OT:Hawks Owner Levensen to sell team after 2012 racist email

[hst420]

Serious question: How far does your head go up your ass before this post comes out?

It's not very difficult to suss out, I'm surprised you can't see more of the angles and decipher the media's spin.

I can suss out the fact that you had about 30 posts in 2 years prior to this topic. Think there may be something special here grinding your gears.

Correct, I am very interested in first amendment law. That's another label people are quick to accuse each other of. Everyone is so quick to judgement especially now with the virtual court of social media, branded with the scarlet letter 'r'. And then your life is over as you know it and you have to sell your team because you were taken advantage of, illegally recorded and extorted or blackmailed essentially. But it's all good America! Because you got another old white racist, give yourselves a pat on the back. Feel better.

...Oh wait there's more old white racist owners? Oh no..

[Clementine9]

Well obviously poverty and underprivileged schools plays a large part in the cycle of poverty, crime and deviant behavior. However, there are a lot of opportunities afforded to minorities especially black and hispanic who excel in school and work and are taken above similiar and sometimes more qualified caucasians or less sympathetic minority groups (i.e. affirmative action). Yes blacks in america and native americans are targeted and legislation has passed which discriminates the underprivileged, primary those two minorities.

However, the biggest elephant in the room is the African American culture. Which has become distorted from the values and ideals of civil rights, freedoms, peaceful disobedience, forgiveness and understanding beset by Martin Luther King, into a gangster or thug mentality wherein some young blacks get sucked into. One where there is a lot of hesitation in reporting violent crime for fear of being labelled a 'snitch' and face possible repercussions as a result isn't helping things. And the resentment and anger towards whites from the horrors of slavery and segregation still very fresh in the minds and hearts of some African Americans. Whether that's right or wrong, nevertheless still exists. The media does nothing but stir the pot, MSNBC has Reverend Al Sharpton who in my opinion is a race baiter and ambulance chaser. Nothing more than a pariah to the black community that knows a thing or two about living in real subjugation and disenfranchisement, also know that a significant part of the problem is the willingness to give into the pitfalls of criminality in the black culture.

I'm not saying there isn't a lot of racism and bigotry in America, although one side sells and the other doesn't. The white guilt of subjugating the blacks has permeated those who have no responsibility for it. So it sells, furthermore the justice system seems very hesitant to charge African Americans with hate crimes towards whites, because of the media and NAACP backlash, not to mention civil rights leaders Reverend Al and Jesse Jackson. Both of which have both been quoted as saying Anti-Semitic remarks, however not in private. Hate crime charges by blacks onto other minorities like jews or caucasians is unreported. Nobody's hands are clean. Knock-out game ring a bell? The media calls it a game, meanwhile in actuality it is a violent assault not to mention likely racially motivated.

The narrative the media likes to perpetuate is one of continued if not increased racism and bigotry becoming exposed. Meanwhile I think it's safe to say America is less racist and discriminatory now than it ever was ten, twenty, thirty, forty and fifty years ago. Not saying it's perfect, there is plenty of room for improvement. Although it'll never be perfect and the sins of the past will probably ensure that unfortunate reality.

You keep walking yourself into a false equivalency, which in itself suggests a layer of racist tendency. If you can't figure out the astronomical difference between race hatred towards blacks and other minorities vs. race hatred towards whites, then you're actually rejecting the idea that the lived experiences of blacks is much different than that of whites. You reject the historical context, you reject the privilege given to whites- not in any blatant policy (though this exists)- but through cultural norms.

If you CAN figure out that there is a huge difference then I think it would be wise for you to stop pushing this idea that there is some sort of equal hypocrisy/treatment/whatever you can come up with. There isn't. White people are persecuted by blacks to no significant extent. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but that it's INSIGNIFICANT when talking about the persecution of the reverse. Racism towards whites is not embedded and woven into the culture.

Racist remarks and treatment towards a privileged group hold no weight precisely because they are privileged, so those actions have little meaning. Racist remarks towards unprivileged group carry tons of weight because they are charged with so much truth about the power differences between the privileged racist and the underprivileged minority on the receiving end of racism.

This bull**** about certain racism "selling" and the justice system fearing repercussions from NAACP and civil rights leaders is precisely that, bull****. Yeah, the justice system is so afraid of repercussions from the black community they decided to disproportionately throw blacks in cells for crimes white people regularly get away with.

If this is just innocent ignorance on your part then I'll withdraw my suggestion that you are, in fact, demonstrating why there is still a race problem. If it's not, I'll suggest some reading.

[Kevin Willis]

Kareem suggests it's not racism. But then I don't know how much weight you can put to Kareem's wording.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/kareem-abdul-jabbar-reacts-levenson-154744960.html

[Ari_Emanuel]

Well obviously poverty and underprivileged schools plays a large part in the cycle of poverty, crime and deviant behavior. However, there are a lot of opportunities afforded to minorities especially black and hispanic who excel in school and work and are taken above similiar and sometimes more qualified caucasians or less sympathetic minority groups (i.e. affirmative action). Yes blacks in america and native americans are targeted and legislation has passed which discriminates the underprivileged, primary those two minorities.

