Andrew Wiggins vs. Giannis Antetokounmpo

[Im Your Father]

You should point out how many superstars were pick 15ish, and how many were top 1ish.

Lets see.
Gasol, Duncan, Ginobili,Scola ,Parker,Rondo,Redd and more recently Dragic.
Granted the are stars and not superstars but if my memory serves right Kobe was drafted as 13th pick in 1996 ?
George was drafted 10th ?
Unless you do not consider the above mentioned players worth enough then i guess nothing will.
Like i've said, good draft pick doesn't guarantee you nothing as we have seen plenty of top pick busts in the past.

Tim Duncan was the consensus number one pick...

[Hornet Mania]

Using Giannis' draft position as some sort of proof he's more likely to bust is a fallacious argument. I'm not even drinking the superstar kool-aid and can recognize that. If GMs knew he was going to be this good out of the gate he is likely the easy number one pick and certainly top 3. Now last year's draft was god awful, so he wouldn't necessarily go first in a draft with a Irving/Davis/Rose-level prospect, but GMs absolutely dropped the ball on this kid. The fact he could plausibly be a future all-star puts him ahead of essentially everyone in last year's draft save perhaps Oladipo and Noel.

Teams just didn't believe he would be this good. I can't necessarily blame them since he played in an unimpressive foreign league and they most likely had limited info to work with. In hindsight it's easy to see they all blew it, and that's after just one year. Partially that's because the 2013 draft was balls, but it's also partially because Giannis is very good.

[Magic Giannison]

I just think Buck fans are setting themselves up for disappointment. Giannis didn't exactly have some once in a generation rookie season, and is far more likely to become an average role player than the Allstar/superstar the bucks think he will be.

George averaged 7.8 points, 3.7 rebounds, 1.1 assists on 45% shooting in his first season.
Do not take numbers especially of a guy that came into NBA as 18 years old with minimum experience .
Like ive said before, people should watch the Bucks games and not only Giannis highlights. Giannis makes a lot of work without the ball which stats never show.
The way our coach handle Giannis last season also limited his stats by a big margin.
We are hyped for Giannis because he exceeded all expectations so far, he shows big talent and knows how to play the game.Giannis also improves defensively a lot, especially with the FIBA games he is getting now.
Nobody expected Giannis to play in the NBA for 2-3 more years but they were wrong.
We believe that he and Jabari will be our franchise players that will make us top tier team, yes.

George blossomed into a superstar player, but hundreds of others who averaged those numbers never amounted to anything more. Buck fans with Giannis are just like Rap fans with JV. They'll both be good players, but neither will be the Allstar or Superstar both fanbases expect them to be.

Yeah but Giannis never had the chance to polish his skills in the College like all the superstars do, he does it in the NBA .
All Giannis needs is more time to show true strengths ,some of them were shown improved in the Summer league and many more during Fiba games.
Just watch him during this season and you will see what im referring to. There is a reason why many consider him to be one of the most improved player in the 2015 season.

[Magic Giannison]

Lets see.
Gasol, Duncan, Ginobili,Scola ,Parker,Rondo,Redd and more recently Dragic.
Granted the are stars and not superstars but if my memory serves right Kobe was drafted as 13th pick in 1996 ?
George was drafted 10th ?
Unless you do not consider the above mentioned players worth enough then i guess nothing will.
Like i've said, good draft pick doesn't guarantee you nothing as we have seen plenty of top pick busts in the past.

Tim Duncan was the consensus number one pick...

Yeah you're right, i got him confused with someone else, i apologize.

[YogurtProducer]

George averaged 7.8 points, 3.7 rebounds, 1.1 assists on 45% shooting in his first season.
Do not take numbers especially of a guy that came into NBA as 18 years old with minimum experience .
Like ive said before, people should watch the Bucks games and not only Giannis highlights. Giannis makes a lot of work without the ball which stats never show.
The way our coach handle Giannis last season also limited his stats by a big margin.
We are hyped for Giannis because he exceeded all expectations so far, he shows big talent and knows how to play the game.Giannis also improves defensively a lot, especially with the FIBA games he is getting now.
Nobody expected Giannis to play in the NBA for 2-3 more years but they were wrong.
We believe that he and Jabari will be our franchise players that will make us top tier team, yes.

