Offseason Thread 6: The Not So Mexican Stand-off Continues

[bwgood77]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TyLawson3/status/508756298805301248[/tweet]

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

This offf season can't be over with can it ??? .... even adding Credlow I don't see us much better than an 8 or 9 seed. I'd put us on the same par as NO, and if they gel, sheesh they can be sneaky good.

Will be interesting to see the NBA/Vegas total win lines when they come out next month. I see us at 39... the West is going to be a three-four team struggle for 7-8-9-10

Make that 3-10. I think SAS and OKC are the only true locks, though GSW or MEM could leapfrog OKC if those squads are healthy. But HOU regressed this offseason, LAC moved laterally, and POR did nothing. You're right, though, that fringe playoff teams DAL, NOH, and DEN should improve. And with us, it's hard to tell what losing Frye and adding Thomas means for W/L. But 9 games worse? I don't buy that.

Bledsoe's situation remains tricky. I just wish people would take all that rage they have for Eric, and refocus it onto Rich Paul.

[Sunsdeuce]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TyLawson3/status/508756298805301248[/tweet]

2 statements in one picture. That's funny. Who plays worse defense Dallas or harden? The only time I want Dallas to win a game and not only did they lose, they proved they are the worst team in football.

[bwgood77]

2 statements in one picture. That's funny. Who plays worse defense Dallas or harden? The only time I want Dallas to win a game and not only did they lose, they proved they are the worst team in football.

Actually their defense looked better than I expected (I read somewhere that they would have the worst D of any team in the last 10 years). Romo won't be that bad anymore. I think they will still be better than quite a few teams. The Redskins looked awful too and who knows about the Giants.

Pumped up for tonight's game?

[bwgood77]

This offf season can't be over with can it ??? .... even adding Credlow I don't see us much better than an 8 or 9 seed. I'd put us on the same par as NO, and if they gel, sheesh they can be sneaky good.

Will be interesting to see the NBA/Vegas total win lines when they come out next month. I see us at 39... the West is going to be a three-four team struggle for 7-8-9-10

Make that 3-10. I think SAS and OKC are the only true locks, though GSW or MEM could leapfrog OKC if those squads are healthy. But HOU regressed this offseason, LAC moved laterally, and POR did nothing. You're right, though, that fringe playoff teams DAL, NOH, and DEN should improve. And with us, it's hard to tell what losing Frye and adding Thomas means for W/L. But 9 games worse? I don't buy that.

Bledsoe's situation remains tricky. I just wish people would take all that rage they have for Eric, and refocus it onto Rich Paul.

I agree with your assessment. It seems many people have MEM ranked too low this year when they were among the best teams in the league last year when Gasol played.

[Sunsdeuce]

2 statements in one picture. That's funny. Who plays worse defense Dallas or harden? The only time I want Dallas to win a game and not only did they lose, they proved they are the worst team in football.

Actually their defense looked better than I expected (I read somewhere that they would have the worst D of any team in the last 10 years). Romo won't be that bad anymore. I think they will still be better than quite a few teams. The Redskins looked awful too and who knows about the Giants.

Pumped up for tonight's game?

Oh hell yea, I'm pumped. Best season of the year.....football!! But I think Dallas defense was made to look good because 49ers offense is below average (kaepernick will never run a prolific offense, he simply can't read defenses (basically one read or run)).

This cards team is stacked. If not for some injuries and personsal screwups (dwash), this could have being he best team the cards have ever put together.


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[Scutt]

This offf season can't be over with can it ??? .... even adding Credlow I don't see us much better than an 8 or 9 seed. I'd put us on the same par as NO, and if they gel, sheesh they can be sneaky good.

Will be interesting to see the NBA/Vegas total win lines when they come out next month. I see us at 39... the West is going to be a three-four team struggle for 7-8-9-10

Make that 3-10. I think SAS and OKC are the only true locks, though GSW or MEM could leapfrog OKC if those squads are healthy. But HOU regressed this offseason, LAC moved laterally, and POR did nothing. You're right, though, that fringe playoff teams DAL, NOH, and DEN should improve. And with us, it's hard to tell what losing Frye and adding Thomas means for W/L. But 9 games worse? I don't buy that.