However, the biggest elephant in the room is the African American culture. Which has become distorted from the values and ideals of civil rights, freedoms, peaceful disobedience, forgiveness and understanding beset by Martin Luther King, into a gangster or thug mentality wherein some young blacks get sucked into. One where there is a lot of hesitation in reporting violent crime for fear of being labelled a 'snitch' and face possible repercussions as a result isn't helping things. And the resentment and anger towards whites from the horrors of slavery and segregation still very fresh in the minds and hearts of some African Americans. Whether that's right or wrong, nevertheless still exists. The media does nothing but stir the pot, MSNBC has Reverend Al Sharpton who in my opinion is a race baiter and ambulance chaser. Nothing more than a pariah to the black community that knows a thing or two about living in real subjugation and disenfranchisement, also know that a significant part of the problem is the willingness to give into the pitfalls of criminality in the black culture.

I'm not saying there isn't a lot of racism and bigotry in America, although one side sells and the other doesn't. The white guilt of subjugating the blacks has permeated those who have no responsibility for it. So it sells, furthermore the justice system seems very hesitant to charge African Americans with hate crimes towards whites, because of the media and civil rights leaders Anti-Semitic Reverend Al and Jesse Jackson. Hate crime charges by blacks onto other minorities like jews or caucasians is unreported. Nobody's hands are clean. Knock-out game ring a bell? The media calls it a game, meanwhile in actuality it is a violent assault not to mention likely racially motivated.

Simply to say 11 months out of the year is white history month

Serious question: How far does your head go up your ass before this post comes out?

It's not very difficult to suss out, I'm surprised you can't see more of the angles and decipher the media's spin.

You start off by admitting there is institutional racism in education and justice systems then proceed to spout a bunch of drivel to support what argument exactly? What a bunch of nonsense.

All you're doing is stringing a bunch of anecdotes and unfounded claims together in an incoherent ramble, glossing over very important issues like education, the legal system, socioeconomic theory, the legacy of slavery etc to pin blame on what you view as black culture. What a ridiculous post.

[godkingleonidas]

Coming soon to Phillips Arena ↓

[MEDIC]

You really don't know?

No.

There is some sentiment within and outside of the black community that an educated black man who is more upwardly mobile is disconnected and out of touch with the problems of that community.

Some non blacks point to us and say "see, he/she's successful, racism is overblown and he/she is living proof".

Some blacks point to us and say "He/she was simply lucky/is an uncle tom/house negro/forgot where he came from/etc etc".

Two sides of the same coin. Those simplistic generalizations are false for the most part.

Still don't know what the point is. You have to be a lower social class black person to be offended by the email?

[hankscorpioLA]

It's not very difficult to suss out, I'm surprised you can't see more of the angles and decipher the media's spin.

I can suss out the fact that you had about 30 posts in 2 years prior to this topic. Think there may be something special here grinding your gears.

Correct, I am very interested in first amendment law. That's another label people are quick to accuse each other of. Everyone is so quick to judgement especially now with the virtual court of social media, branded with the scarlet letter 'r'. And then your life is over as you know it and you have to sell your team because you were taken advantage of, illegally recorded and extorted or blackmailed essentially. But it's all good America! Because you got another old white racist, give yourselves a pat on the back. Feel better.

...Oh wait there's more old white racist owners? Oh no..

The first amendment has no bearing on these issues.

The first amendment is a protection against the GOVERNMENT constraining your speech. It has nothing to do with the activities of private entities like the NBA and its franchises.

btw...that is a key word here...franchise.

NBA teams are not independent businesses. They are franchises that operate pursuant to an agreement with the league. That agreement spells out certain obligations and expectations regarding behavior. The issue in both cases is not the racism itself per se, but rather the impact those comments have on the well-being of the league. The issue could be race, sexism, homophobia or simply bad taste.

And that is why your point about the "virtual court of social media" is irrelevant. No one is being charged with a crime. The only court that matters is the court of ticket sales, television viewership and sponsorship agreements. If an owner does something that has the potential to dramatically impact those metrics - as both Sterling and now Levenson's comments most certainly would - then the league is well within its rights to force an owner to sell.

[Totem]

Well obviously poverty and underprivileged schools plays a large part in the cycle of poverty, crime and deviant behavior. However, there are a lot of opportunities afforded to minorities especially black and hispanic who excel in school and work and are taken above similiar and sometimes more qualified caucasians or less sympathetic minority groups (i.e. affirmative action). Yes blacks in america and native americans are targeted and legislation has passed which discriminates the underprivileged, primary those two minorities.

