Any other Ravens fans on here ?

[montestewart]

Honestly.. I've seen the vid multiple times since I made this post and each time it gets worse. Anyone who did what Rice did should absolutely see jail time, no question. It's unclear if law enforcement was aware of the video or not (you have to think they were) which makes you wonder how Rice was able to escape without a conviction. If any normal person did that, they'd be seeing jailtime.

The sad thing is in the original press conference, she said "I apologize for my role in the situation"wtf is she apologizing for? Rice is a bully who beats on women, Janay Palmer should not be apologizing for being made a victim. Battered women syndrome is a sad reality.

I think I read somewhere that she was initially charged with 3rd degree assault. Failure to get more serious charges against him may be the result of her lack of cooperation with prosecutors, and the statements in the press conference (and the initial charges against her) may have been part of orchestrated efforts to reduce his charges. Sounds like some BWS to me.

[FreeBalling]

There is a new commissioner coming to the NFL.

If the man with the power
Can't keep it under control
Some heads are gonna roll
Some heads are gonna roll


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDYFgaAq8Ww[/youtube]

[Nivek]

That video was horrifying. Rice deserved a MUCH stiffer penalty than the 2 games he initially got.

But, the NFL and the Ravens have bungled this thing about as badly as something can be bungled. It's unbelievable that they didn't watch the video before announcing the 2-game suspension. If they didn't, it's evidence of gross incompetence. If they did, it's evidence of gross incompetence and dishonesty. And, confirmation that the NFL had the video in April indicates that it's the latter.

While it might have been uncomfortable to do so, the NFL and the Ravens needed to abide by its earlier ruling -- whether they'd reviewed the video or not. There was nothing on the video that provided new information. We already knew Rice had punched his fiance and knocked her unconscious. The video was awful, but...not new information.

I think the indefinite suspension and cutting him makes them look cowardly, capricious and heavy-handed. Not to mention dishonest and incompetent. If they didn't see the video...well, that's just absurd. It's the NFL. They have great lawyers, elite investigators, DEEP pockets, and extensive contacts everywhere. That TMZ could get it where they couldn't is just preposterous. Except, of course, the NFL DID have the video back in April.

But, again...even if for some bizarre reason Goodell and his advisers didn't review the video, they STILL had every piece of information they could have gleaned from reviewing the video. Because Rice and his fiance/wife TOLD them what happened. To come in now and punish him further is...well...absurd.

If I was an NFL owner, I'd start by firing Goodell. Then I'd fire everyone who advised him on this matter. I don't think they could have handled this any worse if they'd sat down and planned a "worst response" scenario.

[montestewart]

That video was horrifying. Rice deserved a MUCH stiffer penalty than the 2 games he initially got.

But, the NFL and the Ravens have bungled this thing about as badly as something can be bungled. It's unbelievable that they didn't watch the video before announcing the 2-game suspension. If they didn't, it's evidence of gross incompetence. If they did, it's evidence of gross incompetence and dishonesty. And, confirmation that the NFL had the video in April indicates that it's the latter.

While it might have been uncomfortable to do so, the NFL and the Ravens needed to abide by its earlier ruling -- whether they'd reviewed the video or not. There was nothing on the video that provided new information. We already knew Rice had punched his fiance and knocked her unconscious. The video was awful, but...not new information.

I think the indefinite suspension and cutting him makes them look cowardly, capricious and heavy-handed. Not to mention dishonest and incompetent. If they didn't see the video...well, that's just absurd. It's the NFL. They have great lawyers, elite investigators, DEEP pockets, and extensive contacts everywhere. That TMZ could get it where they couldn't is just preposterous. Except, of course, the NFL DID have the video back in April.

But, again...even if for some bizarre reason Goodell and his advisers didn't review the video, they STILL had every piece of information they could have gleaned from reviewing the video. Because Rice and his fiance/wife TOLD them what happened. To come in now and punish him further is...well...absurd.

If I was an NFL owner, I'd start by firing Goodell. Then I'd fire everyone who advised him on this matter. I don't think they could have handled this any worse if they'd sat down and planned a "worst response" scenario.