Bledsoe's situation remains tricky. I just wish people would take all that rage they have for Eric, and refocus it onto Rich Paul.

What makes you think this Suns team wont take a step back? I personally believe that even if they had brought back last years entire roster that we would still have trouble matching last years wins. Lon Babby made a good point on this, saying a new season is like a new school year. You can have the same players, but things are bound to be different. The Suns took the league by surprise last year and over achieved for 48 wins. Dragic, Bledsoe, Green, Markieff, and Plumlee all had career years last year, I'm just not sure if they can all replicate that again.

At the start of the season, many thought the Suns would win around 30 games. I'm sure most of us didn't think we would be as bad as the media had us pegged at around 20, but no one saw 48 wins. Why all of a sudden, after one year, do so many fans think we are just going to rise into contender status? Don't get me wrong, I would love to see that happen, but what is wrong with understanding this team might take a step back? At the end of the day, we still don't have a true franchise player to make us contenders. I agree with Frank Lee, I see this this team fighting for the 8th seed if we are lucky and I could easily see us only winning 39 games.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

This offf season can't be over with can it ??? .... even adding Credlow I don't see us much better than an 8 or 9 seed. I'd put us on the same par as NO, and if they gel, sheesh they can be sneaky good.

Will be interesting to see the NBA/Vegas total win lines when they come out next month. I see us at 39... the West is going to be a three-four team struggle for 7-8-9-10

Make that 3-10. I think SAS and OKC are the only true locks, though GSW or MEM could leapfrog OKC if those squads are healthy. But HOU regressed this offseason, LAC moved laterally, and POR did nothing. You're right, though, that fringe playoff teams DAL, NOH, and DEN should improve. And with us, it's hard to tell what losing Frye and adding Thomas means for W/L. But 9 games worse? I don't buy that.

Bledsoe's situation remains tricky. I just wish people would take all that rage they have for Eric, and refocus it onto Rich Paul.

What makes you think this Suns team wont take a step back? I personally believe that even if they had brought back last years entire roster that we would still have trouble matching last years wins. Lon Babby made a good point on this, saying a new season is like a new school year. You can have the same players, but things are bound to be different. The Suns took the league by surprise last year and over achieved for 48 wins. Dragic, Bledsoe, Green, Markieff, and Plumlee all had career years last year, I'm just not sure if they can all replicate that again.

At the start of the season, many thought the Suns would win around 30 games. I'm sure most of us didn't think we would be as bad as the media had us pegged at around 20, but no one saw 48 wins. Why all of a sudden, after one year, do so many fans think we are just going to rise into contender status? Don't get me wrong, I would love to see that happen, but what is wrong with understanding this team might take a step back? At the end of the day, we still don't have a true franchise player to make us contenders. I agree with Frank Lee, I see this this team fighting for the 8th seed if we are lucky and I could easily see us only winning 39 games.

I read, "Last year was a fluke." You ask, what's wrong with thinking we'll take a step back? But one could just as easily ask, what's wrong with thinking we'll take a step forward? I'm suggesting neither, as I do think the west will likely be tougher this year. But we won nearly 2/3 of our games where both Bled and Goran played. I happen to think IT will terrorize back-up PGs. I also think Warren will be solid right from the get go, and that Alex will be a useful rotation player this year. I think Goran will suffer from the lack of spacing, and Gerald's performance will likely suffer because of his decreased role. I think Markieff will duplicate last year's play: efficient scoring from mid-range, below-average rebounding and interior D. But if the team I just described is healthy, I think it's better than Houston, Portland, and the Clippers. It's probably as good as Golden State. It may be as good or better than Memphis. All IMO. As for Dallas, they have a roster full of guys with injury histories, no defense outside of Chandler, and no PG. Denver has great depth but only mediocre talent, and no Andre Miller (everyone compares them to the team that surprised the league a few seasons ago but they forget Dre's influence). The Hornets have a potentially tremendous front court with Davis, Asik and Anderson - granted, and if they stay healthy, they could even vie for home court advantage.