However, the biggest elephant in the room is the African American culture. Which has become distorted from the values and ideals of civil rights, freedoms, peaceful disobedience, forgiveness and understanding beset by Martin Luther King, into a gangster or thug mentality wherein some young blacks get sucked into. One where there is a lot of hesitation in reporting violent crime for fear of being labelled a 'snitch' and face possible repercussions as a result isn't helping things. And the resentment and anger towards whites from the horrors of slavery and segregation still very fresh in the minds and hearts of some African Americans. Whether that's right or wrong, nevertheless still exists. The media does nothing but stir the pot, MSNBC has Reverend Al Sharpton who in my opinion is a race baiter and ambulance chaser. Nothing more than a pariah to the black community that knows a thing or two about living in real subjugation and disenfranchisement, also know that a significant part of the problem is the willingness to give into the pitfalls of criminality in the black culture.

I'm not saying there isn't a lot of racism and bigotry in America, although one side sells and the other doesn't. The white guilt of subjugating the blacks has permeated those who have no responsibility for it. So it sells, furthermore the justice system seems very hesitant to charge African Americans with hate crimes towards whites, because of the media and NAACP backlash, not to mention civil rights leaders Reverend Al and Jesse Jackson. Both of which have both been quoted as saying Anti-Semitic remarks, however not in private. Hate crime charges by blacks onto other minorities like jews or caucasians is unreported. Nobody's hands are clean. Knock-out game ring a bell? The media calls it a game, meanwhile in actuality it is a violent assault not to mention likely racially motivated.

The narrative the media likes to perpetuate is one of continued if not increased racism and bigotry becoming exposed. Meanwhile I think it's safe to say America is less racist and discriminatory now than it ever was ten, twenty, thirty, forty and fifty years ago. Not saying it's perfect, there is plenty of room for improvement. Although it'll never be perfect and the sins of the past will probably ensure that unfortunate reality.

I think you're confusing African-American culture with the effects of poverty. The Thug/Gangster-Mentality you speak of is not exclusive to african-americans but can be commonly found in areas of great poverty and can include ethnic groups such as (but are not limited to) Latin-Americans, Asian-Americans and even Caucasian's of european decent.

What I'm trying to say is, by pointing to a Socio-Economical issue within an ethnic group (which, by the way isn't exclusive to that group) and claiming that it is part of their culture is just a teensy bit racist. I'm only really pointing this out because I can partially agree with your concluding statement where we (as a global community) are becoming less racist.

It's just that, you come at the conclusion the wrong way. I mean at one point you were arguing that 'reverse' racism (which is just racism btw) was prevalent and went unreported. How does this help your point that racism is diminishing in north america. Why is it relevant to your argument.

TL:DR - Organize your ideas better, and stop taking boondocks literally it's meant as a parody .

[Ari_Emanuel]

No.

There is some sentiment within and outside of the black community that an educated black man who is more upwardly mobile is disconnected and out of touch with the problems of that community.

Some non blacks point to us and say "see, he/she's successful, racism is overblown and he/she is living proof".

Some blacks point to us and say "He/she was simply lucky/is an uncle tom/house negro/forgot where he came from/etc etc".

Two sides of the same coin. Those simplistic generalizations are false for the most part.

Still don't know what the point is. You have to be a lower social class black person to be offended by the email?

I guess that was Danchan's point. Not saying I agree with it.

The email is as much about race as it is about economic class. The writer of the email's argument is that Blacks don't have the disposable income require to fill out the attendance and buy enough merchandise.

[godkingleonidas]

It does kind of resemble a KKK hood

[MEDIC]

There is some sentiment within and outside of the black community that an educated black man who is more upwardly mobile is disconnected and out of touch with the problems of that community.

Some non blacks point to us and say "see, he/she's successful, racism is overblown and he/she is living proof".

Some blacks point to us and say "He/she was simply lucky/is an uncle tom/house negro/forgot where he came from/etc etc".

Two sides of the same coin. Those simplistic generalizations are false for the most part.

Still don't know what the point is. You have to be a lower social class black person to be offended by the email?

I guess that was Danchan's point. Not saying I agree with it.

The email is as much about race as it is about economic class. The writer of the email's argument is that Blacks don't have the disposable income require to fill out the attendance and buy enough merchandise.

If that's the case, then it isn't about race. It's solely about social class/ disposable income.

Any black person that is reasonably successful career wise has every right to be offended by Danchan's comment.

If you are working hard to become reasonably successful (middle class+) so that you can provide a good life for your family, that is very commendable. If someone tries to call you a sell out, you tell them to go f themselves. Life is hard enough....you don't need other people trying to pull you back down. I don't care if you are black, white, asian, brown.....whatever.

It's a dog eat dog world. Things ain't easy. All you can do is work hard to achieve your goals & not let negative people get in your way.

[...c.a.p...]

I wonder how many owners looked at the Sterling fiasco and saw $$$. I won't be surprised if there's more owners in the future that come out like this and try to cash out.

It's sad to be honest, almost sad like when people start faking injuries for insurance claims. This is the sorta the same thing it looks like.

[hst420]

Well obviously poverty and underprivileged schools plays a large part in the cycle of poverty, crime and deviant behavior. However, there are a lot of opportunities afforded to minorities especially black and hispanic who excel in school and work and are taken above similiar and sometimes more qualified caucasians or less sympathetic minority groups (i.e. affirmative action). Yes blacks in america and native americans are targeted and legislation has passed which discriminates the underprivileged, primary those two minorities.

