The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread

[EwingSweatsALot]

Nice work Ewing.

I put a little effort into trying to find stats on how often McBob was assisted by Al on his right wing 3's, but couldn't find anything and gave up.

I have always wished that their would be more stats for assists, SportsVU might have some that aren't for public knowledge though.

I've always wanted to know, who the player has assisted to, how much better do they shoot when this person assists to them versus not, where on the court to they get their most assists, average assist pass distance, how often do they get the ball to a guy in his favorite spot.

Assists are somewhat of an arbitrary number. Yeah there is basis behind them, but it can be at the scorer's discretion, it's why some people say Stockton has so many because the Jazz just handed them out left and right. So with that said, I don't know if you can use assists to determine who is a better passer and facilitator. If a guy averages 9 assists and the other guy averages 7 assists, but the 7 assists guy gets the ball to his teammates in better spots and they shoot better when he assists them compared to the 9 assist guy who really is a better passer?

[SWedd523]

Good work on that research Ewing, it definitely allays some of my concerns regarding their effective spots, but at the bare minimum, his efficiency doesn't seem too effected. Would you mind sharing the raw makes/attempts so we can see if the lack of spacing made it more difficult to simply get shots off more so than clean looks?

[EwingSweatsALot]

Good work on that research Ewing, it definitely allays some of my concerns regarding their effective spots, but at the bare minimum, his efficiency doesn't seem too effected. Would you mind sharing the raw makes/attempts so we can see if the lack of spacing made it more difficult to simply get shots off more so than clean looks?

Here are the attempts, in parenthesis is percentage of total 3p shots at that spot

LC
13-14- 38 (16.5%)
12-13- 40 (24.1%)
11-12- 42 (28.4%)

LW
13-14- 77 (33.5%)
12-13- 24 (14.5%)
11-12- 26 (17.6%)

TOP
13-14- 35 (15.2%)
12-13- 25 (15.1%)
11-12- 11 (7.4%)

RW
[i]13-14[/i]- 63 (27.4%)
12-13- 45 (27.1%)
11-12- 32 (21.6%)

RC
13-14- 17 (7.4%)
12-13- 32 (19.3%)
11-12- 37 (25.0%)

This does show some cause for concern based on attempts at each spot and what would be expected of Williams with Jefferson. His right was increased with Jefferson where his left was decreased. It's not a Huge difference for his first year with out Al to being with Al, but going for 12-13 to 13-14 it went heavy on that left wing.

That then could possibly lead to more of Williams on the right wing. My issue with that is that he still shoots really well with Jefferson on the left side. He is capable of doing it. Why move him to the right a lot when you already have a guy that can shoot from there. Can he get shots off? I don't know. I would hope to think so, but your thought process could come to fruition with it being difficult for him to get shots off from there.

[EwingSweatsALot]

Nice work Ewing.

I put a little effort into trying to find stats on how often McBob was assisted by Al on his right wing 3's, but couldn't find anything and gave up.

FOUND IT!!!

Excuse my excitement. If you goto a players page on NBA.com and click there stats then sort by shooting on the far right it gives a list of how many times a player assisted him. You can click the number to bring up a shot chart.

Al only assisted a McRoberts 3 on the left side once all year. 1 assist on 21 made 3s from the LC and LW (4.8%). He assisted on 6 of McRoberts 36 made 3s from the right side (16.7%). Also McRoberts shot 34% of his threes from the right and just 27.1% from the left. This is somewhat concerning on the theory of Williams being on the left side with Al.

Now, McRoberts was just horrendous from the left side (26.6% 3P%), he shot 36.4% from the right. This could be part of the thought process. Williams shoots almost 15% better from the left side than McRoberts. Williams also shot well from the top like McRoberts does and Al assisted on 15% of his made shots there.

The one thing these stats don't show is how many assist opportunities Jefferson had with McRoberts, that would give us a better idea on how it worked for them.

It will be interesting to see how this works. Shot locations point towards the tendency to shoot more on the right. Shooting percentages point toward the ability to be able to shoot from the left side well. I feel if you take Williams to the right side then you are taking him out of his best area and then you take Kemba and Stephenson away from their best areas. Like I said before, it will be really interesting to see what Clifford does with this set of guys. I can't wait.

[EwingSweatsALot]

As I continue to ramble in this thread about Marvin and Al, I looked at how they paired when they were in Utah.