39 wins would require injuries, a major trade, or *huge* chemistry issues. I think the least happy campers this year will be Gerald and Archie (assuming Bled re-signs). But I look to last year's record with Bledsoe and Dragic on the court as evidence of how good we may be this season. I don't see what about this team makes a -9 win difference, assuming good health.

[Christine-In-AZ]

That's what I really meant by "probably have to win him as a true FA" ...he's (understandably) opting out. But! I think you're rather low on the 14 million per. Unless (and you'd know) there's a CBA $$ restriction, Goran Dragic is going to get 4/68 or even 4/78 offers next summer. 17 to 19+ million per year...just one of the many reasons "we" can not give Bledsoe the numbers he's asking.

I'll eat my hat if Dragic gets over $17Mil a year. Good player, but that's a pretty bad overpay. It would seriously handicap us in building a roster if he's making almost 1/3rd the salary cap. He's not LeBron.

-Parsons and Hayward just signed for 15m.

- http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm -most of these contracts were signed 2 years ago+ ...Goran (if he performs like last year) will be considered a top 15 player next summer. 17 or 18 million would be par especially by next summer.

-The newly signed TV contracts will push the cap up to maybe 68 million by June, and even higher in just a few years.

I hope you're right, but I'll be very surprised if "All-Star Goran Dragic doesn't get offered at least 17m next summer. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Frank Lee]

hey man.... just throwing out my thoughts about what Vegas will put up. 39-40 seems about right, especially if no Broodsoe.... I feasted last yr on the over, I think it was 23-24 ??? The lines won't be out till Oct, we'll see then, and then holler at the 'wise guys'



To me, it seems much of our success will rest upon the 'Bigs' Shoulders' and right now, thats a shaky prop.

[Sunsdeuce]

hey man.... just throwing out my thoughts about what Vegas will put up. 39-40 seems about right, especially if no Broodsoe.... I feasted last yr on the over, I think it was 23-24 ??? The lines won't be out till Oct, we'll see then, and then holler at the 'wise guys'



To me, it seems much of our success will rest upon the 'Bigs' Shoulders' and right now, thats a shaky prop.

I have to agree. Take away markieff and our front court is laughable. I really like Len and I think he has a future but right now he isn't an effective front court player. And plumlee is sorta a bigger faster Lou Amundson (that's not a bad thing). But let's be real, neither plumlee or Len strike fear into any team. No team is even bothering worrying tucker or tolliver. Nor is any team game playing around them.

Opposing team will only have to game plan around dragic, markieff, and Thomas right now and that's about it. Hopefully warren adds something to that too.

40 wins is realistic. And I hate that it's realistic because here we are again with a late lotto pick. Basically spinning our wheels in mud.

The best you can hope for with small ball and in our case, really really small ball, is a .500 record.

I really like some people's optimism and all but it doesn't take away the fact of this team has some major weaknesses that need to be addressed.


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[bwgood77]

But if the team I just described is healthy, I think it's better than Houston, Portland, and the Clippers. It's probably as good as Golden State. It may be as good or better than Memphis. All IMO. As for Dallas, they have a roster full of guys with injury histories, no defense outside of Chandler, and no PG. Denver has great depth but only mediocre talent, and no Andre Miller (everyone compares them to the team that surprised the league a few seasons ago but they forget Dre's influence). The Hornets have a potentially tremendous front court with Davis, Asik and Anderson - granted, and if they stay healthy, they could even vie for home court advantage.

39 wins would require injuries, a major trade, or *huge* chemistry issues. I think the least happy campers this year will be Gerald and Archie (assuming Bled re-signs). But I look to last year's record with Bledsoe and Dragic on the court as evidence of how good we may be this season. I don't see what about this team makes a -9 win difference, assuming good health.