However, the biggest elephant in the room is the African American culture. Which has become distorted from the values and ideals of civil rights, freedoms, peaceful disobedience, forgiveness and understanding beset by Martin Luther King, into a gangster or thug mentality wherein some young blacks get sucked into. One where there is a lot of hesitation in reporting violent crime for fear of being labelled a 'snitch' and face possible repercussions as a result isn't helping things. And the resentment and anger towards whites from the horrors of slavery and segregation still very fresh in the minds and hearts of some African Americans. Whether that's right or wrong, nevertheless still exists. The media does nothing but stir the pot, MSNBC has Reverend Al Sharpton who in my opinion is a race baiter and ambulance chaser. Nothing more than a pariah to the black community that knows a thing or two about living in real subjugation and disenfranchisement, also know that a significant part of the problem is the willingness to give into the pitfalls of criminality in the black culture.

I'm not saying there isn't a lot of racism and bigotry in America, although one side sells and the other doesn't. The white guilt of subjugating the blacks has permeated those who have no responsibility for it. So it sells, furthermore the justice system seems very hesitant to charge African Americans with hate crimes towards whites, because of the media and NAACP backlash, not to mention civil rights leaders Reverend Al and Jesse Jackson. Both of which have both been quoted as saying Anti-Semitic remarks, however not in private. Hate crime charges by blacks onto other minorities like jews or caucasians is unreported. Nobody's hands are clean. Knock-out game ring a bell? The media calls it a game, meanwhile in actuality it is a violent assault not to mention likely racially motivated.

The narrative the media likes to perpetuate is one of continued if not increased racism and bigotry becoming exposed. Meanwhile I think it's safe to say America is less racist and discriminatory now than it ever was ten, twenty, thirty, forty and fifty years ago. Not saying it's perfect, there is plenty of room for improvement. Although it'll never be perfect and the sins of the past will probably ensure that unfortunate reality.

You keep walking yourself into a false equivalency, which in itself suggests a layer of racist tendency. If you can't figure out the astronomical difference between race hatred towards blacks and other minorities vs. race hatred towards whites, then you're actually rejecting the idea that the lived experiences of blacks is much different than that of whites. You reject the historical context, you reject the privilege given to whites- not in any blatant policy (though this exists)- but through cultural norms.

If you CAN figure out that there is a huge difference then I think it would be wise for you to stop pushing this idea that there is some sort of equal hypocrisy/treatment/whatever you can come up with. There isn't. White people are persecuted by blacks to no significant extent. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but that it's INSIGNIFICANT when talking about the persecution of the reverse. Racism towards whites is not embedded and woven into the culture.

Racist remarks and treatment towards a privileged group hold no weight precisely because they are privileged, so those actions have little meaning. Racist remarks towards unprivileged group carry tons of weight because they are charged with so much truth about the power differences between the privileged racist and the underprivileged minority on the receiving end of racism.

This bull**** about certain racism "selling" and the justice system fearing repercussions from NAACP and civil rights leaders is precisely that, bull****. Yeah, the justice system is so afraid of repercussions from the black community they decided to disproportionately throw blacks in cells for crimes white people regularly get away with.

If this is just innocent ignorance on your part then I'll withdraw my suggestion that you are, in fact, demonstrating why there is still a race problem. If it's not, I'll suggest some reading.

I never rejected any historical context of African American history. I can cite numerous examples of hesitance by the legal system and media to describe black on white crime as racially motivated. Because not all of it is racially motivated, although some of it is and blatant yet under reported. The vast majority of African Americans protesting in Ferguson are law abiding and don't bear a resentment towards whites. Although there are a percentage minority that do and resort to looting and the like. It isn't necessary blacks doing it to whites, it's whites punishing other whites for their honest and open opinions on race. Because it makes those whites feel uncomfortable about their own insecurities and possible prejudices towards certain race or races, I have none. I am not afraid to speak my mind on the subject because I know I can defend my position and anyone who is unwilling to discuss it openly and honestly without resorting to inferring accusations of racism isn't worth my time. Because they're the same people who quash the open and honest dialogue, and instead resort to name calling, because they don't understand the media's power and influence as well as I do. As far as the racial double standard in the media is concerned, it's pretty blatant most often. Some publications are more editorialized than others for sure.

But when you have a dialogue where if you address the problems in the black community, and if your not black, you're deemed a racist. Progress can't be made, it is hindered by a perpetuate of being the victim. Which is exactly what Al Sharpton and Jesse J would like, play the victim and make money not address the more relevant day-to-day issues in the African American community. African Americans have been victims enough, they have their own unique burden to carry, although not unlike those of other minorities. Such as the Jews and the Chinese, although it hasn't stopped them from achieving the American dream in a lot of cases. To work hard, achieve and better yourself isn't a guarantee to the American dream, you have to be fortunate and make opportunities where none existed before.