George blossomed into a superstar player, but hundreds of others who averaged those numbers never amounted to anything more. Buck fans with Giannis are just like Rap fans with JV. They'll both be good players, but neither will be the Allstar or Superstar both fanbases expect them to be.

Yeah but Giannis never had the chance to polish his skills in the College like all the superstars do, he does it in the NBA .
All Giannis needs is more time to show true strengths ,some of them were shown improved in the Summer league and many more during Fiba games.
Just watch him during this season and you will see what im referring to. There is a reason why many consider him to be one of the most improved player in the 2015 season.

The 2015 season hasn't even started, how can you even consider him the most improved? And for that matter, most 2nd year players experience a leap in production, it's just how the NBA works. Giannis hasn't shown me enough for me to personally believe he is going to be a franchise player. Wiggins has shown me that the ability is there, IMO more than Giannis has. I've watched many of Wiggins college games and Giannis Rookie year games along with some FIBA, but he will likely never meet the expectations you guys are trying to put on him.

[Magic Giannison]

You should point out how many superstars were pick 15ish, and how many were top 1ish.

Lets see.
Gasol, Duncan, Ginobili,Scola ,Parker,Rondo,Redd and more recently Dragic.
Granted the are stars and not superstars but if my memory serves right Kobe was drafted as 13th pick in 1996 ?
George was drafted 10th ?
Unless you do not consider the above mentioned players worth enough then i guess nothing will.
Like i've said, good draft pick doesn't guarantee you nothing as we have seen plenty of top pick busts in the past.

Um, were any of those players you listed drafted 15th?

Also, if Giannis was the can't miss prospect like you say, teams wouldn't skip over him just because he might stay overseas for a couple years. Don't always believe the media reports you head. If Giannis showed superstar qualities like you believe he has, a team would've drafted him before 15th. Giannis can still be a superstar, but history is most definitely not on your side. Especially with today's scouting ability, teams wouldn't of skipped over Giannis (in a weak draft) because he was Playing in Greece, 18 years old, and not expected to play immedientely.

Also should point out I love Giannis as a prospect, but settle your expectations and take off the homer glasses. They are many prospects out there in the NBA today who have much better than Giannis

Most of these are drafter from low 20's to even 57th which is Ginoblili so yeah my point stands.

Every Gm ,reporter from WSJ Simons,draft express and whoever you want to name said the same thing.
Giannis is not ready for the NBA he needs 2 or 3 years of development before he even tries.
Proving them wrong was also one of the main reason why many of these said guys are hyped for Giannis, its not just the Bucks fans.

The scouting failed big time in the 2013 draft as most of them predicted Noel as #1 as bennett took the crown.
What prospect Cavs saw in Bennet and didn't on Noel or Giannis ?
Drafts are most of the time are gamble ( besides few occasions where you get really exceptional people ) and most of the teams didnt want to gamble on a player that was pure unknown. Only Bucks and Raptors were dead set on him but Raptors missed him by a thin margin.

I am not denying that Giannis is not hyped as hell right now, i know it but when i see people trying to downgrade his talent and prospect to the ground and then throwing questions like " i dont understand Giannis hype" when it explained numerous of times then it bothers me in a sense.

Lets be serious here , if Giannis got huge hype then Wiggings being called the next LBJ what makes him ?
I understand and respect people opinions thinking that Wiggings is a better prospect than Giannis but acting like he is Superstar and Giannis is a bust its just silly.

[Magic Giannison]

George blossomed into a superstar player, but hundreds of others who averaged those numbers never amounted to anything more. Buck fans with Giannis are just like Rap fans with JV. They'll both be good players, but neither will be the Allstar or Superstar both fanbases expect them to be.

Yeah but Giannis never had the chance to polish his skills in the College like all the superstars do, he does it in the NBA .
All Giannis needs is more time to show true strengths ,some of them were shown improved in the Summer league and many more during Fiba games.
Just watch him during this season and you will see what im referring to. There is a reason why many consider him to be one of the most improved player in the 2015 season.

The 2015 season hasn't even started, how can you even consider him the most improved? And for that matter, most 2nd year players experience a leap in production, it's just how the NBA works. Giannis hasn't shown me enough for me to personally believe he is going to be a franchise player. Wiggins has shown me that the ability is there, IMO more than Giannis has. I've watched many of Wiggins college games and Giannis Rookie year games along with some FIBA, but he will likely never meet the expectations you guys are trying to put on him.