I could see NFL lawyers advising against using a video if it was improperly obtained, but the bolded above is significant. The video doesn't seem to show anything that wasn't already known. The new punishment looks like a CYA reaction to public outcry, rather than to the act itself. It seems an odd and mixed message that could be construed as "don't get caught on camera."

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

That is the message. Twofold: Don't get caught, especially not on camera.

I think Ray and Janay Rice are both tough customers. She hit, cursed, spit at, and ultimately got knocked out. And in dysfunctional, crazy-love fashion, she's the first to fight for her man. She married him. She said she started the brawl (to save his career, I guess). She's mad at Goodell and the NFL for in so many words ruining what her best friend "worked his ass off" for.

My view is that Goodell didn't want to see the original video. Had he been a good leader he would have suspended Ray Rice indefinitely, pending completion of several criteria, and reinstated him after about 6 to 8 games. The knee jerk reaction is capricious (great word, Nivek) and self-seeking. They don't care at all about anything but sponsorship, ratings, and CYA. Goodell is eventually going to be forced out. Sooner than later would be my guess.

What the romantic in me hopes is that all this negative publicity shames both Ray and Janay into really making heartfelt, lifelong changes. If they can be tender toward each other and maybe down the road both become counselors themselves would be great. I doubt anything but the worst comes of this but my hope would be they get beyond this. THEY ALREADY HAVE PROCESSED IT. The rest of the world IMO needs to mind their own damned business. They might benefit from him being out of the league. Maybe they'll set a better example for their daughter for the rest of their lives.

[FreeBalling]

If Ray was suspended for 6-8 games, this is not even an issue. The NFL could have donated Ray's paycheck to a charity for domestic abuse.


On another note, I wonder what the make up sex was like.

[LyricalRico]

If Ray was suspended for 6-8 games, this is not even an issue. The NFL could have donated Ray's paycheck to a charity for domestic abuse.

Yep, said the same thing on the previous page. And considering that Goodell had been so heavy handed in the past, why choose this case to suddenly be soft? Regardless of whether he had/didn't have the video or did/didn't see it, he still created this situation IMO by bungling the initial punishment.

[Ruzious]

That is the message. Twofold: Don't get caught, especially not on camera.

I think Ray and Janay Rice are both tough customers. She hit, cursed, spit at, and ultimately got knocked out. And in dysfunctional, crazy-love fashion, she's the first to fight for her man. She married him. She said she started the brawl (to save his career, I guess). She's mad at Goodell and the NFL for in so many words ruining what her best friend "worked his ass off" for.

My view is that Goodell didn't want to see the original video. Had he been a good leader he would have suspended Ray Rice indefinitely, pending completion of several criteria, and reinstated him after about 6 to 8 games. The knee jerk reaction is capricious (great word, Nivek) and self-seeking. They don't care at all about anything but sponsorship, ratings, and CYA. Goodell is eventually going to be forced out. Sooner than later would be my guess.

What the romantic in me hopes is that all this negative publicity shames both Ray and Janay into really making heartfelt, lifelong changes. If they can be tender toward each other and maybe down the road both become counselors themselves would be great. I doubt anything but the worst comes of this but my hope would be they get beyond this. THEY ALREADY HAVE PROCESSED IT. The rest of the world IMO needs to mind their own damned business. They might benefit from him being out of the league. Maybe they'll set a better example for their daughter for the rest of their lives.

What she did - at her size/strength was barely more than the equivalent of tickling him with a feather. The lesson is NOT don't get caught. The lesson is don't do it.

I agree with you 100% on Goodell.

[Liverbird]

What surprises me is that there isn't a greater outcry to ban/cut/penalize Greg Hardy (Carolina) and Ray McDonald (49ers) and the teams/NFL's handling of their respective issues....and the absolute ignorance of the 49ers for suspending the broadcaster for insensitive comments. Yes - Ray Rice is the story right now - but the bigger picture is much more important. One (of many) thing that bothers me is the sheer hypocrisy of this entire situation.