Al assisted on 11.1% of Marvin's threes (only 6 total). All, but one were on the left side or middle.

[chabber]

Nice work Ewing.

I put a little effort into trying to find stats on how often McBob was assisted by Al on his right wing 3's, but couldn't find anything and gave up.

FOUND IT!!!

Excuse my excitement. If you goto a players page on NBA.com and click there stats then sort by shooting on the far right it gives a list of how many times a player assisted him. You can click the number to bring up a shot chart.

Great job, it's very interesting. I'd imagine Marvin really wouldn't get many opportunities from the left corner on direct assists from Big Al mainly because he'll be on that side as well, similar to what Swedd suggested. I'd say he's much more likely be open from the ball swinging from the other side while his man is helping down on Al instead.

I'd like to see how you got these assisted baskets and I'm feeling kind of dumb because I can't get there. After going to the "Stats" category on the players page, can you explain it again? How do you sort "Shooting". Or am I missing something?

[EwingSweatsALot]

Nice work Ewing.

I put a little effort into trying to find stats on how often McBob was assisted by Al on his right wing 3's, but couldn't find anything and gave up.

FOUND IT!!!

Excuse my excitement. If you goto a players page on NBA.com and click there stats then sort by shooting on the far right it gives a list of how many times a player assisted him. You can click the number to bring up a shot chart.

Great job, it's very interesting. I'd imagine Marvin really wouldn't get many opportunities from the left corner on direct assists from Big Al mainly because he'll be on that side as well, similar to what Swedd suggested. I'd say he's much more likely be open from the ball swinging from the other side while his man is helping down on Al instead.

I'd like to see how you got these assisted baskets and I'm feeling kind of dumb because I can't get there. After going to the "Stats" category on the players page, can you explain it again? How do you sort "Shooting". Or am I missing something?

So NBA.com and any players page. You have tabs that say Profile, Stats Profile, Stats, etc.

Click Stats. Then there are five sections for filters. The far left one, I believe is General Splits, click it and change it to shooting. That pulls up all the players shot attempts from distances and what not. On the far right is how many assists from each player. Click the number of assists and then shot chart for the assists shot chart.


Also, I agree traditionally it would be best from the weaker side. The thought process just came from Marvin being better on the left and Stephenson being better on the right, so how would that and could that work with Marvin on the left if that is what we do so that they are in their optimal positions on the court to shoot. It will just be interesting to see how we all work this out throughout the course of the year and what steps we take to optimize our offense.

[chabber]

FOUND IT!!!

Excuse my excitement. If you goto a players page on NBA.com and click there stats then sort by shooting on the far right it gives a list of how many times a player assisted him. You can click the number to bring up a shot chart.

Great job, it's very interesting. I'd imagine Marvin really wouldn't get many opportunities from the left corner on direct assists from Big Al mainly because he'll be on that side as well, similar to what Swedd suggested. I'd say he's much more likely be open from the ball swinging from the other side while his man is helping down on Al instead.

I'd like to see how you got these assisted baskets and I'm feeling kind of dumb because I can't get there. After going to the "Stats" category on the players page, can you explain it again? How do you sort "Shooting". Or am I missing something?

So NBA.com and any players page. You have tabs that say Profile, Stats Profile, Stats, etc.

Click Stats. Then there are five sections for filters. The far left one, I believe is General Splits, click it and change it to shooting. That pulls up all the players shot attempts from distances and what not. On the far right is how many assists from each player. Click the number of assists and then shot chart for the assists shot chart.


Also, I agree traditionally it would be best from the weaker side. The thought process just came from Marvin being better on the left and Stephenson being better on the right, so how would that and could that work with Marvin on the left if that is what we do so that they are in their optimal positions on the court to shoot. It will just be interesting to see how we all work this out throughout the course of the year and what steps we take to optimize our offense.

I completely missed the first column to sort from. Duh. I kept looking through the filters, instead of it, and then moving on to the second column etc...Thanks for the info again! Now that I know how to find it, it'll definitely be fun to see what coach does with the offense to try and set guys up in their hot spots as the season progresses.

[LamarMatic7]

haha. just found out that Marv's full name is Marvin Gaye Williams. so cool. a play on this needs to be the name of the thread.