It simply isn't ridiculous as you would like to believe. For instance, the media ate up the Trayvon Martin case, releasing a much younger picture, MSNBC editing the phone call to make Zimmerman look racist he went out of his way to harass with premeditation. There was a case down in Baton Rouge where a white family stopped for gas in a black neighborhood. The father was told he was in the wrong neighborhood one of three black men and that he wasn't going to get out. He was knocked unconscious, broken orbital the works, his wife was knocked out, his daughter was roughed up. And the three African American men who did it were charged with simple battery and one with second-degree battery issued summons and released on site. Which is crazy and on top of that somehow they didn't face hate crime charges. It wasn't until much criticism and complaints by the city towards the Baton Rouge Police department before they relented and called the FBI to investigate a possible hate crime.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/05/fbi-called-into-hate-crime-targeting-whites/

This article goes on further to state that Eric Holder in 2009 said before a senate subcommittee that white people and ministers would not be protected by proposed hate crime statutes.

http://www.wnd.com/2009/07/102919/

This article talks more about Eric Holder's testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

There's a lot more examples out there. I'm not saying the justice system doesn't punish blacks more harshly than whites, although if your nose is squeaky clean you got nothing to worry about either. Trayvon Martin wasn't no angel, Which doesn't justify being shot by a punk but the media has its part to play. Which is stir, stir, stir, stir.

Do young African Americans get hounded by the cops? Yes, is it fair? No, should it go any further than being inconvenienced? Not if that person doesn't have anything to hide or cop to, which isn't justifying the critical brow beating by the cops, but it is true.

[hst420]

Well obviously poverty and underprivileged schools plays a large part in the cycle of poverty, crime and deviant behavior. However, there are a lot of opportunities afforded to minorities especially black and hispanic who excel in school and work and are taken above similiar and sometimes more qualified caucasians or less sympathetic minority groups (i.e. affirmative action). Yes blacks in america and native americans are targeted and legislation has passed which discriminates the underprivileged, primary those two minorities.

However, the biggest elephant in the room is the African American culture. Which has become distorted from the values and ideals of civil rights, freedoms, peaceful disobedience, forgiveness and understanding beset by Martin Luther King, into a gangster or thug mentality wherein some young blacks get sucked into. One where there is a lot of hesitation in reporting violent crime for fear of being labelled a 'snitch' and face possible repercussions as a result isn't helping things. And the resentment and anger towards whites from the horrors of slavery and segregation still very fresh in the minds and hearts of some African Americans. Whether that's right or wrong, nevertheless still exists. The media does nothing but stir the pot, MSNBC has Reverend Al Sharpton who in my opinion is a race baiter and ambulance chaser. Nothing more than a pariah to the black community that knows a thing or two about living in real subjugation and disenfranchisement, also know that a significant part of the problem is the willingness to give into the pitfalls of criminality in the black culture.

I'm not saying there isn't a lot of racism and bigotry in America, although one side sells and the other doesn't. The white guilt of subjugating the blacks has permeated those who have no responsibility for it. So it sells, furthermore the justice system seems very hesitant to charge African Americans with hate crimes towards whites, because of the media and NAACP backlash, not to mention civil rights leaders Reverend Al and Jesse Jackson. Both of which have both been quoted as saying Anti-Semitic remarks, however not in private. Hate crime charges by blacks onto other minorities like jews or caucasians is unreported. Nobody's hands are clean. Knock-out game ring a bell? The media calls it a game, meanwhile in actuality it is a violent assault not to mention likely racially motivated.

The narrative the media likes to perpetuate is one of continued if not increased racism and bigotry becoming exposed. Meanwhile I think it's safe to say America is less racist and discriminatory now than it ever was ten, twenty, thirty, forty and fifty years ago. Not saying it's perfect, there is plenty of room for improvement. Although it'll never be perfect and the sins of the past will probably ensure that unfortunate reality.

I think you're confusing African-American culture with the effects of poverty. The Thug/Gangster-Mentality you speak of is not exclusive to african-americans but can be commonly found in areas of great poverty and can include ethnic groups such as (but are not limited to) Latin-Americans, Asian-Americans and even Caucasian's of european decent.

What I'm trying to say is, by pointing to a Socio-Economical issue within an ethnic group (which, by the way isn't exclusive to that group) and claiming that it is part of their culture is just a teensy bit racist. I'm only really pointing this out because I can partially agree with your concluding statement where we (as a global community) are becoming less racist.

It's just that, you come at the conclusion the wrong way. I mean at one point you were arguing that 'reverse' racism (which is just racism btw) was prevalent and went unreported. How does this help your point that racism is diminishing in north america. Why is it relevant to your argument.

TL:DR - Organize your ideas better, and stop taking boondocks literally it's meant as a parody .

I never said the socio-economic issue or thug mentality was strictly black, I understand it exists in all races and cultures. However it is still more predominate in the black culture, does this come as a shock to you? What rock have you lived under, check the FBI crime breakdown and racial component to see how disproportionately blacks are represented as offenders and victims of violent crime, particularly murder.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expandhomicidemain

Blacks are killing blacks at a prolific rate, which needs to stop. I'm just shedding light on the medias bias against accusing blacks of racially motivated hate crimes against whites and other minority groups. If you do a little research you might inform yourself.

