Payne, ATL 1st, S/M/I 1st
Sacto/Milwaukee/Indiana: Teague

Charlotte in: EB, Ilyasova
Phoenix: Vonleh, Henderson, MIL 1st
Milwaukee: Walker

Minnesota: EB, Henson
Phoenix: Dieng, MIL 1st
Mil: Rubio

Minnesota: EB, Sanders, Green
Phoenix: Dieng, Martin, Mil 1st
Mil: Rubio

Now, those scenarios not comprehensive, obviously, but that's ideally what I'd like to get out of a Bledsoe deal. A defensive 4 on a rookie deal and a pick (or, in the case of Atlanta, close enough). Dieng might be a stretch, but I think he has the mobility to be a 4 for us between Alex and TJ. If Minny's invested in Bennett, and if they're struggling to get a deal with Rubio, they should take a good long look at EB, who is every bit the defender Rubio is, but will forever be the superior offensive player. Some might want LaVine - I get it, and I like him too, and maybe that's our preference, but I think Dieng might not only be easier to pry away, but a really nice fit.

So, that's it. Sorry for the really epic (unreadable?) post. And thanks to you guys for the summer reading material. Cheers all.

WTFsunsFTW · Post #1804 » by **WTFsunsFTW** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 5:17 pm

Jdiddy701 · Post #1805 » by **Jdiddy701** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 5:21 pm

Nobody said Rondo for 20mil. I can speak for myself but I wanted Rondo for one season and see how it works out. If Bledsoe doesn't want to be here and Boston wants to offer big money trade for Rondo and play it out. If Rondo leaves, oh well.

I just hate these Bledsoe rumors to Houston for scrubs.

First thing first, if Bledsoe wants Phoenix that's the priority because he's worth the price of admission IMO. If he doesn't, ship his ass out.

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nevetsov · Post #1806 » by **nevetsov** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 5:25 pm

Nice post, but what about Archie? Couldn't he be that lead defensive guard? His D is well ahead of his O right now IMO. If he can terrorise PGs with his length and quickness, And provide slashing off the ball on offense, I think he'd fit like a glove next to Goran. Of course, we'd need range from the 3 and 4 spots, but that's not an issue with Green/ Tucker/ Morri/ Tolliver.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #1807 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 5:42 pm

nevetsov wrote:Nice post, but what about Archie? Couldn't he be that lead defensive guard? His D is well ahead of his O right now IMO. If he can terrorise PGs with his length and quickness, And provide slashing off the ball on offense, I think he'd fit like a glove next to Goran. Of course, we'd need range from the 3 and 4 spots, but that's not an issue with Green/ Tucker/ Morri/ Tolliver.

Possibly. I get a little too emotional with my evaluations. Was really high on Archie last year, especially after that last game. But he bombed in SL. Talented enough to be a very good defender, but his head wasn't in it. He also couldn't pass. And despite being the hardest worker on the team in practice, defenses seemed to have a real easy time with him in SL because they knew he had one move - drive to the hole. So, maybe. I'm just a little on the pessimistic side right now. I'm worried he lacks that critical intangible, BBIQ.

Revived · Post #1808 » by **Revived** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 6:55 pm

No trade can be completed between the Suns and Hawks unless their willing to give up Millsap or Horford for Bledsoe.

Calvin Klein · Post #1809 » by **Calvin Klein** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 7:31 pm

This has been a pretty boring offseason.

Trade Deadline 2010 >> 2014 offseason.

Jdiddy701 · Post #1810 » by **Jdiddy701** » Mon Sep 1, 2014 8:38 pm

Marcus Morris looking good..

http://youtu.be/r6dFZf14HHg

Ryu · Post #1811 » by **Ryu** » Tue Sep 2, 2014 12:10 am

LukasBMW wrote:
Ryu wrote:Rondo wants a max next summer which is 20 mil per. Thanks but no thanks.

He could be a nice fit on a team like Sacramento but we need a guard who can shoot and score a little bit for double pg system to be effective.

Hey dude, kinda OT, but some dude named Ken is looking for you. Pretty sure he wants to fight you.

It`s kinda obvious I was a Street Fighter fan back in the day, isn`t it?

Frank Lee · Post #1812 » by **Frank Lee** » Tue Sep 2, 2014 3:14 am

Move Bled for a big

I'll take Sanders first, West second, and josh Smith third... Yup I said it ,,,, Smoove

Am I the only one who thinks he would flourish here in a high tempo offense?

Jdiddy701 · Post #1813 » by **Jdiddy701** » Tue Sep 2, 2014 3:50 am

I love Josh Smith and always thought he's the perfect player in our system but I'm just scared of another Michael Beasley situation. I understand he's the opposite of it but reminds me too much of it for some reason.

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JMac1 · Post #1814 » by **JMac1** » Tue Sep 2, 2014 4:08 am

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/eric-bleds ... 14359.html

Nice read on the Bledsoe situation...... We got him by the bawlz!! :nod:

Post #1815 » by **lilfishi22** » Tue Sep 2, 2014 5:16 am

JMac1 wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/news/eric-bledsoe-countdown-30-days-143814359.html

Nice read on the Bledsoe situation...... We got him by the bawlz!!

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm looking at the alternate min and alternate max salaries and neither includes a 4th year salary. I don't understand why the long term deal doesn't include the 4th year salary.

Fo-Real · Post #1816 » by **Fo-Real** » Tue Sep 2, 2014 6:01 am

Frank Lee wrote:Move Bled for a big

I'll take Sanders first, West second, and josh Smith third... Yup I said it ,,,, Smoove

Am I the only one who thinks he would flourish here in a high tempo offense?

Skill set for the system yes..... but he is such a dumbass and head case case shot selection would have to be fixed.

NaturalBuns · Post #1817 » by **NaturalBuns** » Tue Sep 2, 2014 9:09 am

If we go for a big for Bledsoe I hope it's Monroe and not Smith.

younger.. Possibly hasn't topped his game yet.
Would be nice to get Plumlee into a better role. Bench energy guy.. Plumlee/green/IT coule ignite a run on any givin play

Saberestar · Post #1818 » by **Saberestar** » Tue Sep 2, 2014 11:15 am

During the Mercury playoff broadcast Friday night, a commercial for Suns 2014-15 tickets sales aired with old video and voiceover from one of last season's stars — Bledsoe. He has four weeks remaining until his $3.7 million one-year qualifying offer deadline. Bledsoe, the rare marquee September free agent, can negotiate a multiyear deal before and after that deadline as a restricted free agent.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /14950493/

:roll:

aIvin adams · Post #1819 » by **aIvin adams** » Tue Sep 2, 2014 11:59 am

Saberestar wrote:
During the Mercury playoff broadcast Friday night, a commercial for Suns 2014-15 tickets sales aired with old video and voiceover from one of last season's stars — Bledsoe. He has four weeks remaining until his $3.7 million one-year qualifying offer deadline. Bledsoe, the rare marquee September free agent, can negotiate a multiyear deal before and after that deadline as a restricted free agent.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... /14950493/

huh. didn't realize that, and still don't really understand what that means... not much of a 'deadline'...

I did see the ad that featured an image of Bledsoe (didn't notice the video/VO) and it made me hope the Suns really do plan on bringing him back. It would be insincere to run ads for season tickets featuring Bledsoe if they didn't expect he'd be there.

advertising!? insincere!? :reporter:

carey · Post #1820 » by **carey** » Tue Sep 2, 2014 12:25 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm looking at the alternate min and alternate max salaries and neither includes a 4th year salary. I don't understand why the long term deal doesn't include the 4th year salary.

They are making a point about the money he would make over the next 4 years under each scenario.