People consider him to "be" one of the most improved players for the 2015 season.
Ok il start like that.
What exactly Wiggins show you that Giannis cannot do or did already, im really curious .
Wiggins wanst even better than him in The Summer League as Giannis was arguably better showing his skillset on different positions.

[YogurtProducer]

Yeah but Giannis never had the chance to polish his skills in the College like all the superstars do, he does it in the NBA .
All Giannis needs is more time to show true strengths ,some of them were shown improved in the Summer league and many more during Fiba games.
Just watch him during this season and you will see what im referring to. There is a reason why many consider him to be one of the most improved player in the 2015 season.

The 2015 season hasn't even started, how can you even consider him the most improved? And for that matter, most 2nd year players experience a leap in production, it's just how the NBA works. Giannis hasn't shown me enough for me to personally believe he is going to be a franchise player. Wiggins has shown me that the ability is there, IMO more than Giannis has. I've watched many of Wiggins college games and Giannis Rookie year games along with some FIBA, but he will likely never meet the expectations you guys are trying to put on him.

People consider him to "be" one of the most improved players for the 2015 season.
Ok il start like that.
What exactly Wiggins show you that Giannis cannot do or did already, im really curious .
Wiggins wanst even better than him in The Summer League as Giannis was arguably better showing his skillset on different positions.

This was Giannis' second SL. Look no further than JV, he dominated SL last year and won MVP, and didn't light the nba up at all. SL is a poor argument. Giannis was said to not be ready for 3 years by reporters and media who have no idea what he actually brought to the table. Much like Bruno this year with the 2 years from being 2 years away comment. The media doesn't do the scouting, they have no idea about playees potential or where they are right now. It's why they're the Media and not a scout

[Magic Giannison]

The 2015 season hasn't even started, how can you even consider him the most improved? And for that matter, most 2nd year players experience a leap in production, it's just how the NBA works. Giannis hasn't shown me enough for me to personally believe he is going to be a franchise player. Wiggins has shown me that the ability is there, IMO more than Giannis has. I've watched many of Wiggins college games and Giannis Rookie year games along with some FIBA, but he will likely never meet the expectations you guys are trying to put on him.

People consider him to "be" one of the most improved players for the 2015 season.
Ok il start like that.
What exactly Wiggins show you that Giannis cannot do or did already, im really curious .
Wiggins wanst even better than him in The Summer League as Giannis was arguably better showing his skillset on different positions.

This was Giannis' second SL. Look no further than JV, he dominated SL last year and won MVP, and didn't light the nba up at all. SL is a poor argument. Giannis was said to not be ready for 3 years by reporters and media who have no idea what he actually brought to the table. Much like Bruno this year with the 2 years from being 2 years away comment. The media doesn't do the scouting, they have no idea about playees potential or where they are right now. It's why they're the Media and not a scout

This was Gianni's first Summer League as last year he was playing for FIBA under 20 for Greece.
I agree that Summer league means nothing but i wasnt referring in terms of stats but more in terms of play.
Like running the court in only two dribbles and dunking ( he did that even in FIBA games twice as well.).
Then we have seen his court vision which allowed him to play at PG. That experiment didnt work in SL but obviously showed that Giannis got both the handle and the visions to do it, just needs more games as it.
Jason Kidd is dead serious on Giannis as point and we know who is Jason Kidd.
Then we saw Giannis slashing the whole defense and dunking.He did the same thing ( almost) in the FIBA game again, against much more experienced players .
These show his talent and BB IQ that he got for reading the game and how to react when he see's an opportunity. Giannis biggest problem is his shooting, which can be taught in time.

Its not only the media, the scouting reports were saying exactly the same thing, that Giannis needs more time to develop his upside and potential.He was an unknown otherwise he would be drafted much higher in the darft no doubt about it.
Coming from a Greek second division league and nobody ever watched your game is a big turn off for the Gm's.
The Bucks main gamble was on his athleticism and huge upside, hence we drafted him.

Il quote something.

In April, ESPN's Chad Ford wrote: "Every scout I spoke with said Adetokunbo is not even ready for the D-League, let alone the NBA."

Then in December of the same year he would pick Giannis #1 in the pick
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... 3-Re-Draft

[breakchains]

Giannis over Wiggins with zero hesitation.