It's relevant as far as the double standard is concerned, things have shifted the other direction. America is still less racist now than it ever was, but I was addressing the racially motivated crimes by blacks against whites is still a 'knockout game' or whatever else they wanna call it.

[Harold_and_Kumar]

Well obviously poverty and underprivileged schools plays a large part in the cycle of poverty, crime and deviant behavior. However, there are a lot of opportunities afforded to minorities especially black and hispanic who excel in school and work and are taken above similiar and sometimes more qualified caucasians or less sympathetic minority groups (i.e. affirmative action). Yes blacks in america and native americans are targeted and legislation has passed which discriminates the underprivileged, primary those two minorities.

However, the biggest elephant in the room is the African American culture. Which has become distorted from the values and ideals of civil rights, freedoms, peaceful disobedience, forgiveness and understanding beset by Martin Luther King, into a gangster or thug mentality wherein some young blacks get sucked into. One where there is a lot of hesitation in reporting violent crime for fear of being labelled a 'snitch' and face possible repercussions as a result isn't helping things. And the resentment and anger towards whites from the horrors of slavery and segregation still very fresh in the minds and hearts of some African Americans. Whether that's right or wrong, nevertheless still exists. The media does nothing but stir the pot, MSNBC has Reverend Al Sharpton who in my opinion is a race baiter and ambulance chaser. Nothing more than a pariah to the black community that knows a thing or two about living in real subjugation and disenfranchisement, also know that a significant part of the problem is the willingness to give into the pitfalls of criminality in the black culture.

I'm not saying there isn't a lot of racism and bigotry in America, although one side sells and the other doesn't. The white guilt of subjugating the blacks has permeated those who have no responsibility for it. So it sells, furthermore the justice system seems very hesitant to charge African Americans with hate crimes towards whites, because of the media and NAACP backlash, not to mention civil rights leaders Reverend Al and Jesse Jackson. Both of which have both been quoted as saying Anti-Semitic remarks, however not in private. Hate crime charges by blacks onto other minorities like jews or caucasians is unreported. Nobody's hands are clean. Knock-out game ring a bell? The media calls it a game, meanwhile in actuality it is a violent assault not to mention likely racially motivated.

The narrative the media likes to perpetuate is one of continued if not increased racism and bigotry becoming exposed. Meanwhile I think it's safe to say America is less racist and discriminatory now than it ever was ten, twenty, thirty, forty and fifty years ago. Not saying it's perfect, there is plenty of room for improvement. Although it'll never be perfect and the sins of the past will probably ensure that unfortunate reality.

I think you're confusing African-American culture with the effects of poverty. The Thug/Gangster-Mentality you speak of is not exclusive to african-americans but can be commonly found in areas of great poverty and can include ethnic groups such as (but are not limited to) Latin-Americans, Asian-Americans and even Caucasian's of european decent.

What I'm trying to say is, by pointing to a Socio-Economical issue within an ethnic group (which, by the way isn't exclusive to that group) and claiming that it is part of their culture is just a teensy bit racist. I'm only really pointing this out because I can partially agree with your concluding statement where we (as a global community) are becoming less racist.

It's just that, you come at the conclusion the wrong way. I mean at one point you were arguing that 'reverse' racism (which is just racism btw) was prevalent and went unreported. How does this help your point that racism is diminishing in north america. Why is it relevant to your argument.

TL:DR - Organize your ideas better, and stop taking boondocks literally it's meant as a parody .

I never said the socio-economic issue or thug mentality was strictly black, I understand it exists in all races and cultures. However it is still more predominate in the black culture, does this come as a shock to you? What rock have you lived under, check the FBI crime breakdown and racial component to see how disproportionately blacks are represented as offenders and victims of violent crime, particularly murder.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expandhomicidemain

Blacks are killing blacks at a prolific rate, which needs to stop. I'm just shedding light on the medias bias against accusing blacks of racially motivated hate crimes against whites and other minority groups. If you do a little research you might inform yourself.

It's relevant as far as the double standard is concerned, things have shifted the other direction. America is still less racist now than it ever was, but I was addressing the racially motivated crimes by blacks against whites is still a 'knockout game' or whatever else they wanna call it.

Honest question, do you understand the difference between an anecdote that occurs very little in comparison to a structured analysis of information using the scientific method which has the potential to produce generalizable results?

It's exactly what clementine (I think) said in that you're making a false equivalency. Yea the media is ripe with problems, yes they are sensationalist, yes they want to make profit from entertainment news, but none of that changes the overwhelming number of injustices of white on black that don't even occur in the criminal realm. Think opportunity, access to resources, connections, lack of wealth, an education system structured for Anglo Caucasians, an unfair justice system, stereotyping, a history of being seen as a lesser person. Name one thing a white male specifically is underprivileged in. You can't, and that's the point. I listed all those off the top of my head, I could write a textbook on one of the topics.