[fatlever]

how about my favorite marvin gaye song "ego trippin'"

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYWeDAviTBI[/youtube]

that groove is nasty

here's another underrated song, "praise" from that same obscure album "once in a lifetime (1981)"

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhhxYJ9WOa8[/youtube]

ego trippin - the marvin gaye williams thread

and the obvious other choices
sexual healing - the marvin gaye williams thread
let's get it on - the marvin gaye williams thread
what's going on? - the marvin gaye williams thread
trouble man - the marvin gaye williams thread

[JDR720]

The Prince of Buzz City: The Marvin Gaye Williams Thread

A play on Marvin Gaye's nickname of "The Prince of Soul"

[JDR720]

http://www.nba.com/hornets/hornets-opti ... ms-9/22/14

[vorbis]

Got To Heave It Up

[LamarMatic7]

Got To Heave It Up

haha, good one. I like this one.

[fatlever]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/1 ... lotte.html

bonnell on marvin

[Benjamin Linus]

Wasn't a fan of the signing, but if Williams has a great year from beyond the arc then I'll be a little more cool with it. McBob is roughly the same age and had a career year from downtown last season, just blew away any of his previous years. It's super obvious that we want shooting from our PF spot and Marvin seems to know his role.

[Snidely FC]

I don't understand all this lip service about Marvin Williams being brought in to stretch the floor. The guy shot 35% from 3 last season, league average and the same as Hendo, who we all excoriate for being a poor 3 pt shooter. In 9 yrs in the league, Williams shot better than that from 3 once with ATL in '11, otherwise last yr - a contract year - was his best shooting yr. The yr before that he shot 32%! I don't get all the fuss about him being a 3 pt shooter.

[LamarMatic7]

I don't understand all this lip service about Marvin Williams being brought in to stretch the floor. The guy shot 35% from 3 last season, league average and the same as Hendo, who we all excoriate for being a poor 3 pt shooter. In 9 yrs in the league, Williams shot better than that from 3 once with ATL in '11, otherwise last yr - a contract year - was his best shooting yr. The yr before that he shot 32%! I don't get all the fuss about him being a 3 pt shooter.

It seems like the FO was set on signing a power forward who can shoot threes. I mean, there weren't many better guys out there available. I suppose we could have been interested in Channing Frye but he signed for way more money. Marcus Morris would have to be an over-pay as well since I don't see him leaving his brother, especially when they both got good deals.

I don't remember what was the situation with Mike Scott, who I kind of like, but he's probably too unproven for us to pursue him for the starting position.

And then there were plenty of average power forwards who changed teams, yet can't shoot that far out. I wouldn't have agreed with going after DeJuan Blair, Trevor Booker or Humphries for the starting role.

I guess, a valid point would be bringing up McBob and asking why couldn't have we re-signed him and kept some of the continuity of the roster. Seems like the answer would be that we're eye-ing that 2016 summer and rather wanted someone on a 2-year deal, that the FO consider Marvin a bigger threat from the 3 and that Stephenson can replace some of that magic of creating offense that McBob had.

[yosemiteben]

I don't understand all this lip service about Marvin Williams being brought in to stretch the floor. The guy shot 35% from 3 last season, league average and the same as Hendo, who we all excoriate for being a poor 3 pt shooter. In 9 yrs in the league, Williams shot better than that from 3 once with ATL in '11, otherwise last yr - a contract year - was his best shooting yr. The yr before that he shot 32%! I don't get all the fuss about him being a 3 pt shooter.

Henderson's problem isn't that he can't shoot from outside, it's that he refuses to. He constantly passes up three to either pull up a midrange j or pass off to someone else to make something happen.

[BeesWax]

I don't understand all this lip service about Marvin Williams being brought in to stretch the floor. The guy shot 35% from 3 last season, league average and the same as Hendo, who we all excoriate for being a poor 3 pt shooter. In 9 yrs in the league, Williams shot better than that from 3 once with ATL in '11, otherwise last yr - a contract year - was his best shooting yr. The yr before that he shot 32%! I don't get all the fuss about him being a 3 pt shooter.

Position. Williams plays PF and Hendo plays SG. Getting a guy who can both shoot 35% from 3 and average around 5 rebounds a game at the PF spot is a bit rare. I was messing with the NBA.com stats and found only 5 guys who spent much time at PF who shot better than him from 3 and averaged 5 rebounds a game. It is not that he is an amazing shooter for the NBA it is that he is a good shooter for his position who also can do the other parts of the job at PF. Henderson plays a spot where you expect either shooting or dribbling and he is not particularly adept at either of those skills.