[Johnlac1]

First of all no, Bucks wouldnt trade Giannis for Wiggins.
Secondly, it was explained time before on why Giannis went so low in the draft but il remind you.
1. Giannis came out from Greece's second division and he was 18 years old unknown .
2. Giannis said that he wants to play in the NBA straight away which scared most of the teams as they didnt want to get a player they didnt know nothing about and put him on the roster hence they passed.
3. Giannis was projected by the scouting reports to stay at least 2-3 years in Europe to develop before he was NBA ready but he already proved those guys wrong anyway.


So no, the 15th pick means absolutely nothing. Should i point out how many low draft picks became better than the top ones?

Giannis after only few months into his NBA debut was already picked as the # 1 by people that didnt even consider him in the top 20.

You should point out how many superstars were pick 15ish, and how many were top 1ish.

Lets see.
Gasol, Duncan, Ginobili,Scola ,Parker,Rondo,Redd and more recently Dragic.
Granted the are stars and not superstars but if my memory serves right Kobe was drafted as 13th pick in 1996 ?
George was drafted 10th ?
Unless you do not consider the above mentioned players worth enough then i guess nothing will.
Like i've said, good draft pick doesn't guarantee you nothing as we have seen plenty of top pick busts in the past.

Speaking of Dragic, I went back through the years on GM's Phoenix board to see what the "experts" said about him his rookie and soph seasons. Many of the "experts" predicted that Dragic would be less than worthless. I wonder what they're saying now? To claim that if some player isn't going to be good if he isn't a superstar or a top-level player when they're rookies or even after two or three years in the league is ludicrous.

[JonBones]

Imagine if Giannis was in this draft. Top 5 (not in order) Wiggins, Parker, Giannis, Exum and Embiid..and Bruno Caboclo 6th (lol).

But my opinion, Andrew Wiggins is gonna be an elite scorer and defender. I don't think his assists numbers will be that high, but he'll have good rebounding/blocks/steals numbers. Giannis I feel will be the Jack of all trades, master of none kind of player.

AW = 1a/b option
GA = 1b/2 option

[Clyde Frazier]

Speaking of Dragic, I went back through the years on GM's Phoenix board to see what the "experts" said about him his rookie and soph seasons. Many of the "experts" predicted that Dragic would be less than worthless. I wonder what they're saying now? To claim that if some player isn't going to be good if he isn't a superstar or a top-level player when they're rookies or even after two or three years in the league is ludicrous.

That's surprising to be honest. I'm not saying I knew he was going to be a future all NBA player, but most people who watched him break out a bit during the 2010 playoffs could tell he had great potential. I was shocked when PHX traded him as he seemed like the perfect replacement for when nash retired (or left, as it happened).

[The Main Event]

Looks pretty damn promising to me.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEMw-fMWKJI[/youtube]

[Greek]

Lots of people here need to eat crow

Sent from my Nexus 6P using RealGM mobile app

[Gibson22]

I'm still picking Wiggo

[Ron Swanson]

There's some All-Time-Great crow-eating posts in this thread. But at the same time, I don't think that anyone could have predicted that Giannis would become this elite and Wiggins would become this average.

Edit: Oh god, the Anthony Randolph comparisons are still gold.

[Magic Giannison]

There's some All-Time-Great crow-eating posts in this thread. But at the same time, I don't think that anyone could have predicted that Giannis would become this elite and Wiggins would become this average.

Edit: Oh god, the Anthony Randolph comparisons are still gold.

I always cringe at this comparison, i feel like Randolph is used a lot even tho he isnt remotely close to players like Giannis in terms of talent,work ethic and basketball feel.

[Tinseltown]

Well I was right on Wiggins being a bust even though my topics on the subject here were locked but I think only Bucks fans saw Giannis being this good

[Wooderson]

Well I was right on Wiggins being a bust even though my topics on the subject here were locked but I think only Bucks fans saw Giannis being this good

Makes sense, since pretty much only Bucks fans followed the team closely during the 13/14 season. Also, it was pretty clear in 2014 summer league that he was a different player, in part due to growing a couple inches and bulking up. Summer league production is mostly meaningless, but a physical transformation like that is going to translate.

All of the "I don't understand the hype" quotes could have been avoided by actually watching the guy play.