To your point regarding "thuggery" being more apparent in black culture. What non-anecdotal basis do you have for this? Are Mexican cartels not violent? Is Honduras not the murder capital of the world? Are the favelas in Brazil not notorious for crime? I'd like you to define "thug" as a word. I feel as though you're fitting the word to justify a narrative you've predefined.

[CB4Champ]

Lotta good comments in this thread

Yeah I would say that Racism is less then it was.

BUT

Their is still an place for open debate on How Black and Latinos are treated in society. Which is what I enjoyed reading in this thread.

AA's are still disenfranchised people when it comes to things like job opportunity's, how they are perceived by other ethnic groups. And basically How they go about their everyday life. If you don't walk a certain way as an AA, then your ridiculed, Talk a certain way mocked etc. It goes back to culture, and how that culture is viewed. Hip Hop is 1 of the main cultures that others view AA's through, for better or worse. Its that culture of Machismo, Ego, I'm better then you, Money over lively hood etc that is plaguing Many Black Communities and leaves an stigma in the eyes of other races towards blacks.

In the NYC Forum they had a thread on the "Pull Your Damn Pants up" Challenge. Where blacks are told its unbecoming to sag your pants below your ass and think it looks cool, or hip. But sadly, its something that has to be mentioned and even thrown in the face of Blacks, because so many are running around with there pants that low and then wonder, why people stereotype them and why they get pulled over by tha PO PO. Personally I could care less how a person wears their pants, but I can see why people would have a problem with it.

As far as Black on Black crime goes...This is not a problem just plaguing Blacks nor is it something where we can say Black on black is caused only by blacks. White on white crime is an problem, asian on asian crime is an problem and so on. To discuss WHY Blacks are killing themselves..It goes back to my thread I posted, that spoke about the self hate in Black communities perpetuated by the media and its obsession of always showing AA's and other Blacks in negative lights. Soonly, it sinks into the heads of Blacks that they are an Negative people, and that there People's life are less then others. The media rarely shows Blacks with KINKY HAIR on TV especially Woman, Men are on portraying the gangsta life. So the media breeds the self hate and reports on it with "glee". Blacks see this, and no matter what people say...NONE LIKE TO BE HATED. So there mentality gets down casted and depressed, and they lash out at the people that Everyone feels is less then others, themselves. Black on Black crime is built on by how the subliminal attacks by the media shows Blacks in Negative light. Also the gangs and guns found in the Black neighbourhoods got their not by Blacks, but by outside influences. The Gangs are basically used to terrorize the communities and keep the people in an perpetual state of fear. Back in the day, Black youth use to rally together to defend each other and the people in the homes they live in. Now since the hyper sexual age its all about Money, Sex etc. Thats why Black neighborhoods are overrun with shysters who suck it dry and destablize the people for money. The Black Panthers, are an people misrepresented, because they taught Blacks not to trust outsiders yet they get branded as like the KKK as if they ran around just shooting whites. When really, they were about community build up, Blacks weeding out criminals and community Watch. So what happens??? The very people who saw what they represneted, decided to flood the Ghettios with drugs and free guns, arm the thugs, get the people hooked on drugs and have them implode on the inside, and then pretend that there hands are clean. It was an effort to destroy what trust The Panthers were building in Blacks, because they saw it was Affecting OTHER MINORITES IN A GOOD WAY, like the Brown Berets(Chicanos).

The Bible teaches that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but powers, principalities in high and secret places. This targeting came from the top people. How you gonna have Blacks in an Majority White Country, Build up themselves and do for self and be an emblem, or example to other peoples. Gotta cut that off at the head before Others decided to join in the freedom, and thats what they did. Now the Gangs took over(Not all gangs are bad but majority) so now their is No Go's for Blacks and Latinos. If you from this walk, don't let me catch you on that walk, because they will shoot to kill, and this culture of fear is whats peddled in every inner city in Americas. The "My Turf" bull.

Blacks have been the standard of Culture that others have copied the world over, yet people make excuses for how people Take black culture, and then ignore the creators. This happens all the time. Now we see in Sterling etc ingrained hate on Blacks simply because of their color and what they have done in the face of hate. The oppression is real. Even those who make it, are subject to hate based on there color. This all plays into the mentality of Black's to say "Man, Even if I try hard, people are still against me" so many blacks just say why try and give into seducing whispers of the socalled fast life.

I'm tired of all this socalled reverse racism nonsense. Majority of the crimes that Blacks are in jail for, whites get off with an slap on the wrist. Take away the fathers, and leave the woman alone to raise the kids Its something done on purpose again goes back to the Biblical phrase.

The good things now(yes their is Good), Cities like Toronto, can be an symbol on race relations, especially in the Ghettios. Places like Regent Park, have Blacks, Whites, Latinos, Indians, Asians etc who have an unity bond that they rally around each other and work together. Everyone young and old look out for each other and work to build up instead of destroy there own. Violence is decreasing in the city, its still an problem but is not as prevalent, as it was back in the days. Unity is not just interracial marriages or dates, but is the fruit of every ethnic groups love for each other and seeing each other as no different. Its the WALK...You see Blacks and Asian walking together in multi racial groups, Whites and Indians chilling, and it shows in Our Love for The Toronto Raptors and how diverse the group is. All people take part in each others ethnic groups culture. On Caribana, its not an shock to see Chinese Jumping up with the Africans, In Chinese heritage day, its not a surprise to see Latinos and Whites dressed up in the Styles of the Chinese etc. See we as an community build each other up and learn from each other, which is exactly how its supposed to be. The food in the city...You don't gotta go to another country to taste any food you would like. We are multi cultural and accepting of one another. Muslims in tha City live with Christians in peace. Its this that torontonians are supposed to show other cities HOW TO LIVE AND LEARN FROM THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE.