I don't know if I'd say it's better than the Clippers, but the others maybe. Also, I wouldn't discount Dallas. Carlisle is a genius and will put the guys in the right situation to succeed. You say no pg but they have two vets (Felton and Nelson) that will likely compete to start and I bet they play much better than they have recently with the better teammates that will be around them now.

[Christine-In-AZ]

hey man.... just throwing out my thoughts about what Vegas will put up. 39-40 seems about right, especially if no Broodsoe.... I feasted last yr on the over, I think it was 23-24 ??? The lines won't be out till Oct, we'll see then, and then holler at the 'wise guys'



To me, it seems much of our success will rest upon the 'Bigs' Shoulders' and right now, thats a shaky prop.

I'd basically agree with your guess on Vegas. I'll say Vegas puts 'em at 41...and I'd again basically agree with that guess, Bledsoe or no.

[Scutt]

Seriously Phoenix? Its raining point guards...

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... -With-Suns

[Sunsdeuce]

Seriously Phoenix? Its raining point guards...

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... -With-Suns

Here's your sign...............that Bledsoe is as good as gone!


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[BVPN]

Seriously Phoenix? Its raining point guards...

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... -With-Suns

Here's your sign...............that Bledsoe is as good as gone!


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Even without Bledsoe we didn't need another point guard...and we might be involved with another guard in Zoran? This makes no sense.

[Sunsdeuce]

Seriously Phoenix? Its raining point guards...

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... -With-Suns

Here's your sign...............that Bledsoe is as good as gone!


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Even without Bledsoe we didn't need another point guard...and we might be involved with another guard in Zoran? This makes no sense.

You know what really makes no sense is that we are about 30 days away from suns camp and the "main" roster isn't set. Maybe that is more classified as upsetting. Damn you Bledsoe.


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[Nando88]

I know EXACTLY what McD is doing. All these PGs will come together and form voltron.


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[Sunsdeuce]

I know EXACTLY what McD is doing. All these PGs will come together and form voltron.


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[Scutt]

I read, "Last year was a fluke." You ask, what's wrong with thinking we'll take a step back? But one could just as easily ask, what's wrong with thinking we'll take a step forward? I'm suggesting neither, as I do think the west will likely be tougher this year. But we won nearly 2/3 of our games where both Bled and Goran played. I happen to think IT will terrorize back-up PGs. I also think Warren will be solid right from the get go, and that Alex will be a useful rotation player this year. I think Goran will suffer from the lack of spacing, and Gerald's performance will likely suffer because of his decreased role. I think Markieff will duplicate last year's play: efficient scoring from mid-range, below-average rebounding and interior D. But if the team I just described is healthy, I think it's better than Houston, Portland, and the Clippers. It's probably as good as Golden State. It may be as good or better than Memphis. All IMO. As for Dallas, they have a roster full of guys with injury histories, no defense outside of Chandler, and no PG. Denver has great depth but only mediocre talent, and no Andre Miller (everyone compares them to the team that surprised the league a few seasons ago but they forget Dre's influence). The Hornets have a potentially tremendous front court with Davis, Asik and Anderson - granted, and if they stay healthy, they could even vie for home court advantage.

39 wins would require injuries, a major trade, or *huge* chemistry issues. I think the least happy campers this year will be Gerald and Archie (assuming Bled re-signs). But I look to last year's record with Bledsoe and Dragic on the court as evidence of how good we may be this season. I don't see what about this team makes a -9 win difference, assuming good health.

This is nothing wrong with thinking the Suns may take a step forward, I was just pointing out they could just as easily step back and we, as Suns fans, should accept that possibility. Although I personally think its more likely that the Suns regress than improve. You say you are suggesting neither, but you then list how you think players will step up next year and the Suns could be better than Golden State and the Clipps, so you are indeed suggesting or expecting improvement.

While I agree I would love to see Len and Warren contribute this year, I just don't see Hornacek giving them meaningful minutes, same goes for Goodwin. Even if one of the young guys stepped it up, this Suns team is not on the same level as the Clippers, Houston, or even Golden State. Well, maybe Alex Len will go beast mode and become a true inside presence, but I think he is a still a few years away from that.