I understand that there cannot be retroactive punishment but I would think the change agents would want to put each team and the NFL to task on those counts.

[LyricalRico]

What surprises me is that there isn't a greater outcry to ban/cut/penalize Greg Hardy (Carolina) and Ray McDonald (49ers) and the teams/NFL's handling of their respective issues....and the absolute ignorance of the 49ers for suspending the broadcaster for insensitive comments. Yes - Ray Rice is the story right now - but the bigger picture is much more important. One (of many) thing that bothers me is the sheer hypocrisy of this entire situation.

I understand that there cannot be retroactive punishment but I would think the change agents would want to put each team and the NFL to task on those counts.

+1

Good quote from Mike Wise (can't believe I'm saying that):

As usual, the deck is stacked so that any transgression at the top becomes viewed through the prism of mostly white, wealthy conservatives, who see profit as king and anything that stands in its way a general nuisance.

But after the annual $9 billion in revenue, they can’t get around these numbers. In almost nine years with Goodell as commissioner, 56 players have been arrested on charges of domestic violence, some multiple times. Those players have lost just 13 games combined.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

This just hasn't been important enough of an issue to the NFL, as unfortunately is the case with many corners of our society. Let's see of the events of this week change that.

[Nivek]

What surprises me is that there isn't a greater outcry to ban/cut/penalize Greg Hardy (Carolina) and Ray McDonald (49ers) and the teams/NFL's handling of their respective issues....and the absolute ignorance of the 49ers for suspending the broadcaster for insensitive comments. Yes - Ray Rice is the story right now - but the bigger picture is much more important. One (of many) thing that bothers me is the sheer hypocrisy of this entire situation.

I understand that there cannot be retroactive punishment but I would think the change agents would want to put each team and the NFL to task on those counts.

+1

Good quote from Mike Wise (can't believe I'm saying that):

As usual, the deck is stacked so that any transgression at the top becomes viewed through the prism of mostly white, wealthy conservatives, who see profit as king and anything that stands in its way a general nuisance.

But after the annual $9 billion in revenue, they can’t get around these numbers. In almost nine years with Goodell as commissioner, 56 players have been arrested on charges of domestic violence, some multiple times. Those players have lost just 13 games combined.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

This just hasn't been important enough of an issue to the NFL, as unfortunately is the case with many corners of our society. Let's see of the events of this week change that.

A pretty typically superficial "analysis" by Wise.

So, 56 in 9 years comes to roughly 6 domestic violence incidents per year. I don't know the exact number of NFL players during that span, but 60 per team per year seems about right -- 1920 players. Average career is 3-4 years, so let's estimate the NFL "population" during that time span at say 5,000.

That comes to a rate of 1.2 domestic violence "incidents" per 1,000 NFL players.

Care to hazard a guess at the domestic violence rate in the general population:

Spoiler:

Approximately 4.7 per 1,000.

In other words, if there's a woman whose sole criterion when looking for a boyfriend/fiance/husband is avoiding domestic violence, she might be wise to choose an NFL player.

Domestic violence is a serious problem, but the overall data indicates we've been having remarkable success as a society in reducing it. According to a DOJ report, domestic violence against women has fallen roughly 70% since 1994.

I was surprised to see that players lost only 13 games to suspension due to domestic violence. Especially with Roger "The Punisher" Goodell as judge and jury.

[LyricalRico]

I was surprised to see that players lost only 13 games to suspension due to domestic violence. Especially with Roger "The Punisher" Goodell as judge and jury.

This was mostly what I was trying to get at. As tough as he's been on literally EVERYTHING else, why choose this one area to basically do nothing by comparison? In my mind, it's not about the prevalence but more about the NFL apparently not thinking that it's a big deal.

Thanks for the additional stats.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I thought that Ray Rice was not punished enough the first time. It certainly could have been an 8 game suspension or longer. I'm actually not that shocked what I've seen from the video. Ray Rice's fiance did hit him and the response was disproportionate. If people are glad that the Ravens took a stand now, IMO they should have been upset that they didn't cut ties with Rice before.