So when I see things like this plaguing America and Chicagos gang violence problem, I just shake my head and wonder why cant they learn, Like we as an city are learning? Its because that society is built on racism and hate, so its institutionalized. Canada is to an extant...Like how the Native Americans are treated, and How Africaville was destroyed in Nova Scotia. But we progress and don't look Back but forward.

So I say Keep doing us T Dot. We are not the 6 but T.O. Tha Good..lets keep that moniker.

[CB4Champ]

I think you're confusing African-American culture with the effects of poverty. The Thug/Gangster-Mentality you speak of is not exclusive to african-americans but can be commonly found in areas of great poverty and can include ethnic groups such as (but are not limited to) Latin-Americans, Asian-Americans and even Caucasian's of european decent.

What I'm trying to say is, by pointing to a Socio-Economical issue within an ethnic group (which, by the way isn't exclusive to that group) and claiming that it is part of their culture is just a teensy bit racist. I'm only really pointing this out because I can partially agree with your concluding statement where we (as a global community) are becoming less racist.

It's just that, you come at the conclusion the wrong way. I mean at one point you were arguing that 'reverse' racism (which is just racism btw) was prevalent and went unreported. How does this help your point that racism is diminishing in north america. Why is it relevant to your argument.

TL:DR - Organize your ideas better, and stop taking boondocks literally it's meant as a parody .

I never said the socio-economic issue or thug mentality was strictly black, I understand it exists in all races and cultures. However it is still more predominate in the black culture, does this come as a shock to you? What rock have you lived under, check the FBI crime breakdown and racial component to see how disproportionately blacks are represented as offenders and victims of violent crime, particularly murder.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expandhomicidemain

Blacks are killing blacks at a prolific rate, which needs to stop. I'm just shedding light on the medias bias against accusing blacks of racially motivated hate crimes against whites and other minority groups. If you do a little research you might inform yourself.

It's relevant as far as the double standard is concerned, things have shifted the other direction. America is still less racist now than it ever was, but I was addressing the racially motivated crimes by blacks against whites is still a 'knockout game' or whatever else they wanna call it.

Honest question, do you understand the difference between an anecdote that occurs very little in comparison to a structured analysis of information using the scientific method which has the potential to produce generalizable results?

It's exactly what clementine (I think) said in that you're making a false equivalency. Yea the media is ripe with problems, yes they are sensationalist, yes they want to make profit from entertainment news, but none of that changes the overwhelming number of injustices of white on black that don't even occur in the criminal realm. Think opportunity, access to resources, connections, lack of wealth, an education system structured for Anglo Caucasians, an unfair justice system, stereotyping, a history of being seen as a lesser person. Name one thing a white male specifically is underprivileged in. You can't, and that's the point. I listed all those off the top of my head, I could write a textbook on one of the topics.

To your point regarding "thuggery" being more apparent in black culture. What non-anecdotal basis do you have for this? Are Mexican cartels not violent? Is Honduras not the murder capital of the world? Are the favelas in Brazil not notorious for crime? I'd like you to define "thug" as a word. I feel as though you're fitting the word to justify a narrative you've predefined.

Great Post Harold, Its like people think being conscious, is by stating that Whites have it hard too, or that Reverse Racism is real and all that junk. Being Conscious, is to understand the struggle of others and putting yourself in their shoes and thinking about the next man. Not saying that Whites struggle too, when the world is geared towards Whites.

[mihaic]

I think a lot of people are going ahead of themselves here.

Someone who has more time than me should look up the definition of racism and then annotate the email to show which parts are clearly non-racist, which are debatable and which are clearly racist.

Atm I have the feeling people don't have a common understanding of racism, business initiatives, candor, etc...

Thanks

[mihaic]

Double post

[lobosloboslobos]

I never rejected any historical context of African American history. I can cite numerous examples of hesitance by the legal system and media to describe black on white crime as racially motivated. Because not all of it is racially motivated, although some of it is and blatant yet under reported. The vast majority of African Americans protesting in Ferguson are law abiding and don't bear a resentment towards whites.

Good god. No clue.

You will respond that my attack is ad hominem blah blah blah because I don't present arguments. But the ignorance in this progression of ideas (literally every single thing in it is deeply confused and the whole is a mirror into a very fearful soul) indicates a degree of immaturity, insularity and egotism that no amount of arguing can hope to undo. Only age and the wisdom it may bring (if you actually risk your self and not just your ideas) can hope to do this. Good luck. You'll need it.