That being said, it isn't healthy for either side to hit each other. One of my friends broke up with his fiance because she was hitting him regularly and it was better to separate rather than getting in a much bigger altercation.

I wouldn't even call what she did hitting him - it didn't have enough force - and it looked like he did the same before she "hit" him. There's no rationalizing what he did - in any way. If she was clawing at his face or kicking him in the groin, I'd could see some people defending him, but she did basically nothing.

We're going to disagree on this point.

I think she was aggressive and emotions were heated both ways.

That Rice responded inappropriately is not even a matter of contention.

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[montestewart]

I thought that Ray Rice was not punished enough the first time. It certainly could have been an 8 game suspension or longer. I'm actually not that shocked what I've seen from the video. Ray Rice's fiance did hit him and the response was disproportionate. If people are glad that the Ravens took a stand now, IMO they should have been upset that they didn't cut ties with Rice before.

That being said, it isn't healthy for either side to hit each other. One of my friends broke up with his fiance because she was hitting him regularly and it was better to separate rather than getting in a much bigger altercation.

I wouldn't even call what she did hitting him - it didn't have enough force - and it looked like he did the same before she "hit" him. There's no rationalizing what he did - in any way. If she was clawing at his face or kicking him in the groin, I'd could see some people defending him, but she did basically nothing.

We're going to disagree on this point.

I think she was aggressive and emotions were heated both ways.

That Rice responded inappropriately is not even a matter of contention.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

I worked in a bar for years and saw quite a few couple fights (and alcohol sure played a part). I observed a certain kind of escalation that to me falls far more on the male's shoulders than on the female's shoulders, and that is the implied or even stated reality that the male is bigger and stronger and can hurt the female. That is, a stated or implied reality that if the female crosses a certain line, she will be hit. That line might be hitting, spitting, mouthing of, or something else, but it is kind of chilling to see that element in play in male-female confrontations.

I've had to intervene in some pretty messy disputes that I would rather not have been a part of, and I'm not defending obnoxious behavior coming from a woman. Where superior male strength and ability to inflict physical harm is an often unspoken final arbiter of disputes, it's not a level playing field between the man and the woman, from the very beginning. You might think that implied threat would act as a pacifier, but I've seen it do the exact opposite, provoking and escalating situations, with the weaker party lashing out in frustration.

I don't work in a bar anymore. It generally wasn't a very happy place.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

It will be interesting to see how Ray Rice's appeal of his indefinite suspension goes.

Janay Rice would no doubt feel better if Ray got his job back. She was the victim. Seems to me she deserves him being back in the league.

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[Nivek]

The NFL will apparently assert there was stuff in the video that didn't match what Rice told them about the incident. I think they'll have two significant problems with that:

1. There's evidence they had the video before they made their ruling.
2. The basic facts were well established -- namely that RIce punched his fiance and knocked her unconscious.

I just don't see what was on the video that differed in any meaningful way from what was known when Goodell imposed the two-game suspension.

My guess is that Rice will (and should) win his appeal. The indefinite suspension and the release will be deemed a sort of "double jeopardy" -- punished twice for the same crime. Rice will be reinstated and will probably collect some financial damages from the league and/or Ravens. I don't think he'll ever play in the NFL again, however.

[montestewart]

The NFL will apparently assert there was stuff in the video that didn't match what Rice told them about the incident. I think they'll have two significant problems with that:

1. There's evidence they had the video before they made their ruling.
2. The basic facts were well established -- namely that RIce punched his fiance and knocked her unconscious.

I just don't see what was on the video that differed in any meaningful way from what was known when Goodell imposed the two-game suspension.

My guess is that Rice will (and should) win his appeal. The indefinite suspension and the release will be deemed a sort of "double jeopardy" -- punished twice for the same crime. Rice will be reinstated and will probably collect some financial damages from the league and/or Ravens. I don't think he'll ever play in the NFL again, however.

If the old Raiders were still around, he might still have a taker. I don't know enough about the NFL to speculate beyond that.